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XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL

Threat to WISP's and ISP's? Free Super WiFi FCC White Space

Hey everyone. I've been wondering how some of you feel regarding the free nationwide public Super WiFi, which will supposedly use the old TV white space portion of the spectrum, and how it may affect WISP's and ISP's who sell residential grade services.

I know many of the big ISP's are fighting against it. I may be a little out of the loop regarding this topic, and am curious to hear some opinions of my fellow WISP owners and employees.

Thanks


DaDawgs
Premium
join:2010-08-02
Deltaville, VA
said by XLBroadband :

Hey everyone. I've been wondering how some of you feel regarding the free nationwide public Super WiFi, which will supposedly use the old TV white space portion of the spectrum, and how it may affect WISP's and ISP's who sell residential grade services.

I know many of the big ISP's are fighting against it. I may be a little out of the loop regarding this topic, and am curious to hear some opinions of my fellow WISP owners and employees.

Thanks

I am not familiar with this but bandwidth is never free. Could you link an article about this?
--
Once we IPv6 enable every device on the Internet we will have toasters, baby monitors, and security cameras joining the bot nets which today are populated only by idiots that can not refrain from clicking, "Yes I would like to see those titties..."

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to XLBroadband


DaDawgs
Premium
join:2010-08-02
Deltaville, VA
Ah, thank you it is the old White Space debate with a twist.

To the OP... Yes we want unlicensed access to the white space. Yes it has great range. Even a low power levels. Antennas are a bit larger but not larger than a TV antenna (naturally).

I put up a couple of 700 MHz links for Virginia broadband a few years ago. One was at 60' on poles through more than a mile of heavy forest on the south shore of the Patomac. Worked a treat. The other was about a mile LOS over urban cover but it ran at 1 mw on each end. It was near NSWC Dahlgren. It was a backup and is probably still running. I'm pretty sure they were both illegal but I don't really care as I am no longer employed by that company. he he

Aye, access to the white space would enable much larger coverage areas per pop in forested areas. It would not really help people on the great plains much as 5.8 is vastly superior out there.

The major carriers have been trying to kill the idea all along but hint that the FCC would sell licenses in that spectrum and watch them change their tune. It is sad really, it doesn't matter which party is in charge, the FCC will whore to the highest bidder all the time...

As an aside, I am surprised but proud that PBS called Karl a party pooper.... Well done Karl.
--
Once we IPv6 enable every device on the Internet we will have toasters, baby monitors, and security cameras joining the bot nets which today are populated only by idiots that can not refrain from clicking, "Yes I would like to see those titties..."

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to XLBroadband
The origin of this confusing "super wifi" moniker is actually IEEE and Google - both big backers of the IEEE 802.22 standard.

»www.ieee802.org/22/

IEEE 802.22-2011 ... variety of applications using cognitive radio technology in Television White Spaces (TVWS) ... long range and regional area smart grid, critical infrastructure monitoring, triple play services like providing voice, video and data, backhaul for broadband access offloading cellular telephony traffic, regional area public safety and homeland security networks, emergency broadband services, monitoring rain forests, monitoring livestock, and border protection etc.

Curiously they mention backhaul using UHF ... but WISPs really need very affordable multi-sector UHF APs and affordable UHF CPEs which can be backhauled using much higher throughput (and already affordable) 5Ghz links.


XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to DaDawgs
Well, thank you for your response. My main concern is that they will be giving it away free. Lets just say they offered 5mbps down/ 1 mbps upload free to everyone, that would really kill the economy when referring to us gatekeepers of the internet.

I know bandwidth and infrastructure costs, so how can they ever imagine they would be able to give free nationwide public access? They were talking about stamping the cpe's out like garage door openers making them super cheap. I really hope this never happens. Wouldn't you think someone is going to have to pay for the infrastructure and tier 1 services?

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
said by XLBroadband :

They were talking about stamping the cpe's out like garage door openers making them super cheap.

"They" have no clue what it will take to mass market 802.22 and most probably are not aware that 802.16 also promised very low-cost broadband solution and failed to deliver.

Meanwhile Atheros (for example) have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to lower cost and size of their mass market "vanilla wifi" chips. WISP CPE designs have become really simple using their sub-$10 chips ... but they can't actually be "stamped out" like garage door openers or given away for free.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to XLBroadband
said by XLBroadband :

My main concern is that they will be giving it away free.

Nobody's talking about doing it for free. News outlets are misinterpreting "unlicensed" for free. Plain and simple, it's not going to happen other than where a company (like Google) may choose to offer it.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to XLBroadband
The problem is that the media conflates the word 'unlicensed' with 'free'.


XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband
I can see what you mean but it does seem that many sources, includeding the washington post have it confused and are labeling it as free of charge. Check link.

"The Washington Post has recently reported that the FCC has proposed the idea of creating super WiFi networks around the U.S., which would allow the public to make cellphone calls or surf the Internet free of charge. The FCC's plan has been in discussion for years but gained traction after endorsements from Google and Microsoft. The companies believe that easy access to free public WiFi would spur "millions of devices that will compose the coming Internet of things." If approved, it would still take several years before the FCC's proposal would be in full effect."

»money.msn.com/business-news/arti···16087899


XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband
Hopefully everyone IS misinterpreting the unlicensed spectrum as free with free of charge. There is quite a big difference.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by XLBroadband :

Hopefully everyone IS misinterpreting the unlicensed spectrum as free with free of charge. There is quite a big difference.

Yep, that's pretty much the case. Even some people at the FCC are probably helping spread the rumors.

Two things to keep in mind about the FCC:

1) these are politicians, not engineers. Things like "free nationwide wifi" sound good, even if they are empty promises that are impossible to achieve. But those things won't stop them from saying things that make themselves sound good.

2) these are politicians, not engineers. Most of them don't have any idea what they are talking about, and may indeed think that "unlicensed white space" means "free public wifi".

In other words, nothing to get too worried about. Even if they really want free nationwide wifi, what are the chances that some place like the FCC could accomplish it?


XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
reply to XLBroadband
hahaha.. exactly. thanks for pointing that out. Just wanted get some input and see what other people thought.


DaDawgs
Premium
join:2010-08-02
Deltaville, VA

1 recommendation

reply to XLBroadband
To that I will only add:

In the USA, we have become so enslaved to the 24x7 news cycle that we actually believe the idiots who are pretending to be newscasters have our best interests in their hearts...

They don't.


XLBroadband
Premium
join:2011-01-20
Frankfort, IL
^Agree