quote:Toronto newborn thought dead, recovering in hospital
A pair of attentive Toronto police officers noticed that a newborn baby was still alive on Sunday morning, despite the fact they had been told it was dead.
The story started in a part of northwest Toronto, where a woman reportedly gave birth on a sidewalk, near Jane Street and Yorkwoods Gate, on a day when the temperature went as low as -16 C during the morning.
Staff Sgt. Norm Proctor told CBC News that the childs mother and the grandmother were taken to hospital via ambulance.
Proctor said the child was "worked on" at the hospital, but pronounced dead and subsequently put under a sheet.
Two officers were then guarding the infant, while the coroner travelled to the scene.
Some two hours after the initial call, the officers saw the sheet move. The baby, it turned out, was alive.
The newborn is now in stable condition.
Proctor said it was an unusual story with a happy ending.
The officers involved in the situation involving the newborn were not available to speak with the media on Sunday.
All's well that ends well... Musta been one of those Zombie Apocalypse Babies
So was the baby clinically dead and then somehow spontaneously revived itself, or was the person who made the call incompetent?
Probably both. Given the circumstances described, the baby probably suffered severe hypothermia and may have been clinically dead at the time of admission, but the greatly lowered body temperature itself can forestall organ and brain damage much longer than would normally be possible. Of course the doctors should have taken this into account. Who knows, maybe it was plain simple incompetence, but the hypothermia would have complicated the diagnosis.
I've heard the comment many times (in television shows I admit) that nobody is dead until they are warm and dead. My guess is that's the case here. Someone pronouced while the baby's core temperature was too low.
Said Dr. will have some explaining to do at a future College inquiry, also most likely the Standards and Ethics department at the hospital will investigate further.
I'm sorry but pronouncing dead is not something so be taking lightly, could the delay in treatment by this misdiagnosis lead to future health concerns? This story had a happy ending thankfully.
Said Dr. will have some explaining to do at a future College inquiry, most like standard and ethics at the hospital will investigate further.
I'm sorry but pronouncing dead is not something so be taking lightly, could the delay in treatment by this misdiagnosis lead to future health concerns? This story had a happy ending thankfully.
Not at all. Because of the circumstances, this was a reportable death and the coroner was called. The coroner was yet to arrive, and the child was found to be alive.
No but I am sure hospital/college will want to review the steps that lead to the first doctors misdiagnosis to determine means of prevent such a reoccurrence.
So was the baby clinically dead and then somehow spontaneously revived itself, or was the person who made the call incompetent?
We've got a saying, when it comes to medical responses in the winter...
"They're not dead, until they are warm and dead"
I don't know any specifics in this case, beyond what's been reported - but it's not unheard of for severely hypothermic infants and children to show no detectable pulse for 45 mins or better (although an ECG should pick up the electrical activity of the heart) - and be revived, after a gradual warming...
Many here seem to wish to speculate without any facts. So far the only thing stated was by a police staffer by no means an authority on medical matters nor directly related to the case. I am most curious to see how the hospital replies - did a doctor paedatric emerg doc, even look at the baby??
No but I am sure hospital/college will want to review the steps that lead to the first doctors misdiagnosis to determine means of prevent such a reoccurrence.
I don't know any specifics in this case, beyond what's been reported - but it's not unheard of for severely hypothermic infants and children to show no detectable pulse for 45 mins or better (although an ECG should pick up the electrical activity of the heart) - and be revived, after a gradual warming...
Right, and if the baby was cold, and it's not unheard of for children to revive after warming, wouldn't it be a bit odd for a medical professional to declare the child dead when what happened here isn't exactly an unknown occurrence? Hence my (inflammatory, I will admit) "incompetence" comment? True, we don't know all the details, but geez.
Just saying. This is why it's a discussion forum, after all.
I fully agree with your incompetent comment, on what we know it seems they jumped to conclusion. Thankfully its turned into a relatively good news story and let's hope the baby is unharmed after full recovery .
I don't know any specifics in this case, beyond what's been reported - but it's not unheard of for severely hypothermic infants and children to show no detectable pulse for 45 mins or better (although an ECG should pick up the electrical activity of the heart) - and be revived, after a gradual warming...
Right, and if the baby was cold, and it's not unheard of for children to revive after warming, wouldn't it be a bit odd for a medical professional to declare the child dead when what happened here isn't exactly an unknown occurrence? Hence my (inflammatory, I will admit) "incompetence" comment? True, we don't know all the details, but geez.
Just saying. This is why it's a discussion forum, after all.
No argument here - whomever made the declaration (and whomever witnessed the declaration) will be having some tough questions to answer in the near future, and rightly so.
We're able to declare, in certain, very specific circumstances... No need to get into them this close to lunch; but let's just say, they leave no room for doubt... Paramedics, usually under the direction of the base hospital doctor, can declare in more situations then we can.
Again, we don't know many details - how long the infant had been worked on, what steps were taken, but typically (and I'm a AMFR, not a ACP or BLS paramedic, and certainly not a doctor) - if the baby's core temperature was over 35 deg C or so, there was no pulse or respiration effort, no detectable heart rhythm, and 3 or more rounds of drugs had been given, there would be grounds to declare... A spontaneous (or even medically assisted) recovery would be totally unexpected at this point.
If the attending doctor followed the standard of care; then declared based on where the standards led him (or her); this will be a medical wonder - if the doctor fell short of the standard, they'll have some serious 'splainin' to do...
CBC update on the story -- basically quoting an ER doctor confirming what has already been said here about hypothermia, and adding the fact that a newborn would be especially susceptible to the chance of revival: »www.cbc.ca/news/canada/t ··· ide.html
CBC update on the story -- basically quoting an ER doctor confirming what has already been said here about hypothermia, and adding the fact that a newborn would be especially susceptible to the chance of revival: »www.cbc.ca/news/canada/t ··· ide.html
There was a nice documentary by Dr Gupta on CNN about this.
SG: I was really surprised as well and had no idea of the political ramifications of what I was writing. Ive been overwhelmed by e-mails from people who are involved with this on both sides of the issue. The application of hypothermia is so simple that its almost unbelievable. If you look at your chance of surviving cardiac arrest as youre walking down the streets of your neighborhood and nobody helps you, they are about 2 to 3%. Now, if somebody helps and lets say calls 911, it goes up to around 10%. But if someone does simple chest compression and you add hypothermia, you can get a 700-800% increase in survival! There should be no argument on this.