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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia

The elusive penny

So this week I figured out I've been short changed by about a dime because we don't have the penny any more.

Now before you start shouting "you cheap bastard Elwood", it's not just my dime or nickel but multiply it by millions and think about that number and we've been "penniless' for less then 2 weeks. Imagine how much they'll "profit' after after a few years of no penny.

Not to say there no pennies, I got penny change at bulk barn the other day, they're just not making them anymore,but corporations (just like they've taken advantage of the tax cuts) are pocketing the penny and being unjustly enriched.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
Use debit or credit where possible and if I recall correctly, prices will be adjusted anyway to compensate for the offset.

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
reply to elwoodblues
I actually "made" a dime this week.


Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to elwoodblues
Just wait till the nickle and later dime becomes too costly to make, the same sort of screwage will happen at a somewhat larger scale, however inflation will have very much nullified the value of such coins, and on and on it will go until the dollar has to be redefined or eliminated completely.

Once the mint puts out a five buck coin suspenders will be back in fashion.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues
Did you get short changed? Some of your transactions would have rounded the price down.

Some places like my local dep are still giving me pennies, that's annoying. Luckily the dep has a "need a pinny take a penny" dish that I can dump them in.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by Guspaz:

Some places like my local dep are still giving me pennies, that's annoying. Luckily the dep has a "need a pinny take a penny" dish that I can dump them in.

likely why they are still trying to get rid of them.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
reply to elwoodblues
I've made about 5 cash purchases and I'm down by 1 penny, exactly where I expected to be after 5 purchases, either up 1 penny or down one penny. My last purchase was $15.02, worked out to $15.00.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to Guspaz
I did get shortchanged at Mickey D's but i caught it
It's just rounding $1.83 coffee is now $1.85


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to elwoodblues
I cannot believe anyone is bothering to keep track. It is not worth it except to post on the internet how much you are up or down.


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to elwoodblues
Start spending the pennies lying around your house, no rounding when using exact change.
--
~ Project Hope ~


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

I did get shortchanged at Mickey D's but i caught it
It's just rounding $1.83 coffee is now $1.85

Everything rounds to the closest nickel or dime, whatever is close. I've been 'shorted' 3 times and I have 'shorted' 2 times, net loss is 1 penny over two weeks.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to EUS
said by EUS:

Start spending the pennies lying around your house, no rounding when using exact change.

They'll still round even with exact change.


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
The way this has been presented to Canadians, it's not very surprising.
The pages I pulled today have different rules than what was published not two months ago.
I see that even mint.ca/gc.ca is contradictory:
In one sentence
"Yes. The penny will retain its value indefinitely. As such, consumers can use pennies for cash transactions with businesses that choose to accept them."

Legal tender that the business can decide to accept or not?
And later on:

"For any cash payment, only the final amount (or equivalently, the change owed) should be subject to rounding. Individual items, as well as any duties, fees or taxes, should be tabulated in their exact amount prior to rounding. This includes the GST/HST."

So rounding should only be applied to change dispersed, not the invoiced amount.
--
~ Project Hope ~


lugnut

@communications.com
reply to elwoodblues
You people have WAAAAYYYYY too much time on your hands....



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to EUS
said by EUS:

So rounding should only be applied to change dispersed, not the invoiced amount.

It doesn't make any difference. You can round the final amount, after all taxes and everything else are applied. Something sells for 99 cents. 99 cents plus HST is $1.12. You don't round the 99 cents to $1 before adding tax, you round the $1.12 down to $1.10.

For accounting purposes, the invoice would be posted to your revenue account for 99 cents and your HST paid on sales account for 12 cents. The payment would be posted as a $1.10 debit to your cash received account and two cents would then be debited to a rounding or cash short/over account. The customer would owe you $1.10, you'd give them change, everyone is happy.

If the item was $1 rather than 99 cents and the total after tax was $1.13 you would do the same thing, post $1 to revenue and 13 cents to HST paid on sales. $1.15 would be debited to your cash received account and two cents would be credited to your short/over account. The customer would give you $1.15, you'd give them their change and all is swell.

The short/over account should be near zero by the time year end comes around.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to lugnut
said by lugnut :

You people have WAAAAYYYYY too much time on your hands....

... and yet, for some reason, you demonstrate a similar overabundance of free time by seeing fit to comment. Hmmm.

Sukunai
Premium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to elwoodblues
When I go to Tim Horton's here in town, the extra large hot chocolate is STILL 1.26.

I asked the girl and she said Tim Horton's is still ok accepting pennies for charity (or it sounded something like that).

I didn't question the comment, but it sounded kinda weird all the same.

Frankly I couldn't care less. I am fully aware that a drink at 1.26 is supposed to be 1.25. As I have seen it explained, it is supposed to round to the nearest nickel increment. This is not something you need a brain for. 1.25 is closer to 1.26 than 1.30.

But as I have a whole jar of pennies here, I suspect it will take me a couple of years before I can't stick 1.26 in my pocket before I go for my walk to Tim Horton's.

I have noticed people screwing up the process in both directions though. It's fairly plain counter help will simply have no idea what you deserve until they get cash registers to do the thinking for them again.

Technically there shouldn't be anything on sale that reads 1.26 in Canada right now. So asking for it just means they are doing it wrong.

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
said by Sukunai:

When I go to Tim Horton's here in town, the extra large hot chocolate is STILL 1.26.

I asked the girl and she said Tim Horton's is still ok accepting pennies for charity (or it sounded something like that).

I didn't question the comment, but it sounded kinda weird all the same.

Frankly I couldn't care less. I am fully aware that a drink at 1.26 is supposed to be 1.25. As I have seen it explained, it is supposed to round to the nearest nickel increment. This is not something you need a brain for. 1.25 is closer to 1.26 than 1.30.

But as I have a whole jar of pennies here, I suspect it will take me a couple of years before I can't stick 1.26 in my pocket before I go for my walk to Tim Horton's.

I have noticed people screwing up the process in both directions though. It's fairly plain counter help will simply have no idea what you deserve until they get cash registers to do the thinking for them again.

Technically there shouldn't be anything on sale that reads 1.26 in Canada right now. So asking for it just means they are doing it wrong.

Why would they change the price? The rounding only happens on a total transaction, and only if you're paying cash.

I don't see why any retailer would modify their prices.
Expand your moderator at work


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to NCRGuy

Re: The elusive penny

said by NCRGuy:

Why would they change the price? The rounding only happens on a total transaction, and only if you're paying cash.

I don't see why any retailer would modify their prices.

Exactly. The only time anyone should ever see rounding is after someone presses cash as the payment type on a register.

Furthermore, it will all happen automatically sooner than some people may think.

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
reply to donoreo
I actually don't care, but it costs me $1.37 at the cafeteria at work in the morning and I now get $0.65 back instead of $0.63, so it's easy to do the math without even thinking about it.
--
Start Communications Forum

Sukunai
Premium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to NCRGuy
said by NCRGuy:

said by Sukunai:

When I go to Tim Horton's here in town, the extra large hot chocolate is STILL 1.26.

I asked the girl and she said Tim Horton's is still ok accepting pennies for charity (or it sounded something like that).

I didn't question the comment, but it sounded kinda weird all the same.

Frankly I couldn't care less. I am fully aware that a drink at 1.26 is supposed to be 1.25. As I have seen it explained, it is supposed to round to the nearest nickel increment. This is not something you need a brain for. 1.25 is closer to 1.26 than 1.30.

But as I have a whole jar of pennies here, I suspect it will take me a couple of years before I can't stick 1.26 in my pocket before I go for my walk to Tim Horton's.

I have noticed people screwing up the process in both directions though. It's fairly plain counter help will simply have no idea what you deserve until they get cash registers to do the thinking for them again.

Technically there shouldn't be anything on sale that reads 1.26 in Canada right now. So asking for it just means they are doing it wrong.

Why would they change the price? The rounding only happens on a total transaction, and only if you're paying cash.

I don't see why any retailer would modify their prices.

But it IS the the total price, I order just a hot chocolate nothing else, and thus it is supposed to be rounded to closest nickel even if just a single item purchase.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
No, the total price is still $1.26.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1

4 edits
said by Gone:

No, the total price is still $1.26.

Total is $1.26, charge is $1.26 on debit/credit, otherwise it's $1.25 cash. Likewise, if it's $1.28, charge is $1.28 on debit/credit, otherwise it's $1.30 cash.




Rounding is done after taxes are added, not before.

quote:
The calculation of GST or HST on purchases will continue to be calculated on the penny and added to the price. It is ONLY the total cash payment that will be rounded.
This whole thing seem more painful for people than it really is. They should've gotten rid of the nickel in the process, thus eliminating the need to do this 25 years down the road again.

I don't have a inflation calculator that goes before 1914, but a penny was worth 20 cent in 1914 in todays value. So these people could argue for a 20 cent piece and we'd be no worse off than in 1914.....though I think we still had 1/2 pieces back then.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1
what they should have done was the same thing my school did ages ago, calculate the per product price so that when taxes are added it equals 5 or zero cents. not that hard to do and would get a considerable amount less bitching about who's rounding how.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
They could, but once a person buys an orange or banana or some bulk food. Another problem, after 2 or more items are added, the tax not longer adds up.

Example: Item at 1.02 + tax = $1.15 (in ontario)
Example: Above item 7@ 1.02 + tax = $8.07

It would only work with an item or two...
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to J E F F
said by J E F F:

Total is $1.26, charge is $1.26 on debit/credit, otherwise it's $1.25 cash. Likewise, if it's $1.28, charge is $1.28 on debit/credit, otherwise it's $1.30 cash.

I'm very well of the process.

The point I am making is that it's still $1.26. Rounding comes after and is seperate from the actual cost of the item and the tax. When a company sells something and they report HST at the end of the month/quarter and the income at the end of the year it's based on on $1.26, not the rounded value of $1.25 when paid for in cash.

Likewise, if you're recording an expense for your company, you're recording that you paid $1.26 for the item and the tax. If you paid in cash, the rounding is recorded separately just like it is when you sell something. At the end of the year, the rounded values should be near zero, and if it's not it's either revenue or an expense for the company.

All of this might not mean anything to an end consumer, but to businesses recording sales and expenses it means a lot. This is why - even when paying in rounded cash - the cost of the item is still $1.26.


BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to J E F F
said by J E F F:

They could, but once a person buys an orange or banana or some bulk food. Another problem, after 2 or more items are added, the tax not longer adds up.

Example: Item at 1.02 + tax = $1.15 (in ontario)
Example: Above item 7@ 1.02 + tax = $8.07

It would only work with an item or two...

tax per item would solve that pretty quickly. and works out cheaper in the end(about 2c by your example)


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by BonezX:

tax per item would solve that pretty quickly.

So you're saying different tax rates for different products merely so that everything rounds to 0 or 5?

If that's what you're saying, I don't think you fully grasp the ramifications of trying to implement something like that for people who actually have to track and report on the taxes they collect and the products they sell.

BrianON

join:2011-09-30
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
Would like to see the nickel and quarter go leaving just the dime. Easy to round change to the nearest 10c. Could make a cheap plastic holder for nine dimes so they are kept together and you can see the total value easily. Nobody wouold have to spend time counting nickels, dimes and quarters to give the cashier or digging around in a purse, wallet or pockets. You either give some of your nine dimes or get some to put in the holder.