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Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

Draiman to onebadmofo

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Re: Low water pressure

If you really want to go that direction get the biggest unit you can. I mean if you want to spend $400 why not spend the extra $80 and be safe. You can't just return this type of item after a few months when you find out it's too small but on the other hand if it's too big it just doesn't have to work as hard making it last longer.
»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N ··· 13h1QGSo
Bob4
Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

1 recommendation

Bob4

Member

112 Amps! He'll need a new electric drop just for this! And it will barely provide enough hot water in the winter.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

Draiman

Member

said by Bob4:

112 Amps! He'll need a new electric drop just for this! And it will barely provide enough hot water in the winter.

Yea it's crazy but if that's the path he wants to go down it's not much more work to do 112A vs 75A. He'd need at least 200A service for either.
Bob4
Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

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Bob4

Member

And all to NOT save money!

dcurrey
Premium Member
join:2004-06-29
Mason, OH

dcurrey to onebadmofo

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Maybe he should look into heat pump type water heaters. At least with them he shouldn't have to miss with new electric lines.

Think they qualify for rebates to cut down on the high cost.

»www.geappliances.com/hea ··· -heater/

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

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This is the model I'd suggest to anyone needing electric heat.
»www.lowes.com/pd_386797- ··· cetInfo=
Bob4
Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

Bob4

Member

Does GE even make water heaters, or are they still re-branded Rheems?
bigddybn
join:2000-10-18
Stuart, FL

bigddybn to Draiman

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Christ. My $400 dollar water heater works just fine.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
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tschmidt to Bob4

MVM

to Bob4
said by Bob4:

Does GE even make water heaters, or are they still re-branded Rheems?

I think the GE heat exchanger water heater is their own design. But I assume they stick it on top of some customized off the shelf tank, but I'm guessing. The reviews I've seen have been mixed. They are very expensive compared to traditional electric heater. This has to be amortized over a relatively short time frame. The analysis I've read indicates the control setpoints are optimized for scoring high on the Energy Star test but may not be optimum for real life use.

Back to the OP to help understand the tradeoff of tank vs tanksless water heaters.

Efficiency for electrically heated appliance is 100%, all of the electrical energy is converted to heat. In a traditional electric heater we then need to look at heat loss through the tank. Given high performance foam insulation very little heat is lost during standby. In the summer losses increase temperate near the heater and if the space is air conditioned must be removed by the HVAC system. HVAC operate at greater then 100% efficiency so it costs less then a BTU to remove every BTU lost by the heater.

In the winter the effect is the opposite. Any heat lost by the heater reduces need to add heat by the heating system. Unless the house is heated electrically the cost of a heating BTU is less then the cost of an electric BTU but it does offset heating cost to some extent.

If you go with the GE heat exchanger unit when the heat exchanger is operating it is pulling heat out of the air and transferring it to the water. The efficiency of this transfer is greater then 100% because the system is simply moving heat around not making it. So in the summer it will reduce air conditioning energy cost because it is removing heat from the air and transferring it to the water. Keep in mind that this is offset to some extend because waste heat from the compressor and fan is dumping some heat back into the conditioned space. In the winter heat transferred from the air to water will have to be made up by the heating system. Since those BTUs are probably cheaper then electricity cost is reduced but every BTU transferred to the water needs to be made up by the heating system.

The GE heat exchanger unit may make sense in the south where AC is needed all the time, but I doubt it makes sense anywhere else. There is also the issue of maintenance and repair. I hate to poo-poo green technology but if it breaks who are you going to find with the skills to fix it.

A much simpler approach would be to capture waste heat from the Air Conditioner and use it to warm water in a preheat tank, then plumb that to a conventional water heater and use electricity to top it up as needed.

/Tom

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

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said by Draiman:

said by onebadmofo:

So I'm looking at this and it seems like it would work for me. But what do I know.
»www.homedepot.com/webapp ··· WidgetID

Did you look at the specs on that unit? It shows the gpm flow based on the unheated water temp. If your water is 40 degrees for example and you want 110 degree shower that's an increase/rise of 70 degrees so that unit can only sustain 1.59 gpm's at that rate. It means you need a low flow water saver shower head and nothing else can be running to get the proper water temp. That will vary based on the water temp so in the Summer you'll be much better off but in the Winter you'll peak it out easy.

I did but...based on the replies (which are actually helpful) it's quite obvious I have no clue about what is a good replacement.

It's seems like a lot to figure in. this is all new to me.
onebadmofo

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to Draiman
said by Draiman:

If you really want to go that direction get the biggest unit you can. I mean if you want to spend $400 why not spend the extra $80 and be safe. You can't just return this type of item after a few months when you find out it's too small but on the other hand if it's too big it just doesn't have to work as hard making it last longer.
»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N ··· 13h1QGSo

I like that thought process.

but so I understand, to run the unit you linked, I'd still need to upgrade the breaker, and the wiring running to it correct?
Bob4
Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

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You said there are two of you? Just get a traditional 40 or 50 gallon electric water heater. Done. 100% efficient.

You (or the plumber) should check the wiring to ensure that the new heating elements don't exceed your wiring's capacity.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

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to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

said by Draiman:

If you really want to go that direction get the biggest unit you can. I mean if you want to spend $400 why not spend the extra $80 and be safe. You can't just return this type of item after a few months when you find out it's too small but on the other hand if it's too big it just doesn't have to work as hard making it last longer.
»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N ··· 13h1QGSo

I like that thought process.

but so I understand, to run the unit you linked, I'd still need to upgrade the breaker, and the wiring running to it correct?

Sure, of course; plus the incoming drop from the pole, possibly the electric meter pan and complete panel. Likely add another $1500 to the installation.

Get a regular 50 gallon tank and be done with it.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo to Draiman

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to Draiman
said by Draiman:

This is the model I'd suggest to anyone needing electric heat.
»www.lowes.com/pd_386797- ··· cetInfo=

If money was no object...I'd go for it. But unfortunately my pockets are full of lint and my wallet is always running on empty.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

Draiman to onebadmofo

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to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

said by Draiman:

If you really want to go that direction get the biggest unit you can. I mean if you want to spend $400 why not spend the extra $80 and be safe. You can't just return this type of item after a few months when you find out it's too small but on the other hand if it's too big it just doesn't have to work as hard making it last longer.
»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N ··· 13h1QGSo

I like that thought process.

but so I understand, to run the unit you linked, I'd still need to upgrade the breaker, and the wiring running to it correct?

You'd need to do that with any whole house electric tankless system. Not many people have that type of extra service coming into their house unused.
Draiman

Draiman to onebadmofo

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said by onebadmofo:

said by Draiman:

This is the model I'd suggest to anyone needing electric heat.
»www.lowes.com/pd_386797- ··· cetInfo=

If money was no object...I'd go for it. But unfortunately my pockets are full of lint and my wallet is always running on empty.

It shows you could get $600 off that water heater in rebates so $600 vs. $400-480.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

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to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

said by onebadmofo:

said by Draiman:

If you really want to go that direction get the biggest unit you can. I mean if you want to spend $400 why not spend the extra $80 and be safe. You can't just return this type of item after a few months when you find out it's too small but on the other hand if it's too big it just doesn't have to work as hard making it last longer.
»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N ··· 13h1QGSo

I like that thought process.

but so I understand, to run the unit you linked, I'd still need to upgrade the breaker, and the wiring running to it correct?

Sure, of course; plus the incoming drop from the pole, possibly the electric meter pan and complete panel. Likely add another $1500 to the installation.

Get a regular 50 gallon tank and be done with it.

Huh?? Not sure what you mean about a panel. But if it would end up with that type of cost, shit...forget it.

Ooor re-reading that, maybe I didn't word that properly. I already have a breaker box. What I meant was, that I'd have to get new breakers and heavier wire coming from the break box to accommodate the higher demand from the new W/H.
onebadmofo

onebadmofo to Draiman

Premium Member

to Draiman
said by Draiman:

said by onebadmofo:

said by Draiman:

This is the model I'd suggest to anyone needing electric heat.
»www.lowes.com/pd_386797- ··· cetInfo=

If money was no object...I'd go for it. But unfortunately my pockets are full of lint and my wallet is always running on empty.

It shows you could get $600 off that water heater in rebates so $600 vs. $400-480.

Good point.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

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Do you know if you have 100a or 200a service? A typical house uses 60-80a so unless you have a 200a panel already you'd be looking at $1,500 to upgrade no matter if you went with a 75a or 112a system.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

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said by onebadmofo:

Huh?? Not sure what you mean about a panel. But if it would end up with that type of cost, shit...forget it.

Ooor re-reading that, maybe I didn't word that properly. I already have a breaker box. What I meant was, that I'd have to get new breakers and heavier wire coming from the break box to accommodate the higher demand from the new W/H.

More likely an entirely new breaker box (panel) sized to your now-required 200A service. Putting a 100+ amp load onto your service is going to mean a lot of "upstream" stuff will likely need upgrading, too. Depending on who is responsible for the line from the pole to the meter you may be on the hook for that, as well as the "pan" (box) the electric meter mounts to, and the line from the meter to your breaker box. Usually the power company will swap your meter for free if you need one with more capacity.

This will cost you thousands of dollars, it's NOT worth it unless it either will give you some payback (this won't) or is needed because you're building on a big addtion to your house.

Your REALLY ought to just put in a new, regular, water heater. The installer should make sure your current breaker and the line to the heater is large enough, but that's usually easy to fix.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
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join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

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to Draiman
aaah ok. I got ya. I'll check when I get home. But I think it's a 200 amp. But I'm probably wrong.
If it's not whats required for that type of WH...forget it, I'll just go with a regular water heater. Unless I can get a good deal on the GE one with a rebate.

Or maybe I can simply buy a dip tube for 4 bucks and save a ton of money. ...that is is basement ceiling clearance is good. sheesh....so many things to factor in.
onebadmofo

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said by garys_2k:

said by onebadmofo:

Huh?? Not sure what you mean about a panel. But if it would end up with that type of cost, shit...forget it.

Ooor re-reading that, maybe I didn't word that properly. I already have a breaker box. What I meant was, that I'd have to get new breakers and heavier wire coming from the break box to accommodate the higher demand from the new W/H.

More likely an entirely new breaker box (panel) sized to your now-required 200A service. Putting a 100+ amp load onto your service is going to mean a lot of "upstream" stuff will likely need upgrading, too. Depending on who is responsible for the line from the pole to the meter you may be on the hook for that, as well as the "pan" (box) the electric meter mounts to, and the line from the meter to your breaker box. Usually the power company will swap your meter for free if you need one with more capacity.

This will cost you thousands of dollars, it's NOT worth it unless it either will give you some payback (this won't) or is needed because you're building on a big addtion to your house.

Your REALLY ought to just put in a new, regular, water heater. The installer should make sure your current breaker and the line to the heater is large enough, but that's usually easy to fix.

Yeah I see your point. If all that work would need to be done, it's a no brainer on what road to take with it.

Jim7
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10

Jim7 to onebadmofo

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to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

...that is is basement ceiling clearance is good. sheesh....so many things to factor in.

Just an idea but can you get some help? If you empty the tank, disconnect water and electric and tip it enough (with help) to get the new tube in, all you've spent is a couple bucks and some labor. You (or some contractor) will have to do all of this if you're going to replace the heater anyway.

Jtmo
Premium Member
join:2001-05-20
Novato, CA

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And when you put it in, strap it to the wall. Cheap fix against it falling over in an Earthquake, which you occasionally have on the East Coast. Being electric at least it won't blow up if it fell I guess.

Electric, that must cost a bundle to heat up.
On the RV, due to the water hardness at some places I get the white calcification. As stated, put some in some vinegar and see what happens.

On a 1994 heater, the anode rod is likely also shot.
I had to replace mine on the RV after 5 years as it was just a stick and lots of calcification.
Bob4
Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

1 recommendation

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His water heater is 20 years old.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
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join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo to Jim7

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said by Jim7:

said by onebadmofo:

...that is is basement ceiling clearance is good. sheesh....so many things to factor in.

Just an idea but can you get some help? If you empty the tank, disconnect water and electric and tip it enough (with help) to get the new tube in, all you've spent is a couple bucks and some labor. You (or some contractor) will have to do all of this if you're going to replace the heater anyway.

Yeah I thought of that. But I wasn't sure if that would damage the unit some how. (ya know like some things shouldn't be turned on their sides)

Jim7
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10

Jim7

Premium Member

I wouldn't expect it to as long as you didn't lay it on it's side, roll it around on the floor or bounce it up and down. I'm pretty sure they are 'supposed' to be shipped upright but as long as you're careful...
It's still a pretty cheap fix. You can always spend the bigger money later.

dcurrey
Premium Member
join:2004-06-29
Mason, OH

dcurrey to onebadmofo

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to onebadmofo
Another problem you might encounter trying to fix it is the bottom my be full of sediment. May or may not drain. Then you also face the possibility of drain valve leaking once done.

I am all for learning to try to fix stuff myself but be prepared to do full replacement.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo

Premium Member

Huh...looks like I have a 200 amp breaker?
Ok I'm not sure why but the site decided to place the pic on it's side and not upright. But what ever, you can still make out whats what.


leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
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leibold

MVM

The picture shows that you have a 200A breaker panel. This would mean that your service entry (power from utility to your panel) doesn't need to be upgraded if you were to install an electric tankless water heater (however that still doesn't make that a good idea). You would need new breakers and new wiring from the panel to the location of the tankless water heater if you were to take this path.

The picture also shows that you have a 30A breaker for your current water heater (that is typical). As long as your new water heater doesn't need more then 30A you can replace the water heater without any electrical upgrades.
This is your best (easiest, least costly) option.