dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
5350
share rss forum feed


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

Microsoft Security Essentials - banned for school + business

(... the business part of the thread should read 10+ PC businesses but I ran out of title room so the topic title might sound a little sensationalist)

So I decided I'd review Microsoft's licenses for the new year since I haven't gone over the details on the new operating systems and much of what I'm hearing is second hand information relayed from web sites that are outright wrong or simply surprising and I happened upon this:

quote:
MICROSOFT SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS

MICROSOFT SECURITY ESSENTIALS


INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.

Home Use. If you are a home user, then you may install and use any number of copies of the software on your personal devices for use by people who reside in your household.

Small Business. If you operate a small business, then you may install and use the software on up to ten (10) devices in your business.

Restrictions. The software may not be used on devices owned by government or academic institutions.
»windows.microsoft.com/en-US/wind···als-eula

Obviously this leads to some questions and a musing.

1) Since Windows 8 is bundled with Windows Defender, arguably the same product, what the fuck?

2) If it comes pre-packaged by the manufacturer, as you'll find on plenty of new systems, are you supposed to remove it prior to using it in an academic environment or if it's the 11th PC on your business network?

3) There isn't really a lot of information on what you do when you get to PC #11.

4) What the fuck!?


craig70130
Premium
join:2004-04-27
New Orleans, LA

1. Not the same product at all.
2. Yes you are.
3. You purchase the proper corporate or educational license.
4. Where's the problem?


lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA

1 recommendation

reply to urbanriot

Microsoft licensing: About as user friendly and understandable as a rabid hyena.



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to craig70130

said by craig70130:

1. Not the same product at all.

Steven Sinofsky, (»social.msdn.microsoft.com/profil···inofsky/), states otherwise but it's possible you may know more than him. Care to elaborate?

said by craig70130:

3. You purchase the proper corporate or educational license.

Can you relay the sku for the educational Microsoft Security Essentials license?

said by craig70130:

4. Where's the problem?

I guess I'll have to spell it out. I figured the obviousness would nullify the necessity.

You have a home operating system that bundles Microsoft's antivirus package without limitations; and you have a home operating system with manufacturer's bundling Microsoft's antivirus package, potentially violating limitations. There's a number of other oddities but I'll just leave you with that one for now...

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by urbanriot:

Care to elaborate?

Well, the simple thing is that one product is called Microsoft Security Essentials (and is an add-on to Windows XP/Vista/7: it is not bundled with the OS) and the other product is called Windows Defender (and is bundled with Windows 8).

Obviously, not the same thing, since they have different names. Pronouncements about a thing called Security Essentials don't apply to a thing not called Security Essentials.

Sinofsky's talking about the implementation, which is irrelevant in this licensing context.

I agree the whole Defender/Security Essentials naming thing is idiotic, but the rest is easy to grasp: you can have a thing called Security Essentials free for up to 10 PCs. You can have a thing called Windows Defender free without known limit. (Consider it a natural process of add-on functionality being absorbed into the OS.)

What you're supposed to do for 11 PCs is to buy System Center Endpoint Protection. I think this allows single point of management, but am not sure.

Incidentally, the terms are right there on the MS web site for downloading Security Essentials.
quote:
Microsoft Security Essentials is available for small businesses with up to 10 PCs. If your business has more than 10 PCs, you can help protect them with Microsoft System Center 2012 Endpoint Protection.



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

said by dave:

Sinofsky's talking about the implementation, which is irrelevant in this licensing context.

I was communicating within the context of craig70130's substance lacking post and not at all concerning licensing.

said by dave:

What you're supposed to do for 11 PCs is to buy System Center Endpoint Protection. I think this allows single point of management, but am not sure.

I get what they want you to do but the liklihood that micro small businesses would strictly adhere to such guidelines, or even know about such guidelines, is silly. They're basically saying, "undo what might naturally happen at your location or what you may be given by manufacturer's."

The software is offered up as an optional Windows update and plenty of people install all the listed updates to stay patched and 'secure'.

If Microsoft Security Essentials weren't an offered Windows Update and if Windows 8's Defender wasn't basically the same product, I might feel otherwise on this topic.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

Click for full size
1
Click for full size
2
Click for full size
3
said by urbanriot:

If Microsoft Security Essentials weren't an offered Windows Update and if Windows 8's Defender wasn't basically the same product, I might feel otherwise on this topic.

I finally moved to Windows 8 Pro x64 this past weekend, and I don't remember seeing it listed as an update that I could have installed. So to me, I don't believe it was offered on Windows Update.

To help show this, the first picture shows what updates I'm currently being offered that I have not installed yet. The next two show all of the updates that I have installed from Windows Update. And yes, I do receive updates from Windows and other products from Microsoft Update.

--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

There is no Sec. Ess. for Windows 8.

The Defender that ships with Windows 8 is functionally equivalent to Sec. Ess. and probably shares an implmentation too.

urbanriot See Profile's main objection seems to be that if he's running Windows 7, the free antivirus (Sec. Ess.) comes with a limit of 10 seats, but if he's running Windows 8, the functionally-identical free antivirus (Defender) has no such limit.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

Ahh ok Dave. I kind of us having a similar discussion in another thread about this, but wanted to confirm.

--Brian



BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:3
reply to urbanriot

And yet Microsoft has a category within WSUS for pushing definition updates to Security Essentials.



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to dave

said by dave:

urbanriot See Profile's main objection seems to be that if he's running Windows 7, the free antivirus (Sec. Ess.) comes with a limit of 10 seats, but if he's running Windows 8, the functionally-identical free antivirus (Defender) has no such limit.

More or less although the key factor in my objection is the inclusion of it within Windows Updates, which any user can update to their system. I can't think off hand if I've ever seen a Windows Update with licensing ramifications.

Or in other words, simply installing a Windows Updates could enable you to commit a civil crime. That's the crux of my issue.


pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC
reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

Can you relay the sku for the educational Microsoft Security Essentials license?

It's called Microsoft Forefront: »www.microsoft.com/forefront/en/c···ult.aspx
--
The more I C, the less I see.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to craig70130

said by craig70130:

1. Not the same product at all.
2. Yes you are.
3. You purchase the proper corporate or educational license.
4. Where's the problem?

I was just told in Microsoft's own forum that Windows Defender and MSE are identical. An MVP told me this and said I should not have needed to ask about it as everyone knows they are identical except Windows Defender comes embedded in Win 8. (I was asking about a new program version and engine since MSE has both as new versions and was told, yes, Windows Defender will also. I was also informed that I will not be able to upgrade the Windows Defender program and engine via Microsoft download site which means I need to find another AV that works right on Win 8).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to pfak

said by pfak:

said by urbanriot:

Can you relay the sku for the educational Microsoft Security Essentials license?

It's called Microsoft Forefront: »www.microsoft.com/forefront/en/c···ult.aspx

See if you can easily determine if your Forefront product has been abandoned by Microsoft:

»blogs.technet.com/b/server-cloud···aps.aspx

Some things that are the same (MSE and Defender for Win8) they call by different names. Some things that are not the same (myriad Forefront stuff) they call by the same name. The result is a thorougly confused customer who keeps doing business with you largely out of inertia.

MS has the brains, cash, and installed base to lead by a long shot in every category in which they compete. Instead they seem to be treading water, completely in spite of themselves.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to pfak

said by pfak:

said by urbanriot:

Can you relay the sku for the educational Microsoft Security Essentials license?

It's called Microsoft Forefront: »www.microsoft.com/forefront/en/c···ult.aspx

I know what the intentions of Microsoft are

Within the context of my posts, I was making a point that it's not so cut and dry. You can't simply license a Windows Update with an educational sku.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

I can't think off hand if I've ever seen a Windows Update with licensing ramifications.

Any non-OS add-on offered via Wupdate requires you 'agree' to licensing terms.

Off-hand I can't recall anything in particular that was limited to 10 per customer, either, but it doesn't strike me as unusual.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

said by dave:

said by urbanriot:

I can't think off hand if I've ever seen a Windows Update with licensing ramifications.

Any non-OS add-on offered via Wupdate requires you 'agree' to licensing terms.

That's a good point, the licensing does appear when you run through the update. I'm certainly guilty of ignoring it just as I'm sure the majority of Windows users are.

(Ironic that I sought out the licensing terms on the internet when I could have simply tried installing it.)

I still believe this licensing model is out of line with the rest of Microsoft updates.