US Telco Support > Verizon > Verizon FIOS TV > 4K & mpeg 4 availability

4K channels?

Are there even any full 1080p channels yet?

Most HD channels are still 1080i and 720p. Might be some VOD at 1080p, possibly.

Perhaps you're not up to date on the fact that FiOS is fairly maxed out on the use of available QAM channels. They currently use mostly MPEG2 (except for some MPEG4 used for certain packages). Thus, to add more HD channels FiOS needs to use available QAM space more efficiently; hence the need to move to using more MPEG4. This is the same limitation other cable systems that use QAM have. Others mitigate limitations by recompressing signals to lower bandwidth (and less quality) or use more MPEG4. FiOS does not recompress so the only alternative is to begin using more MPEG4 -- or IPTV.

FiOS doesn't recompress? Seriously? Are you sure? That directly contradicts tnsprin's belief that most channels are MPEG-4 from the providers and either way that seems just bizarre (since the MPEG transport stream from the providers is usually at a quite high bitrate to minimize second generation quality loss from recompression).

And frankly, it sounds to me like Verizon just needs to start using lower bitrates more than they need MPEG-4. They have plenty of capacity... I know MPEG artifacts aren't everyone's favorite thing but consider this:

1. More channels
2. Higher quality
3. Lower prices

You can pick two (MPEG-4 requires new STB's - an expensive proposition - ultimately the customer pays so long run prices are lower staying on MPEG-2 for as many customers as possible until most STB's are naturally replaced anyways).

How many people do you really think won't pick 1 and 3 and sacrifice 2?

If 1 and 3 are most people's choice then they should stay MPEG-2 for most content, and simply compress it to lower bitrates.

Yes, I'm sure that Verizon does not add compression. Although some providers are providing MPEG4 streams (which have lower compression artifacts than MPEG2 streams by the way), the satellite receivers Verizon uses both decrypt and provide both MPEG4 and MPEG2 streams, and the streams Verizon uses are not compressed further from further encoding itself.

I would hesitate to assert that quality is not a significant reason customers choose FiOS over other competitors. You obviously haven't experienced the quality on a continuing basis given your location and inability to subscribe to the service.

A large portion of the subscriber base already has the 7XXX-series MPEG4-capable STBs, and Verizon has already begun adding new content in MPEG4 that requires these. They've already upgraded users who subscribe to programming packages that required it, and they can do this in the future. Or just add the MPEG4 channels and let the consumer make the choice to upgrade their STB to get them or not. Time will tell.

ADDING MPEG-4 channels would not allieve capacity issues. The MPEG-2 channels must be replaced to do so. Also, if it's coming as MPEG-4 they HAVE to recompress to send it out as MPEG-2. They may be recompressing it at a very high bitrate, but you can't just magically turn MPEG-4 into MPEG-2. MPEG-4, at a given bitrate, will have fewer artifacts, absolutely. But at a high enough bitrate, MPEG-2 will have no visible artifacts either. I stand by what I said, MPEG-4 isn't being used, by anybody, to reduce artifacting. It's being used to get the SAME artifacting at a lower bitrate.

I am impressed that FiOS is apparently running such high bitrates regardless of whether the signal is being recompressed or not. The channels on most cable and satellite services are compressed (MPEG-2 or MPEG-4) into oblivion. Often to the point a DVD is higher quality despite the far lower resolution.

I know what good 720p and 1080i video compressed at high bitrates looks like. I'm glad to hear someone out there is doing it. I'd LOVE to pay more to get that. I'd love to give up half my crap channels to get that... but I still stand by what I said.

If I was running the company there isn't a snowball's chance in hell I'd move to MPEG-4 for the most popular packages until almost every MPEG-2 STB deployed was dead. A 256 QAM channel gives you 38.8 mbps to use. That gives you 2-4 MPEG-2 HD channels depending on the quality desired (2 really good channels or 4 really crappy ones, 3 seems to be most typical). MPEG-4 is about 50% more efficient. So for the same quality you'd get 3-6 channels. Or, you could take the same 3-4 channels today and take them from average/mediocre to good/average.

If I was running the company and wasn't getting quality complaints, I know I'd try to use MPEG-4 when I did deploy it to fit in more programming rather than improving quality. That's what my customers would want.

You can't magically make MPEG-4 into MPEG-2. It's recompressed. The question is just whether the bitrate of the new MPEG-2 transport stream is high enough that you don't notice the generational loss.

- a win/win for everybody.

870 mhz is not exactly accurate. only 50-860mhz is useable.

You can't magically make MPEG-4 into MPEG-2. It's recompressed. The question is just whether the bitrate of the new MPEG-2 transport stream is high enough that you don't notice the generational loss. It sounds like Verizon is doing well there, but still, I stand by what I say... that's not the way to keep customers.

Look at DISH Network. It looks like utter garbage. They don't even offer HD of many popular channels (e.g. Disney) since they're unwilling to pay for it. Everything is compressed into oblivion. They have no customer service and they engage in deceptive, even threatening business practices.

And they're insanely popular because people want to save $10 a month.

870 mhz is not exactly accurate. only 50-860mhz is useable.

first of all mpeg4 to mpeg2 is done with equipment provided by the networks. espn gives an receiver/transcoder (yes its transcoded NOT recompress as you call it). going from 9mbps mpeg4 to 18mbps mpeg2 is not "recompress.