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TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8

[Serious] In sticky situation with a merchant, not sure what to

I am currently in a pickle and I'm not sure what to do or what recourse I have.

I purchased a video card from a major online retailer on January 26th. I received it on January 30th. During the week-end, the card broke while I was gaming. The card wouldn't even post or the fan spin. Total cost for the card was 516$. I paid via Interac online (should have paid with my credit card... huge mistake).

I opened a RMA request, ship it back to the retailer (whom I've been using for about 10 years) on February 4th and wait. They received it on February 6th. Two days later, I get a message that the card was physically damaged and that it is not covered by warranty. Their explanation: they opened the card and found a residue "consistent with liquid cooling use".

The thing is, I never watercooled this card at all. I used it for three days and left the stock cooler on at all times. I haven't watercooled a GPU in years. I've built PCs for over a decade, I know a DOA card when I see one. Their excuse is bollocks.

Now NCIX is refusing to cooperate, they have the card, and I have no leverage.

Surely something that was purchased and broke within three days of use HAS to be covered by some law, somewhere? I called my bank, they said there's nothing they can do.

Last time I had a problem like this was years ago (happened once). I was with RBC at the time and had paid with a debit card (but a Visa Debit Card). I was able to open a dispute. The bank refunded me the money, and I shipped back the faulty product to the manufacturer who refused to cooperate (it had broken after 9 days). TD Canada says this is not an option with them since they can only dispute unauthorized transactions.

Am I fooked?



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

Re: [Serious] In sticky situation with a merchant, not sure what

Demand NCIX send it back to you and then do a manufacturer RMA. Pay the shipping costs if NCIX requires it, but they're not allowed to keep the card (that's theft).
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to TigerLord

What happens if the manufacturer pulls the same stunt?


Mango
What router are you using?
Premium
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net
kudos:12

Start a thread on the NCIX forums, if you haven't already. At the very least, your situation will be looked at by management.



Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to TigerLord

Most Manufacturers will look at your record and send you a card even if it's split in half... They want you buying more.

If they refuse to return it, you have your reciept, you can open a complaint against the retailer with the maker of the card, they really HATE it when retailers play those games.
--
»www.codecipher.com - Marking the way to tomorrow's solutions -- Did you know that Perl is not Dead? »perlisalive.org/



TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to TigerLord

I plan on contacting NCIX management but I need to have all the information and options in hand if I am going to be in a strong negotiating position.

For all I know this is just a goon employee who's following the protocol, I haven't made a huge fuss so far about it. NCIX says they contacted the manufacturer to see if they'd take it back. Haven't heard a thing in a week, and I checked the Consumer Protection Office website and the the delays for intervening are very specific. I'm concerned they're making me wait so these delays are passed so I have no official recourse.

This is a Zotac GTX680 4GB too, which is a niche product. I currently have two Zotac GTX680 4GB in SLI and they're registered on Zotac's website. Hopefully this plays in my favor.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia

What is there to "negotiate' the card is under warranty and as consumer you have rights. go up there, get the card back and open an RMA with Zotac.

Make sure you bad mouth NCIX in every forum, anywhere you can A happy customer may tell a few friends, a pissed off one will tell many.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......



I_H8_Spam

join:2004-03-10
St Catharines, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

I paid via Interac online (should have paid with my credit card... huge mistake).

If online always use a card with protections.

Was the card completely new? I not a recert? Zotac does have a watercooler line of products, but honestly I think NCIX is fud on that.

Start with a chronological post on NCIX, take pictures of your open cpu tower. Explain explicitly that you have never water cooled, so their finding has to be manufacturing defect or corruption in the supply (ncix)

If they still tell you to pound sand:

»www.bbb.org/mbc/business-reviews···c-136226

Also check your province for a consumer, in ontario: »www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/C···ile.aspx
--
AFK: Attack, fight, kill!! The healer is telling you to go pull mobs.
WTF: Way to fight! The healer is applauding your tactical genius


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8

Card was completely new, not a refurb.

My PC is watercooled, but just the CPU. I use RO water. In this outdated picture I had added a few drops of red food additive for coloring, but when the card broke it was pure RO water that ran through the res.

NCIX claims they found a thick black residue inside the card. If my res had leaked, it would be been water which would have dried out, and the leak would have damaged everything else. There is no liquid cooling solution that leaves residues behind like they described. It's obvious the "Product Support Specialist" is a nub.

Whatever this residue is, it didn't come from the inside of my rig.



Shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to TigerLord

I don't have any magic answer for you TL, but if what you are stating is true then the merchant is "misrepresenting" the issue, which is covered by the OPC.

But seriously, it wouldn't take much for the merchant to fix the card up to make it look like what he stated (or maybe they even sold you some used and returned one). Who knows.

The OPC invites people to call them to discuss the issue and open complaint files. Maybe you should call the first chance you get and follow their directions?

Montreal office:
514 253-6556



Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to TigerLord

Isn't that card shrouded? Why is NCIX ripping it apart, wouldn't it void the warranty by them doing that?

I am unimpressed with their lethargic customer service, you need to keep bugging them daily just to get results, otherwise they will just let things drag on for MONTHS!



koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

1 recommendation

reply to TigerLord

Perhaps the card was a returned item where the first user had it in a liquid cooler. Other wise some manufacturers will use an underfill epoxy adhesive to bond chips to the PCB to improve reliability.

»www.henkel.com/csp-underfills-27435.htm

Perhaps your support specialist may have mistaken this epoxy for some contamination



J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..

1 recommendation

reply to TigerLord

OH MAN! My rule is anything that I'm not willing to give up automatically goes to MasterCard. I use CapitalOne and disputes are filed online and you get your money back within 48 hours. Came in handy when a seller on eBay never shipped the item..until the chargeback got to them.

Hope you can work things out.

BTW: My bank called me yesterday, and I do believe you can link your checking account with your MasterCard. Not sure if all banks are doing that, but it seems to be a feature, and it's supposed to give you the same protection...supposed to..I'll still use MasterCard for my larger purchases though.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein



koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to TigerLord

If you look at Zotac website you may be able to RMA it directly with them. You would just pay shipping cost to return it to them. They even mention you must remove mods before return. This implies they wouldnt care even if you used auxiliary cooling as long as you remove it before return. But you should register the device with them within 30 days of purchase.



TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8

said by koira:

If you look at Zotac website you may be able to RMA it directly with them. You would just pay shipping cost to return it to them. They even mention you must remove mods before return. This implies they wouldnt care even if you used auxiliary cooling as long as you remove it before return.

I normally would have dealt with Zotac directly but the card broke after 3 days of use and I had paid for Express RMA insurance with my NCIX purchase, so them treating the situation like this is really bad business.

Looks like the BBB have resolved cases in the past, I may just have to escalate this further with them directly if NCIX comes back to me with more excuses.


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16

Odd would they offer express RMA and then jerk you around when you actually make use of it eh ? Then NCIX seems to be playing difficult for no good reason. If it was me I would try to stay calm , give them one more try then escalate.



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to TigerLord

Be advised that the BBB is more a marketing tool than a consumer advocacy group. 90% of its board members are from businesses, and the organisation "awards" their highest ratings only to the members who have paid their dues.

If you want a better response at this stage, try contacting Zotac itself.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by milnoc:

Be advised that the BBB is more a marketing tool than a consumer advocacy group. 90% of its board members are from businesses, and the organisation "awards" their highest ratings only to the members who have paid their dues.

Ding ding ding ding. If you see a business with an A+ rating, it means they paid for it. The BBB is useless.


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16

You didn't pay your dues yet did you Gone.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

And I never will.



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to TigerLord

NCIX has to be one of the worst places to return things, but this sounds like a case of incompetence unusual even for them. I'd definitely take it up with management, and then if necessary with the Quebec consumer protection agency.

I've returned two things to NCIX, and both were a pain. One was an in-person return to their distribution warehouse where I had picked it up. The couldn't take it back because the genius required to do the "inspection" wasn't in that day. So they sent me to the store a few blocks away, where I had to wait behind a customer who was getting irate because they were refusing to take his item back, too. And when I finally did get them to accept the return, they dinged a 15% restocking fee.

The other item was a monitor on which I had purchased the Express RMA guarantee -- "return for any reason, no questions asked." Well, they took it back, but they asked a LOT of questions -- more like the Spanish Inquisition than a friendly return transaction.
--
I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds. I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. For a time I rest in the grace of the world, and I am free.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by Wolfie00:

The other item was a monitor on which I had purchased the Express RMA guarantee -- "return for any reason, no questions asked." Well, they took it back, but they asked a LOT of questions -- more like the Spanish Inquisition than a friendly return transaction.

See, I had an opposite experience with NCIX when I returned a monitor two summers ago. I had literally no issues at all with the whole process.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8

Maybe that aspect has improved (it was probably 6 years ago) or I just happened to get an obnoxious buffoon. But the 15% restocking and the accusatory "inspection" process -- the same one that seems to have the OP accused of damaging his own card -- is part of their customer-unfriendly policy.

As a counterexample, further to the Kindle discussion in the other thread, I decided to return the regular Kindle as I really preferred the Paperwhite. Amazon's return policy was a model in customer satisfaction. Log in to your account, print out an RMA slip and prepaid shipping label, slap the label on the box, drop in mailbox. Done. Reason for return? That's optional -- if you have something to say about the product, go ahead. About a week later you get an email confirming a full refund. No muss, no fuss. That's the way a consumer business should be run.
--
I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds. I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. For a time I rest in the grace of the world, and I am free.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Yeah, Amazon is certainly one of the better ones.

When I was down at Surfaces there was a social media seminar I went to. They said the number one way to get people to buy online is to offer a hassle-free return policy and pay for the return shipping. They went on and on about Zappos more times than I can count. But it's the truth. Remove the risk and there's no reason people won't do it.

The PC component industry might be able to get away with it because they're dealing with savvy customers would be buying on the Internet no matter what, but this kind of customer service would destroy the online arm of any other type of business.



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8

I think Dell also has their act together as one of the better online businesses, though I can't speak to their return policy as I've never needed to return anything. But their free shipping by Purolator for almost anything is a major plus. They must surely lose money on some of the very small items, especially when on sale, but it's worth it from a uniform customer experience perspective.

One of the big lessons in the consumer business that so many companies seem clueless about is how important it is for the customer to perceive the company as being on their side, "with them" rather than "against them" in dealing with sales and product issues. Most folks readily understand that if you're treated like crap then you will shop somewhere else, but apparently if you make $10 million a year as CEO, some companies require you to throw common sense out the window.
--
I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds. I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. For a time I rest in the grace of the world, and I am free.



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

See, I had an opposite experience with NCIX when I returned a monitor two summers ago. I had literally no issues at all with the whole process.

My two RMA experiences with NCIX were both positive, although I'm not sure if its because I've purchased a pile of stuff from them for me, friends and family or they're just all around good about returns.


neochu

join:2008-12-12
Windsor, ON

1 edit

Its never when things go right that a company gets hit for.

Its when things go wrong and agents/sups make bad/poor judgments about decisions. Their human too and mistakes happen.

Its also how fast the company corrects and compensates for the issue or solidifies the reasons for its decision (such as the coolant residue vs spilled capacitor electrolyte issue with the card the op is dealing with).

I've never had an issue with NCIX, even with pricing discrepancies and sales problems (IE purchasing a component that went cheaper the day after I bought it).

I only had to return a product once because it was a Green LED fan in a box labelled as Blue. So I can't say I've really had that much money involved with errors.



CanadianRip

join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON
reply to TigerLord

Most of these amateur retailers are terrible at negotiating a good returns allowance that would enable them to sweep things like this under the rug.

Why start a retail chain if you don't know the first thing about proper retail practices.



BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to neochu

said by neochu:

Its also how fast the company corrects and compensates for the issue or solidifies the reasons for its decision (such as the coolant residue vs spilled capacitor electrolyte issue with the card the op is dealing with).

that's what i was thinking, busted cap would definitely offline a card and leave some sort of mess.

but the last cap based incident i had was quite loud at 3am. 5year Enermax warranty ftw.

GBerry

join:2011-06-12
Guelph, ON
reply to TigerLord

Had a hard drive that was DOA. Went to the Mississauga store, the return guy put it on a hotswappable external hard drive dock and confirmed it was dead. He then walked over, picked up a new drive, printed out a receipt and I was on my way. No questions asked.

The problem the OP is running into is that whoever processed the return felt that the drive suffered damage from the user. It's unfortunate but all you need to do is push the issue until you get the attention of someone with the power to reverse the decision.

Returns for companies based in the US generally seem to have their act together for customer satisfaction. I purchased new headlights from a company and one died a month later. I went through the RMA process and they sent a shipping label. No fuss. Got a working bulb a week later. Some clothing retailers are even better. If you get a product and it doesn't fit or you don't like it. You can send it back, free of charge. Of course shipping is monumentally cheaper in the US. So it makes sense to offer that level of service.