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SG79

join:2009-05-27
New York, NY
reply to navyson

Re: Horrible youtube speeds

Verizon Wireless actually uses a different backbone and is totally separate from FiOS (separate company as well). In NYC, VZW uses Level 3 for its backbone.


Pzykotic

join:2002-06-27
Arlington, MA
reply to AlanM

13 pages, has there been any sort of useful official response?

Oh, who am I kidding. There's better information on this website about how to "fix" FiOS' frustrating foibles than even the network technicians who work for VZ are aware of. I find that pretty pathetic.


Max Greene

join:2000-12-22
Bayonne, NJ
Reviews:
·Boost Mobile

said by Pzykotic:

13 pages, has there been any sort of useful official response?

Oh, who am I kidding. There's better information on this website about how to "fix" FiOS' frustrating foibles than even the network technicians who work for VZ are aware of. I find that pretty pathetic.

Have you tried the "fix" listed in this thread?

Pzykotic

join:2002-06-27
Arlington, MA
reply to AlanM

I have, and I don't mean to sound hostile to this thread in particular. It's great there's so much helpful info, but frustrating that the company I pay $200+/mo to can't fix the few glaring issues FiOS has that hold it back from being a truly impressive internet provider.

I also appreciate you putting quotes around "fix" because they are definitely more like kludges



Onedollar

join:2001-08-27
Pomona, CA
kudos:6
reply to AlanM

said by Pzykotic:

I have, and I don't mean to sound hostile to this thread in particular. It's great there's so much helpful info, but frustrating that the company I pay $200+/mo to can't fix the few glaring issues FiOS has that hold it back from being a truly impressive internet provider.

I also appreciate you putting quotes around "fix" because they are definitely more like kludges

and again, as stated what makes you think VZ has control over google's CDN in what they do?

Edit, response to Pzy, not OP

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to Pzykotic

It's not the backbone, if they hosted it in a Terremark CDN it would work better, but I'm sorry to say that everyone I talk to can't stream youtube from 5-11PM reliably. But at the same time I can stream 2 hidef streams from Netflix no problem or anything else. And as far as I know Verizon hasn't signed up for Netflix CDN yet.

I run my own DNS servers and have played with the

Plain and simple Youtube sucks and the fact that they use flash doesn't help. Maybe when HTML5 gets migrated it gets better, but Google is not doing a good job here.

Expand your moderator at work


houkouonchi

join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to birdfeedr

Re: Horrible youtube speeds

said by birdfeedr:

Please check out this link as a start. You need to know a little more about tier-1 carriers. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network

Here's a list of large Tier-2 carriers. Note the second paragraph of the text. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network

Google is not on this list, although that does not mean it is not tier-2.
A tier-2 purchases transit from a tier-1, not the other way. Tier-3 typically purchases transit from a tier-2.

Purchase cost includes bandwidth. If you have a skinny pipe because that's all you're willing to pay, peak time access will suffer.

Comcast is a tier-2 ISP. Get a traceroute from a comcast address to youtube to see who provides transit.

From my VZ address, traceroute to youtube goes through Verizon through alter.net to the google gateway. While alter.net is a verizon business component, there's lots of folks who know VZ's right hand doesn't know what its left hand is doing.

said by guppy_fish:

None of that happened ... if you spend more time than a Quick search.

NetFix and Google ( primarily YouTube ) are almost 50% of peak traffic now ( more than doubled since 2010 ) and they don't transit other peoples traffic, they only push bits.

Verizon doesn't pay anyone for traffic, as there a tier one network, meaning they ARE the internet, or a large part of it in the US. Verizon has no data caps, they will happily deliver bits day and night.

Google has to pay for the traffic they push, about 10% of the peak bandwidth, just like any other commercial enterprise, the problem for Google, unlike Netflix, which all Netflix customers are paying customers, Google floods out video for "free" to its viewers, and takes in money from advertising, to the tune of almost 3 billion.

Free does pay the bills for footing 10% of the US peak bandwidth

So the fix is YouTube becomes subscription based or Google pays for pushing its Videos, Google then buys peering to match the traffic, just like Nextflix does which by the way isn't having any issues.

Google by the way can purchase peering from many sources, not one has to be Verizon, and they do, like using X/O communications, they need more, its there business and there decision on what to do.

At some point, a company gets so large in their needs, the most cost effective approach is to become a tier one provider, which means a nation wide network which they can plunk down 10's of billions to build and then can push all the traffic ( and carry it ) just like all the other tier one carriers for no peering costs.

The two most accurate description of the problem in this thread. Sorry this is all on Google's end.
--
300/150 mbit Bonded Verizon FiOS connection FTW!

Bytezboy

join:2001-05-17
New York, NY
reply to AlanM

I was streaming the Samsung Galaxy S4 event in 720p at 7PM on warner cable without any buffering.
--
75/35 Fios, Triple Play Extreme.


alanisrox69

join:2005-03-29
LHV, PA
reply to AlanM

Should also be noted the advertisement videos (before a video) load fast and full -- even the +90 second ones in HD (movie trailers).
--
CHECK YOUR FSLC TAXES!!!



HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Jerseyastan
reply to AlanM

it is very bad today, to say its completely hosed would be an understatement....



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to elefante72

said by elefante72:

It's not the backbone, if they hosted it in a Terremark CDN it would work better, but I'm sorry to say that everyone I talk to can't stream youtube from 5-11PM reliably. But at the same time I can stream 2 hidef streams from Netflix no problem or anything else. And as far as I know Verizon hasn't signed up for Netflix CDN yet.

I run my own DNS servers and have played with the

Plain and simple Youtube sucks and the fact that they use flash doesn't help. Maybe when HTML5 gets migrated it gets better, but Google is not doing a good job here.

Works like a charm on Time Warner ultimate internet here even at peak time usage hours. I been checking this forum since I am ordering fios due to upstream packet loss on time warner, but this thread is 1 small red flag to me with fios so far.

knarf829

join:2007-06-02
kudos:1
reply to HD_Ride

said by HD_Ride:

it is very bad today, to say its completely hosed would be an understatement....

I must have watched more than a dozen videos of varying qualities up to 1080p last night from 9PM to 1AM ET here (SE Pennsylvania) without a single glitch or buffer.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to kilrathi

I have 50/25 FioS and changing this 23 minute vid to 1080p, the whole thing downloaded in 2 minutes flat . No troubles here, but I dont watch youtube often.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=96vQk-RTmlQ

djbis

join:2002-08-07
Wilmington, DE
reply to MrFujiKicker

i tried to handle the IP blocking through my router and the results have not changed much. The first few days it seemed better, but I still have really bad days. So I don't know if the change has made any difference. Youtube buffering results have always been inconsistent.



danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

Not sure why my previous comment was removed. Again all these changes to routers and blocking do not seem to change or enhance performance. There is no evidence that they are having the desired effect of improving streaming from google consistently.

Any change seen is either temporary or placebo or is taking place during non peak hours when you would expect to see improved performance.



frankpf3
Verizon Fios

join:2007-08-09
Huntington Station, NY
kudos:1

I think I found the real issue here. I was watching You Tube videos last night on my iPad.

Using the downloaded YouTube app, video was HORRIBLE. Choppy, couldn't download entire video.

I then watched the same video via youtube web site via Safari browser, no problems what so ever.

This was about 9pm EST last night.

Could this just be related to the you tube app provided by Google?



TweakerInWA
Optimus
Premium
join:2001-12-11
Las Vegas, NV

Unlikely, I seem to get crappy streaming regardless of browser on my desktop or tablet, or if using the app on my Sony TV, phone, tablet... All pretty crappy including IE on the xbox or the Xbox youtube app... I dunno..
--
Smoke'm if ya got'em !!!


navyson

join:2011-07-15
Upper Marlboro, MD
reply to AlanM

With the IP range blocked, youtube streaming has been inconsistent. Initially, it seems to work the first week. Then, it went back to how it was.

This week, everything seem to stream okay from my laptop, desktop and roku box(youtube app).

Keeping my fingers crossed.



TweakerInWA
Optimus
Premium
join:2001-12-11
Las Vegas, NV

1 edit
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

I have 50/25 FioS and changing this 23 minute vid to 1080p, the whole thing downloaded in 2 minutes flat . No troubles here, but I dont watch youtube often.

The GT-R review is tons better !!!!
--
Smoke'm if ya got'em !!!

djbis

join:2002-08-07
Wilmington, DE
reply to navyson

Totally agree.


djbis

join:2002-08-07
Wilmington, DE
reply to danclan

Exactly my thoughts at this point.


djbis

join:2002-08-07
Wilmington, DE
reply to AlanM

I did not have this problem with Comcast in my area, and I had 5/10 speed with them. Now I have 150/65.
Ever since I got Fios it has been a nightmare trying to enjoy almost any videos on youtube.

Using apps, specially the Youtube app is the worst ever.

Don't know what to think. Nobody seems to know exactly what the problem is and who is at fault.

NOTE: Could it be a router issue? I assume most of us are dealing with the stupid Actiontech router that verizon gives us. People have told me that its the router so to test I hooked up OLD FAITHFUL, an old Linksys, and for the couple of hours that I had it hooked up I actually saw a big improvement with youtube! But the thing is, I only tested it for a short amount of time.

Are there any Fios customers using other routers? What is their experience on Youtube?


Jcink

join:2005-12-19
none

It's not a router issue, no. You probably just got lucky. I have never used the verizon router because I pay for FiOS business and I suffer slow speeds.



vishal207

@verizon.net

I too am having issues in the arlington/dc area! so annoying!!!



houkouonchi

join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to djbis

said by djbis:

Don't know what to think. Nobody seems to know exactly what the problem is and who is at fault.

People who work in the networking industry (isps/ content providers/etc) know whos fault it is and what the problem is.

Its been said before.

Verizon (along with a select few others) is a tier1 transit provider. This basically means they 'are' the internet and do settlement free peering with all the other tier1 providers. This means bandwidth does not cost them money (they just have to increase their capacity). Google *buys* bandwidth from people. They bought bandwidth (or paid for peering) with Verizon and they are running their links at capacity.

Google could modify their BGP and push traffic to VZ over their other transit providers and fix it or they could pay VZ more money and buy more capacity. Its on google though. There is *Nothing* vz can do about this.

Now a lot of ISPs that are not tier1 transit providers like vz are happy to pier with google (usually for free) because that means they aren't paying for bandwidth used on their transit connections when traffic comes from google as they also have to pay for transit. VZ has no obligation or reason to do this because they don't have to pay for transit/bandwidth costs. If anything their is an incentive not to offer free peering because they could otherwise get money from that person as a customer instead.

Its not that difficult to understand.

Its like saying its vz should force a customer on a higher speed fios package because they saturate their connection alot. Its the customer's choice not the provider.
--
300/150 mbit Bonded Verizon FiOS connection FTW!


finally

@verizon.net
reply to vishal207

i was so pist off for two months because of youtube, i almost gave up on it. I tried the fix by adding the ip addresses to the advanced firewall section of my verizon router. I also added the browser config options below:

if you are using chrome browse, type 'chrome://flags' in the address bar of the browser. It will open a config page and look for an option to enable 'experimental pipelining'. You will then need to scroll down and click the restart button on the bottom after clicking the enable link for pipelining.

In firefox, use this »dilipb.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-···ing.html .

I now get 90000 kbps on my youtube videos following these steps. Not sure about IE.



finally

@verizon.net

Here is the link to add the ip address blocks to your verizon router.

»How-to: Reddit YouTube firewall rule with MI424wr


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to AlanM

The primary reason cable company's and even Verizon wireless ( which is not a tier one provider ) is faster / better response with YouTube content is they cache most YouTube content within their network ( copy the content to locally servers owned by the ISP ), they don't do this for the end user, they do this because it saves money by not having to keep paying for the same content over and over again ( transits networks charges )

Verizon, our ISP, pays no such charges so there is no economic reason to have to buy, maintain and mange the caching servers.

Its as simple as that, Verizon users get there content direct from Google and is dependent on Google's resources ... tier two and three provider have local copies since its costs less overall



Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
reply to AlanM

I've noticed that YouTube streaming has been pretty bad for the past couple of weeks. Prior to that, I had no issues. I tried both of the "fixes" linked to by "finally", 2 and 3 posts previous and there has been no improvement.

A vid will run for 10 - 15 secs, run out the buffer, hang for 5 - 10 secs and then continue and repeat. I did notice that it NEVER seems to happen in the prefix ads, if you let them run their full length...

I've used the YouTube app on my Samsung BluRay player. That's connected over my wireless LAN and there are no hangs with it.

I'm on a 25/25 provision that consistently tests at ~30d x 25u.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons