dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
24498
share rss forum feed


cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·Wightman Telecom
reply to trparky

Re: How long will my (your) SSD last?

All depends on the writes to the same NAND cells so to speak. More writes to the same spot will kill the drive faster. I was thinking of using one in a pfsense box until I started looking at the logging system. I figured I would have killed the drive in under two years in that setup.



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to MaynardKrebs

SSDs are very different, and what you can do with a failed SSD depends a lot on the failure mode. You need to forget about freezing and think about something else.

If there are worn out cells there's probably not much that can be done to retrieve data from those -- at least partial data loss. This can be a result of an end of life wearout, so this is a normal failure mode that will happen sooner or later unless the SSD is replaced. Given that in normal usage SSDs are expected to last 10+ years, they're likely to be replaced due to small size and/or obsolescence well before cells start wearing out en masse.

If the whole flash chip bites the dust (i.e. ESD damage) for all practical purposes, all data on said chip is gone -- that means at least a partial data loss, but if the flash chips are interleaved for higher through put, it can also mean complete data loss.

If the controller chip bites the dust, in theory it can be removed and replaced and the SSD should be fully functional with the data intact. Note, "should" doesn't mean "will", and replacing BGA chips is not easy, to say the least.

If it's a firmware bug (as was the case in the SSDs I wrecked) the result depends on many things and it can vary from total loss to full recovery.

Due to the lack of moving parts, I consider SSDs more reliable than MHDDs, but if you have valuable data, you should keep a backup, no matter what.
--
Wacky Races 2012!



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to cpsycho

said by cpsycho:

All depends on the writes to the same NAND cells so to speak. More writes to the same spot will kill the drive faster.

False. *sigh*
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto
reply to trparky

Thank you everyone. This is valuable information, and thank you for dispelling the myth of premature failure. I, too, fell into the trap of listening to naysayers of how they will fail quickly. From all the info I've just read here (and seeing the uploaded stats), I surmise getting an SSD for my laptop (and possibly desktop) would last a lot longer than I thought otherwise. This is good news.

I was looking into replacing the SATA drive for an SSD on my Latitidue D830 and use the DVD drive bay as an extra hard drive, since I don't use the DVD burner that much. Now, if only I had the money to buy me an SSD.
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben



Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Columbus, OH

said by Boricua:

I was looking into replacing the SATA drive for an SSD on my Latitidue D830 and use the DVD drive bay as an extra hard drive, since I don't use the DVD burner that much. Now, if only I had the money to buy me an SSD.

This is pretty much how I did my Inspiron E1505. SSD in the main HDD slot and a larger HDD in the optical bay with the proper adapter. Works a treat. And thanks to Win 7 and 8 being easy as pie to install from a USB flash drive, lack of a DVD drive should not be an issue.

Should note that SSD's are becoming increasingly cheaper. My 60GB OCZ Solid3 I bought October of 2011 cost me around $125. These days you can get the same for around half the price or a 120-128GB for the same price.
--
I swear, some people should have pace-makers installed to free up the resources. Breathing and heart beat taxes their whole system, all of their brain cells wasted on life support.-two bit brains, and the second bit is wasted on parity! ~head_spaz


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2
reply to trparky

Myself, I'll probably upgrade the SSD to a larger capacity SSD in three of so years. Programs get bigger, drives get faster, latencies get lower. All of these are reasons why in a few years you're going to possibly want a larger SSD. It's like anything, things get better.

I have a 250 GB SSD and I use it for a lot of my programs for instant boot and instant program launch. Things like web browsers and utilities get installed on the SSD. Games are installed on the HDD.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)


scanchain

join:2004-05-22
San Jose, CA

1 recommendation

reply to koitsu

said by koitsu:

said by cpsycho:

All depends on the writes to the same NAND cells so to speak. More writes to the same spot will kill the drive faster.

False. *sigh*

Right. Firmware will prevent you from writing to the same block repeatedly. This is the function of wear leveling and garbage collection.

The SSDs currently in the market uses BCH for error correction. When the NAND flash gets "worn" out, there would be increasing raw read errors; when the point is reached where the correction power of BCH is exceeded, the user will start seeing uncorrectable read errors.

The next generation controllers for SSD will use LDPC for error correction. LDPC can benefit from soft information which can be generated by performing multiple reads with shifted read reference voltages. It is expected that controllers with LDPC will prolong the life of SSDs when used with TLC NAND devices.


disconnected

@spcsdns.net
reply to markf

I have owned two OCZ Vertex drives and they both failed within hours of installation . I replaced with Intel 520 series, which is still working one yeat later.
In the past month, I bought two Intel 335 series drives for two WIN 7 installs. Am very happy with all of the Intel drives so far. They work and are fast, ad well as run cool.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2

2 edits
reply to trparky

Samsung SSD PM810 128GB

so far
1.58TB READ
1.79TB write.
Power on count 1,003
Power on Hours 3,448

What do i win for having the most power on counts?



ImpldConsent
Under Siege
Premium
join:2001-03-04
Mcdonough, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com
reply to koitsu

said by koitsu:

It depends on how the vendor chooses to implement storage of the SMART attribute data. For example, on some (not necessarily all) Intel SSDs, attributes 241 and 242 RAW_VALUE columns track the number of 32MBytes (more specifically 32MiBs) read/written. Use smartmontools, it has proper decoding for this.

TY. Then it looks like OCZ is correctly displaying the conversions. I compared the smartmontools output to what OCZ Toolbox and it works. Thx again. My fuzzy math sees 349days of 2.56GB writes daily and 12.65GB reads daily. It'll take me a minute or two to get to 100TB writes
--
That's "MISTER" Kafir to you.

markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom

1 edit
reply to disconnected

I have 2 OCZ's (one Agility, not sure the other one). The first is almost a year old, the second close to that too.

Both have run well for me.

The one on my laptop has 5.7TB read, 3.3TB written, health 100%, 1854 hours in 1360 power ons. The boot drive on my HTPC has to have many more hours than that and maybe even more read/write because it was the only drive for a couple of months while I waited for WD RMA replacement drive (after the HDD failed in less than 2 years).

(My HTPC drive has 5483 hours and still 100%)

Both drives expected to last until summer 2021



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to trparky

The free version of SSD-Life doesn't support more then one SSD. In this system I have a 500GB Samsung 840 and a 120GB Corsair Force Series 3 (no HDD). The program only gives info on the Corsair though,.....


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

ssd life does not work on samsung drives very well

Says data written GB 15,056,686,937

that is 15 exabyte
--
Well, does your car at least turn into something else? Sometimes I turn it into a trashcan. Hmm...



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

Click for full size
said by Anonymous_:

ssd life does not work on samsung drives very well

Says data written GB 15,056,686,937

that is 15 exabyte

Well I can't get it to work with the installed 500GB Samsung 840 SSD anyway unless maybe I switch its SATA port location. That's too much trouble IMO for a free program so I installed the Windows 8 version of Samsung's Magician Software v4.0 utilities.


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

Samsung's Magician Software v4.0 also works on Windows 7.



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

Indeed it (v4.0) does as well as Win XP and Vista support. Version 3.2, the only other version visible on the support page, does not have Windows 8 support though.



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Ghastlyone

said by Ghastlyone:

My Vertex 4...

Interesting that your drive 'worked' more and supposedly will live longer than mine.
--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit
reply to Octavean

Click for full size
that software is not usable my drive since it's OEM,model 810 is not compatible with that software
--
Well, does your car at least turn into something else? Sometimes I turn it into a trashcan. Hmm...


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

Too bad, maybe try another utility,.....



Rook008
Miles To Go
Premium
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Time Warner Cable
reply to MxxCon

said by MxxCon:

said by Ghastlyone:

My Vertex 4...

Interesting that your drive 'worked' more and supposedly will live longer than mine.

Now I'm curious about that too...


--
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken


MxxCon

join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY

Hmmm..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskInfo 5.4.0 (C) 2008-2013 hiyohiyo »crystalmark.info/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) OCZ-VERTEX4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model : OCZ-VERTEX4
Firmware : 1.5
Serial Number :
Disk Size : 128.0 GB (8.4/128.0/128.0)
Buffer Size : >= 32767 KB
Queue Depth : 32
# of Sectors : 250069680
Rotation Rate : ---- (SSD)
Interface : Serial ATA
Major Version : ACS-2
Minor Version : ----
Transfer Mode : SATA/600
Power On Hours : 995 hours
Power On Count : 81 count
Host Writes : 1587 GB
Temparature : Unknown
Health Status : Good (100 %)
Features : S.M.A.R.T., 48bit LBA, NCQ, TRIM
APM Level : ----
AAM Level : ----

-- S.M.A.R.T. --------------------------------------------------------------
ID Cur Wor Thr RawValues(6) Attribute Name
01 __6 __0 __0 000000000006 Raw Read Error Rate
03 100 100 __0 000000000000 Spin Up Time
04 100 100 __0 000000000000 Start Stop Count
05 100 100 __0 000000000000 Reallocated Sectors Count
09 100 100 __0 0000000003E3 Power-On Hours
0C 100 100 __0 000000000051 Power Cycle Count
E8 100 100 __0 0000C66617C8 Total Count of Write Sectors
E9 100 __0 __0 000000000064 Remaining Life


--
[Sig removed by Administrator: signature can not exceed 20GB]


hitachi369
Embrace Your Rights
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:4
reply to trparky

working mine like a dog.


Dream Killer
Graveyard Shift
Premium
join:2002-08-09
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
reply to trparky

My X-25 G1 that I bought when it came out at the end of 2008 is still showing up as "99%" health in crystal disk info. It's in a frequently used gaming desktop with lots of reformats, used as a scratch disk for photoshop as well as multiple on-off cycles during the day. I didn't optimize the OS in anyway beyond the default "set the bios to AHCI".



Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to Anonymous_

said by Anonymous_:

that software is not usable my drive since it's OEM,model 810 is not compatible with that software

Some magician!


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2
reply to trparky

Milestone - 1024 Hours (March 11, 2013)

The drive is now up to 1024 hours and at that point the power went out in the lab due to a snow storm. While unplanned, the power outage worked out well for our test because we needed to power down the drive in order to test the transistor gates. As NAND flash wears the gate walls thin and the ability for the SSD to hold a charge diminishes. We can now program the host system to power down every 1,000 hours and keep power from the SSD for 72 hours. As of hour 1024, the Samsung 840 250GB SSD is perfectly fine.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)



Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Columbus, OH
reply to trparky

So to add to this, my drive dropped to 99% health yesterday according to SSDLife and has over tripled it's TEC date. Obviously I don't expect it to last to this exact date and more than likely will replace it before its original 2021 TEC.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Octavean

said by Octavean:

The free version of SSD-Life doesn't support more then one SSD. In this system I have a 500GB Samsung 840 and a 120GB Corsair Force Series 3 (no HDD). The program only gives info on the Corsair though,.....

I installed a dual 2.5" rack in a 3.5" bay which makes the SSD units more or less removable. So now I guess I can use SSD-Life on the Samsung. It was a cheap rack though and it will cut the speed down from SATA 6G to SATA 3G but I knew that going in.


kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to trparky

My baby Adata


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to trparky

I guess SSDLife doesn't like the dual 2.5" rack my Samsung 840 is installed in. Maybe that is why there isn't much info. I'll try it without the rack down the line.


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

The issue is not with your "rack". The issue is with SSDLife itself. The software is badly designed and makes stupid "logic decisions" regarding how to calculate drive ""lifetime"".

If you read their wonderfully-hidden-with-a-small-font "how do you calculate it?" page, while rolling your eyes are all the vague/ambiguous generalisations they state, you'll see that for SSDs they make the blind/moronic assumption that every SSD provides SMART attribute 0xE9 / 233. Samsung SSDs do not provide this attribute, and that's perfectly fine, because such an attribute really doesn't mean anything (especially considering how SMART and its behaviour is a black box / entirely dependent upon the coders who wrote the firmware).

This is just another example of mainstream software authors thinking they've come up with a clever way to calculate something that cannot be calculated. As I've said for years, repeat ad nauseum: SMART attributes have to be decoded by a human being who has familiarity with them and the exact model of drive; software cannot do this reliably. Do not believe the hype.

"Racks" or "enclosures" (specifically non-USB enclosures, i.e. attached via native SATA or eSATA) do not get in the way of SMART pass-through. It's when there is a converter chip (ex. USB-SATA bridges) or badly-engineered RAID controllers involved where you can potentially lose SMART visibility. Some such bridges and controllers provide "partial" SMART pass-through too (attributes can be obtained, but things like the SMART error log, SCT log, self-test log, etc. are rejected. Great firmware/BIOS design on the part of the hardware vendors! Sigh...)
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.