dslreports logo
site
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search Topic:
uniqs
30199
share rss forum feed

securityguy

join:2012-08-14
Birmingham, AL
reply to Lagz

Re: Youtube sucks for me

said by Lagz:

I have included those addresses in my hosts.
Trying to watch this at 720p is like pulling hair

Wow. Glad I'm leaning towards NOT upgrading from AT&T DSL to U-verse.

That video plays fine at 720p on my lowly 6mbps down, .5mbps up DSL connection.


Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock
reply to HelpPlz

It seems major ISP's are throttling users!

»Why Is Everyone Having YouTube Streaming Issues?

»dd.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1···imit=500

»Youtube is slow

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB8UADuVM5A

--
When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask him to dribble a football.


Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5

said by Lagz:

It seems major ISP's are throttling users!

I can't speak for any other ISP's but AT&T is not throttling youtube at all. I can't even recreate the problem with my home Uverse line so I'd really appreciate not being accused of that.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

The Judd Family site!


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Lagz

said by Lagz:

It seems major ISP's are throttling users!

So why does it affect some users, but not others, on the same major ISPs?

And why, among those affected, is it only YouTube, but not Hulu, or Netflix, or others?

If it was the ISPs, it would affect all users. And if the ISP rationale is to throttle streaming content, it would be applied to all streaming services.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock

said by NormanS:

So why does it affect some users, but not others, on the same major ISPs?

That's the million dollar question. Maybe in some markets they have way oversold from what they can deliver?

said by NormanS:

And why, among those affected, is it only YouTube, but not Hulu, or Netflix, or others?

Youtube is by far and above the most visited site with an astounding amount of traffic. Only Google and Facebook beat youtube in visits and traffic. Netflix nor Hulu are even ranked on anything that I can find.

said by NormanS:

If it was the ISPs, it would affect all users. And if the ISP rationale is to throttle streaming content, it would be applied to all streaming services.

Not necessarily. It would apply to a site or sites that generate the most traffic in markets or areas that have been severely oversold.
--
When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask him to dribble a football.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

A "severely oversold" network would display general congestion symptoms across the board, not just on one streaming network. It would show problems within the provider transit network, not just on the edge, where peering occurs, or beyond, in the CDN transit network.

OTOH, inadequate load balancing at the CDN would easily account for these problems; but be difficult to address as users tweak their hosts files, and such, causing over-correction headaches for the network engineers.

Blame the users? In this case, youbetcha!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5
reply to Lagz

said by Lagz:

said by NormanS:

So why does it affect some users, but not others, on the same major ISPs?

That's the million dollar question. Maybe in some markets they have way oversold from what they can deliver?

said by NormanS:

And why, among those affected, is it only YouTube, but not Hulu, or Netflix, or others?

Youtube is by far and above the most visited site with an astounding amount of traffic. Only Google and Facebook beat youtube in visits and traffic. Netflix nor Hulu are even ranked on anything that I can find.

said by NormanS:

If it was the ISPs, it would affect all users. And if the ISP rationale is to throttle streaming content, it would be applied to all streaming services.

Not necessarily. It would apply to a site or sites that generate the most traffic in markets or areas that have been severely oversold.

No. That's not how it works. If was a bandwidth saturation or a bottleneck it would impact all services in that market. Granted it would show up on streaming services (video, VoIP, gaming, bit torrent ) but it would show across them all. You wouldn't be able to do a speed test and get 18mb and then turn around and be able to not watch a video at 480p. The internet does not work that way. If it impacted youtube it would impact Hulu unless the issue was much closer to the server than AT&T (ie the CDN servers they use).
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

The Judd Family site!

DNSguy

join:2006-04-09
Saint Charles, MO
kudos:3
reply to Lagz

said by Lagz:

said by NormanS:

And why, among those affected, is it only YouTube, but not Hulu, or Netflix, or others?

Youtube is by far and above the most visited site with an astounding amount of traffic. Only Google and Facebook beat youtube in visits and traffic. Netflix nor Hulu are even ranked on anything that I can find.

Really? You could not find a ranking for Netflix?

Netflix gobbles a third of peak Internet traffic in North America

"Audio and video streaming account for 65% of all downstream traffic from 9pm-12am and half of that is Netflix traffic [on North America fixed networks]."


Slowin225

@sbcglobal.net
reply to HelpPlz

This isn't a U-verse issue-- this is a google YouTube mirror issue. If you can go into your firewall and block the following outbound server IP ranges, all your YouTube buffering should disappear:

BLOCK outbound connections to:
206.111.0.0/16
173.194.54.0/24
173.194.55.0/24
64.214.227.42



skj
Welcome to the far side of reality
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-04
Gone South
kudos:1
reply to HelpPlz

Take a look here for our front page article on the issue:

»Why Is Everyone Having YouTube Streaming Issues?
--


Reality is the leading cause of stress among those who are in touch with it.--Jane Wagner


Jester236

join:2013-02-26
reply to HelpPlz

So I tried messing with this a while ago as i've been having the exact same issue. I came to the same conclusion as you have already in that by blocking different servers on youtube I could get it to transfer to much quicker one and have zero issues buffering. However ultimately since I couldn't find a way to fix it overall I gave up.

I ran across this thread as my frustration with the issue has caught up to me again. Here's what i've noticed and may be the key to understanding and potentially fixing this.

Using Fiddler every time I pull up a youtube video, regardless of quality, youtube always defaults to a server such as this: "r16---sn-vgqelney.c.youtube.com"

The r16 could be replaced with r12 or any other number but what stays the same is the "---sn-". Youtube always defaults to this for me (at least during the hours i've been conducting this test tonight, I plan on testing during off hours tomorrow or thursday to see what happens off peak) and it is always a horrible connection that can only manage 360. Typically speeds as shown within the youtube video info jump around from 900kbps to 1400kbps..obviously no where near fast enough for 1080p or 720p and certainly not using my 12Mbps connection.

So then I go in and copy the address from fiddler and add it to my hosts file. At that point when I reload the video (I wait a minute before doing so as Chrome at least seems to cache DNS settings for about 60 seconds before sending an updated request) fiddler shows the "---sn-" server being blocked and then it will default to a server such as this "r16---ord12x06.c.youtube.com" The "r16" part always matches the number of the previous server however it is always (so far after an hour of testing) switched to the "---ord" server. On this server i'm seeing instant speeds of 10,000 to 11,500kbps download on both 1080p and 360p.

It's almost as if i'm being directed to the wrong default server. I have the 3801 gateway which like many of the others you can't change DNS settings for. I've tried setting my adapter to Google's DNS and some others and while NSlookup is reporting the changed DNS, Namebench (a google program that analyzes your DNS server and hundreds of others then reccomends the fastest for you to use) still shows the default AT&T DNS. I don't know if that is the actual reason behind the issue but it seems possible that i'm simply being directed to the wrong server by default.

This is on Windows 7 64 bit with IPV6 disabled, though I ran with it enabled and showed no difference in the tests i've run so far.

Finally i'm interested to see what server I get directed to during off hours. Typically when I wake up early in the morning I can get full speeds so i'll be interested to see what server that is pulling from. I'll update tomorrow or Thursday with what I find.

I will say now that I know exactly what i'm looking for i'm just copying the address from Fiddler and using HostsMan to quickly edit the host file. For now I can do that but in the long run there needs to be a permanent fix as I have a feeling youtube has quite a few more servers than I want to try to block ha. Hope this helps.



TestBoy
Premium
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·tw telecom
reply to HelpPlz

I started having issues again yesterday continuing into today and decided to try that this evening.
I will be damned if this didn't solve it....

So now the question is.... do we have overloaded servers or ISP manipulation?
I will let some of you higher pay grade folks make that determination.


Jester236

join:2013-02-26

So did doing what I said and what others have mentioned in adding the specific servers to the hosts file work for you? Also if you did do that let me know what the typical servers look like that you are automatically pulling from. You're down near Columbia and i'm up in Greenville not too far away so i'm curious to see what role geography may be playing in all this.

On a side note to anyone who may use Fiddler to do what see which addresses to add to the hosts file be aware that Fiddler will make itself a proxy and change your internet settings to reflect this while running as thats how it intercepts the traffic. It will change your settings back when you close it down but while its open you may notice a hit to your overall download speed so keep that in mind when testing. I'm seeing mine peak around 6 -7Mbps with fiddler open and the normal 11-12Mbps when closed.



TestBoy
Premium
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC
kudos:1
reply to HelpPlz

I dropped....

206.111.0.0/16
173.194.54.0/24
173.194.55.0/24

Into my firewall... and... no more problems.
For the sake of completeness I pulled them and tried to watch the same video and it wouldn't load.


Jester236

join:2013-02-26

Hmmm....I tried the same but in Windows firewall and had no luck. Did you drop those in your hosts file?


Jester236

join:2013-02-26

Never mind just saw you said it was your firewall.



TestBoy
Premium
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·tw telecom
reply to Jester236

I did not, no.
I have a Zywall here at home that I also use for VPN tunnels.
I just created a few objects containing those ranges so it blocks those on all the computers on the network.

Keep in mind when adding these to any firewalls that you have to reject traffic GOING TO any address on those networks, not from those networks.

Edit: typo


Jester236

join:2013-02-26

1 edit

Well just went back and checked and it seems for some reason when you set up a rule it is set to automatically allow and not block which would obviously expalin why it had no affect haha. Went back and changed that and can confirm that this is working for me at the moment. I can disable and and instantly get crap speeds of 700 - 1200kbps, enable it and two seconds later i'm back to perfect streaming at 11,000kbps.

All that said I won't be convinced this is a perfect fix until I see it working during prime hours over the course of a couple days or a week. It does give me hope though that I can go in and disable or enable the rule and see such instant results. Have my fingers crossed though and hopefully at worst we might just need to add some more IP's to block. I'll be doing daily tests and try to update you, I suggest that anyone else who trys this does the same so we can correlate as much data as possible and finally put this issue to rest.



cob_
1310nm Of Goodness
Premium
join:2003-07-08
Tulsa, OK
reply to Slowin225

said by Slowin225 :

This isn't a U-verse issue-- this is a google YouTube mirror issue. If you can go into your firewall and block the following outbound server IP ranges, all your YouTube buffering should disappear:

BLOCK outbound connections to:
206.111.0.0/16
173.194.54.0/24
173.194.55.0/24
64.214.227.42

That's a good start, but there are several more. The first couple of hosts I have blackholed are 173.194.24.249 and 173.194.57.46 which are outside those networks you listed.
--
"No matter how hard you push and no matter what the priority, you can't increase the speed of light."

- RFC 1925

Frodo

join:2006-05-05
kudos:1
reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

So why does it affect some users, but not others, on the same major ISPs?

I wonder if the DNS servers have something to do with it. It seems that some Uverse customers are on IPv6 servers (so I hear):
99.99.99.53 & 99.99.99.153
I'm on these two:
68.94.156.1 & 68.94.157.1

I hear that Akamai uses DNS to map users to the nearest server. Maybe Youtube does that too. If the DNS server theory was correct, that would explain some users and not others.

profane

join:2010-10-10

1 edit
reply to HelpPlz

Ok so, I download that Fiddler app and ran it while testing both slow and fast loading videos from youtube.

The first one is from the video that take ages to load/buffer and the second line is from the one that actually works. Notice the word "Throttle" in first line.

http://r15---sn-q4f7dnez.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?algorithm=throttle-factor&burst=40
http://r4---sn-q4f7dnel.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?
 

Btw, these were directly copied from within Fiddler and are originally MUCH longer. If you need or want the rest, let me know.

Oh and I'm on U-verse 24/3


TestBoy
Premium
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC
kudos:1
reply to Frodo

My DNS servers are also 68.94.156.1 and 157.1
I have played around with using other DNS servers and that never made any real difference for me.


Jester236

join:2013-02-26

I have the exact same DNS as you do, permanetly set via my gateway. Looks like this could be a factor in all this. Blocking those IP's does seem to still be working for me so i'm starting to get a little more confident about it.



Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5

If blocking those IP's has a positive impact on performance than that means DNS is not a factor. Most likely you are just now bypassing over-saturated links.


mattw13

join:2013-02-20
united state
reply to HelpPlz

Doing an NSLookup on the YouTube addresses found through a Fiddler capture and blocking the relevant IPs fixed the "throttling" issue for me.



David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
reply to HelpPlz

For Nintendo Wii owners

After blocking those IP's see if you can watch a video with the youtube channel?

I was barely able to watch a video before, now I just get an error about trying again later.

I have a hunch that if I go and unblock those IP's/URL's my youtube channel on the Wii will mysteriously work.

Which if I understand this correctly, this will mean that as least some of those url's were for integrated equipment (tv's, xbox, wii, ps3, samsung tv's, etc...)
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!


Boiledpeanut

join:2013-03-03
Columbia, SC
reply to HelpPlz

Re: Youtube sucks for me

Works fine on our Verizon 3G signal, but nothing from our uverse but a spinning wheel. I feel like it started for us a week ago. Cannot provide data for y'all because I don't know a lot about tech stuff, but I did run speed test and it said 15mb. In SC.



TestBoy
Premium
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·tw telecom
reply to HelpPlz

Here is my chart from the youtube speed test.
As it probably is for most of you.. it's erratic up until I blackholed those IP ranges.... then it's gangbusters....

This is clearly not an issue with AT&T or UVerse... but Google.
I can stream 1080p videos in the evening/morning/afternoon.... anytime of the day really without issues..

There is a downside to blackholing these IP ranges.....
- Google TV can no longer play Youtube videos.
- Mobile devices can not play Youtube videos...

On an iPhone it just says "playback error" and on Android devices it says "connection to server lost touch to retry"

If you like watching Youtube videos you are restricting yourself to a computer.
I think this needs more press so that Google will feel some heat and fix this.

mattw13

join:2013-02-20
united state

said by TestBoy:

Here is my chart from the youtube speed test.
As it probably is for most of you.. it's erratic up until I blackholed those IP ranges.... then it's gangbusters....

This is clearly not an issue with AT&T or UVerse... but Google.
I can stream 1080p videos in the evening/morning/afternoon.... anytime of the day really without issues..

There is a downside to blackholing these IP ranges.....
- Google TV can no longer play Youtube videos.
- Mobile devices can not play Youtube videos...

On an iPhone it just says "playback error" and on Android devices it says "connection to server lost touch to retry"

If you like watching Youtube videos you are restricting yourself to a computer.
I think this needs more press so that Google will feel some heat and fix this.

Really? I can play mobile videos just fine after blocking a IP address (only blocked one address) (address found using NSLookup on a URL found through using Fiddler)

Also, it could still be AT&T's problem: sometimes ISPs cache videos locally to speed up streaming.


JDThird

@sbcglobal.net
reply to Dennis

I just changed from Roadrunner to Uverse less than a month ago. I had instant problems with streaming videos embedded in any website - youtube, geeksaresexy.net, whatever. Found out in my case it was because I already had a complex network at home before AT&T, so when they came in I didn't want to change my 10.x.x.x address range (since I do a lot of VPN work to clients I don't want overlapping IP's) and kept myself behind my firewall, which was behind their device. Even with the "firewall behind a firewall" setting that the tech enabled when he installed, it was a problem for streaming. I tested by turning on the AT&T wireless I had him keep disabled, and my Macbook pro suddenly could stream what it couldn't when behind the double NAT. I had to bite the bullet and change my network scheme to an "acceptable" one from AT&T since the uverse device doesn't allow the private 10. range on the LAN port. But once I put everything behind the AT&T device and not behind my own firewall as well, my problem went away. Certainly not the case for everyone's problem, but if anyone out there has a double NAT for outbound like I did, worth checking out in case it's impacting you... now if I could just get the Uverse internet to not drop a signal randomly during large file downloads... I lose internet AND tv signal every 10 or so minutes for 30 seconds or so when I'm downloading a large file...

Just glad I'm still in the trial portion since if this doesn't get resolved I can at least cancel Uverse without any penalty...