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Jamin

@verizon.net
reply to AlanM

Re: Horrible youtube speeds

OMG I thought I was the only one with youtube and this issue. I even bought 100 foot Ethernet cable to run it to my PC cause they told me it was the wireless and I still cannot watch anything unless it's like mid-day I hope this issue is fixed soon. What I do not understand is my cell phone using the same internet can run videos better over the WiFi.

lolwatpear

join:2012-07-03
Wesley Chapel, FL
reply to AlanM
HTML5 does not help at help at all. If you saw a speed increase, it was only a coincidence. Throughout the day I occasionally have good youtube speeds.

All I know is that I'm paying a shit ton of money and not getting my moneys worth. Whether it be google or verizon, they better fix this nonesense as youtube is my primary entertainment medium.

JohnGalt21

join:2012-12-14
Ridgefield, NJ
said by lolwatpear:

HTML5 does not help at help at all. If you saw a speed increase, it was only a coincidence. Throughout the day I occasionally have good youtube speeds.

Maybe you are having a different issue than me and the other poster then, because I never had good youtube speeds before (with FiOS that is). In my case youtube videos would be really slow at buffering. I would be able to watch it for 10 seconds, and then it would stop for like a minute, before it buffered another small piece, and pause again.

Now any video I open in HTML5 mode, buffers the entire stream right away, instead of stopping after a few seconds. This is something I've been able to reproduce every single time on a number of different videos. And the moment I go back to the Flash version, the problem comes back. It is also independent of the browser I use (tried with Firefox and IE).

Granted, I've only been trying HTML5 for 2 days, so it may change. I'll give it another week, and if there are no more problems, then I'm a happy customer.


somebodeez
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-24
here
reply to AlanM
YouTube is pretty much ok for me during the day. Towards the evening, it's unusable.


Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1
said by somebodeez:

YouTube is pretty much ok for me during the day. Towards the evening, it's unusable.

Yup.. I think if I plan to use youtube at all later in the evening I will just connect to phone hotspot. Which is sad cause I get VERY poor cell signal, yet its like 20x faster than fios on youtube. Atleast it's reliable and I know my videos will never buffer and not work.

It's ridiculous and I don't care what anyone says I know it's a problem with FIOS, this doesn't happen EVER with my poor signal cellphone wifi hot spot.

--
75/35 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com


houkouonchi

join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

said by Vamp:

It's ridiculous and I don't care what anyone says I know it's a problem with FIOS, this doesn't happen EVER with my poor signal cellphone wifi hot spot.

I love ignorant responses like this. Only people who have no clue how the internet works would say something like that. Google gets its access to the internet by buying peering/transit from various providers (like Cogent, Level3, Alter.net (Verizon), XO, above.net, etc...). BGP is used to decide which transit/peer link the traffic should go through when they send traffic to $X prefix/subnet. In the case of sending to VZ's AS number they probably always send it over their transit to alter.net (VZ) which they pay VZ for.

Eventually they are running this link at capacity but they are still sending more and more traffic over it and then it gets high latency/packetloss during peak hours where usage is highest.

Google has two options.

1) Buy more transit/peering from VZ so they aren't saturating their current link.
2) Modify their BGP to route to some of VZ's prefixes over one of their other less used transit providers (like level3, which google does have but I don't know what the usage looks like) to lessen their load on their saturated connections to VZ. This would be trans-versing more routers and be less efficient but vs going over a saturated connection would offer superior performance.

What is VZ capable of doing?

1) Inform their customer they are saturating their links and to buy more transit.
2) Desperate to please FIOS customers bitching about youtube offer google more transit/bandwidth for free even though they have every right to charge for said links/bandwidth usage.

Do you really expect them to do the second option? I seriously doubt it and there is no reason they should. When you are a tier1 provider like VZ is (due to its aquisition of then UUnet (now alter.net) its pretty much never the tier1 providers fault for saturation unless its between two tier1 providers and said providers haven't added more capacity where its needed. However this is rarely the case. Its usually customers saturating their links who don't want to pay more money or try to strong-arm the providers into cheap prices for bandwidth due to complaints from their customers.

Atleast VZ providers support. Support is completely non-existent from google. I wonder why everyone seems to think Google is the Greatest thing since sliced bread and they can do no wrong?

I can just about guarantee you that in the case of a residential ISP google -> VZ the traffic is hugely lop-sided on google's side for outbound traffic. The reverse is true when your a web-hosting provider. At my old job we peered with google and it was primarily outbound due to the crawlers eating up bandwidth. The point is that the person with the most control to re-direct traffic is the sender of said traffic. You can somewhat change how traffic is received by what you are advertising on BGP but this issue is definitely more in the control of google to fix.
--
300/150 mbit Bonded Verizon FiOS connection FTW!

batsona
Maryland

join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Verizon FiOS
reply to AlanM
I've done the HTML5 opt-in on 3 computers in my house, and I get perfect buffering about 8 out of 10 times. This is an improvement over zero-out-of-ten attempts. I'll take it....

Weird..if we're seeing these results, does it mean that bandwidth is actually NOT the issue being talked about in this thread? Google / Youtube is prioritizing HTML5 traffic?

batsona
Maryland

join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Verizon FiOS
reply to houkouonchi
To Mr. houkouonchi: Since VZ is a tier-1 provider, that means 'everyone-elses' traffic is transiting VZ's network and help to saturate that peering point with Google. Oddly enough, if we were to be on any other tier-2 provider, we might not have this problem, as long as they didn't use VZ as transit to get to Google?

An other interesting question: What would make Google care enough to increase their bandwidth with VZ? a.)Massive numbers of customer complaints? b.)Google mgmt asking, hey, why have our hits-per-timeperiod become flat?? (no more views can be accomplished, if all bandwidth is saturated...)


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..

4 edits
said by batsona:

To Mr. houkouonchi: Since VZ is a tier-1 provider, that means 'everyone-elses' traffic is transiting VZ's network and help to saturate that peering point with Google. Oddly enough, if we were to be on any other tier-2 provider, we might not have this problem, as long as they didn't use VZ as transit to get to Google?

An other interesting question: What would make Google care enough to increase their bandwidth with VZ? a.)Massive numbers of customer complaints? b.)Google mgmt asking, hey, why have our hits-per- become flat?? (no more views can be accomplished, if all bandwidth is saturated...)

Not necessarily. It could mean Verizon is supplying Dark Fiber to other providers, and they're allowed to manage how they route things. If they're using Lit Fiber services then perhaps you'll get Verizon's own peering point or perhaps you'll get some more private paths (it's not uncommon to set up virtual circuits or tunnels across a path shared with the Tier1's own traffic or other networks' traffic). Don't forget, it's been well known that some providers already run their own caches on-network to cut on bandwidth costs associated with having to transverse other networks (esp. if you pay for peering or pay for volume rather than capacity, or are cash-strapped enough to not be able to afford huge pipes as a small provider). There have also been projects out there that crawl and benchmark YouTube on a local standpoint, that proves how YouTube routes, what servers are being hit, and in the process they benchmark response, throughput, any anomalies with video download and also log popularity. These projects show plenty as to what is happening.

What I've personally noticed in the Northeast with YouTube is what seems to be server load issues rather than peering issues when it comes to Verizon. While all data has to transverse the Verizon network and make it's way directly to Google's network, I don't have latency issues with other Google services or encounter slow speeds to other Google resources (SVN, GMail, Maps, etc) that go over the same exact circuits and peering points. In addition with YouTube, I can server/cache hop and almost all of the time dramatically improve the throughput to maxing out my connection. In the past when YouTube first turned on HQ and HD Streaming, yes there were peering issues as bandwidth demand grew too fast, too soon, and back then all Google properties had issues with latency. Regardless, unless someone here works for Google, it's hard to also say if Google is not supplying enough capacity in their very own network for YouTube traffic but supplies enough to handle all of the rest of their own traffic. It's quite a complex system and needs a lot more analysis than simply blaming Verizon and looking at a traceroute and blaming a single router.

To add to the flame, Time Warner cable is also in this area as an ISP, and YouTube runs equally as bad on them as it does on Verizon, if not a bit worse and that traffic is all coming in from Chicago or New York City which is a more diverse route than Verizon has. Frontier is also in this area and they've not had too many YouTube issues, but they've also been known to run cache servers for Google's website on-network too.

Also, consider the following: Google hosts their own Advertisements on YouTube. Why do the ads never have problems, if they go over the same network and a bunch are also in HD? Even if Videos load slowly, the advertising revenue still comes in as the ads rotate or as the user reloads the player to try to get a better server.


Dirk Daring

join:2000-08-03
Ashburn, VA
/rude Verizon. Still slow as sin. I really didn't want to buy a VPN somewhere but now I'm seriously considering it.


Prairie Dog
Here's Looking At You Kid
Premium
join:2000-08-09
Langhorne, PA
reply to AlanM
Ok guys, I have experienced the same problems with YouTube stalling, stopping, etc. In desperation, I downloaded this. SmartVideo For YouTube I have noticed a definite improvement.

»addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox···-mytube/


28619103
Premium
join:2009-03-01
21435
reply to houkouonchi
QFT
said by houkouonchi:

The point is that the person with the most control to re-direct traffic is the sender of said traffic. You can somewhat change how traffic is received by what you are advertising on BGP but this issue is definitely more in the control of google to fix.

While this is very true and can easily be the problem. Another problem that may be the culprit is YouTube servers that Google is choosing to use for Verizon are overloaded. Before blaming and ISP people should run through a quick litmus test

1) I'm having problem with many sites - Probably your ISP
2) I'm having a problem with 1 site - Probably the site

Check my other post on youtube speed issue analysis »Re: Horrible youtube speeds
Expand your moderator at work


RichardHead

@verizon.net
reply to houkouonchi

Re: Horrible youtube speeds

Tier 1 provider? Verizon is a monopoly protected crony of the US government. It's not a provider of anything, except force and violence, which the US government utilizes to prop up corrupt entities like Verizon. It's services are not open to competition, it's a regulated entity meaning it has the favor the State which creates law, and with whom Verizon partners.

You sound like you're a big advocate of Verizon. Guess what. Verizon can't go out of business. It's protected by the State. Because it has this protection, it isn't exactly concerned with customer service.

Verizon sucks. As do all other the State-protected cable companies and telcos. They're nothing but a gun pointed at the heads of "customers".

hubrisnxs

join:2009-12-30
Fountain Valley, CA
kudos:2
o_O

serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to AlanM
said by RichardHead :

It's not a provider of anything, except force and violence, which the US government utilizes to prop up corrupt entities like Verizon.

Huh?


mrbisshie

@verizon.net
reply to AlanM
Well, I know for a fact that it's a Verizon issue, wanna know how I know? Because using a proxy, the videos load just fine. For some reason Verizon /3 Youtube. Wanna try it for your self? Just use this proxy for all your Youtubing when it begins to buffer at 6kbs.
»www.proxfree.com/

serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by mrbisshie :

Well, I know for a fact that it's a Verizon issue, wanna know how I know? Because using a proxy, the videos load just fine. For some reason Verizon /3 Youtube. Wanna try it for your self? Just use this proxy for all your Youtubing when it begins to buffer at 6kbs.
»www.proxfree.com/

Wow that is amazing. Sad that some proxy site delivers instantaneous loading even on 1080p videos while Verizon(a Tier 1 network) struggles with 480p. It used to be that the free online proxy websites were slow even at loading a simple webpage with no video/flash content not the other way around...


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
or it could be that the proxy site merely caches popular videos so it doesn't have to pull them 2x. Using a proxy site does not disprove that it's not a Google issue.

Also keep in mind nearly ALL major Cable/telco customers are reporting slowdown issues from google.

zippoboy7

join:2006-06-18
USA
said by danclan:

or it could be that the proxy site merely caches popular videos so it doesn't have to pull them 2x. Using a proxy site does not disprove that it's not a Google issue.

Also keep in mind nearly ALL major Cable/telco customers are reporting slowdown issues from google.

Sadly you cant explain this to these people, they will not accept the fact that Google is extremely oversubscribing there connections to ISPs. houkouonchi has explained it best (and is someone who knows what he is talking about) and yet people just go on ignoring him or saying he is wrong.

I will say this, I know of several company's that moved there email to Google Apps who have since moved to another "cloud" provider or back to hosting it themselves due to the same kinds of Youtube slowdowns on there email, the problem is not as noticeable until you start dealing with large file/video transfers, searching or reading simple emails experience the same problems however since the file sizes are a lot smaller they are not as noticeable.

The only way you get around it is by either having a peering agreement with Google or having an ISP that caches a lot of Youtubes trash thereby limiting the amount of data that they need to request from Google.

I will say it again since it needs to be said this is NOT Verizon's problem, Google needs to increase their connections to a lot of ISP's not just Verizon and until they do you will continue to see the same problems. The problem here (This is from someone at Google who I know personally) is Google wants everything for free due to their size and they are refusing to increase there connection sizes, this is also part of the reason you are seeing Google Fiber, it is to push other ISPs to improve there connections with Google using the threat that they will just take over.

serge87

join:2009-11-29
reply to AlanM
If this is true then it is a little embarrassing for Google. I mean, all that dark fiber they bought up years ago and now bragging about how great Google Fiber is, yet they can't even serve up enough bandwidth for Youtube...


MDUser

@verizon.net
Definitely Verizon issue. I watch youtube videos that are not so popular. I tried at least 20 times with all sorts of fixes, nothing worked. Tried proxy, it worked like a charm, no buffering. Kind of makes me mad that I am paying big bucks for 50mbps download and getting a crappy service from verizon.

lolwatpear

join:2012-07-03
Wesley Chapel, FL

1 edit
reply to zippoboy7
said by zippoboy7:

said by danclan:

or it could be that the proxy site merely caches popular videos so it doesn't have to pull them 2x. Using a proxy site does not disprove that it's not a Google issue.

Also keep in mind nearly ALL major Cable/telco customers are reporting slowdown issues from google.

Sadly you cant explain this to these people, they will not accept the fact that Google is extremely oversubscribing there connections to ISPs. houkouonchi has explained it best (and is someone who knows what he is talking about) and yet people just go on ignoring him or saying he is wrong.

I will say this, I know of several company's that moved there email to Google Apps who have since moved to another "cloud" provider or back to hosting it themselves due to the same kinds of Youtube slowdowns on there email, the problem is not as noticeable until you start dealing with large file/video transfers, searching or reading simple emails experience the same problems however since the file sizes are a lot smaller they are not as noticeable.

The only way you get around it is by either having a peering agreement with Google or having an ISP that caches a lot of Youtubes trash thereby limiting the amount of data that they need to request from Google.

I will say it again since it needs to be said this is NOT Verizon's problem, Google needs to increase their connections to a lot of ISP's not just Verizon and until they do you will continue to see the same problems. The problem here (This is from someone at Google who I know personally) is Google wants everything for free due to their size and they are refusing to increase there connection sizes, this is also part of the reason you are seeing Google Fiber, it is to push other ISPs to improve there connections with Google using the threat that they will just take over.

That's great and all, but Google's youtube is not 'free'. Not only is it not free, they make major profit with the advertisement on it. So here I am, the consumer, paying hundreds a month for a fast service, being forced to watch ads (w/o a blocker), and I'm not getting anything back. When you can barely stream a friggin 240p video, something is wrong here.

The truth is that google is a failure and has ruined everything they've touched since being solely a search engine. I miss the youtube of 6 years ago when it was in its prime.

nyrrule27

join:2007-12-06
Howell, NJ
this is the way it was worded to me

Every company ,Like Youtube, that connect to Verizon buys access to a road. On that road they can only fit so many cars at one time. Now youtube may have bought the same size road from VZ and other carriers. but, VZ has so many more customers (best numbers I could find -- 5.4 million total FiOS Internet , about 3 million for Cablevision)
So VZ has more customers wanting deliveries, But Youtube won't buy a bigger access road to VZ


flexo

@verizon.net
Well, I was getting terrible performance just now and went into the admin tool for the router and rebooted it and it cleared up. Give it a try. Only takes a minute or so.

brmathews

join:2003-09-04
Pittsburgh, PA
reply to serge87
I used proxfree.com on a video tonight and it loaded in second vs not loading at all on FIOS.

Interestingly enough. On my phone, when I want to watch videos, I switch OFF wireless to use VZW which doesn't have streaming issues. So apparently VZW and Verizon must not share the same connections to youtube.

zippoboy7

join:2006-06-18
USA
said by brmathews:

Interestingly enough. On my phone, when I want to watch videos, I switch OFF wireless to use VZW which doesn't have streaming issues. So apparently VZW and Verizon must not share the same connections to youtube.

First and foremost Verizon FiOS and Verizon Wireless are considered separate and distinct company's under the Verizon name, the same goes for Verizon Business (Formerly Alter.net/MCI). Verizon FiOS is 100% owned and operated by Verizon and buys transit from Verizon Business while Verizon Wireless is a 50/50 split with Verizon/Vodafone.

With the above said Verizon Wireless does NOT use Verizon Business services for all of there transit. Most of there transit is using Level 3 without ever touching Verizon Business.

Here is a trace from my FiOS connection to the External NAT IP that my VZW phone is using. Notice at hop 5 -> 6 it leave alter.net (Verizon Business) and heads off to Level3 and never comes back onto the Verizon Business backbone after that. This is why Verizon Wireless Youtube is working better then the FiOS connections and why people need to stop comparing the two.

traceroute to 70.192.206.117 (70.192.206.117), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  0.180 ms  0.139 ms  0.119 ms
 2  L100.BLTMMD-VFTTP-14.verizon-gni.net (72.81.130.1)  2.039 ms  2.156 ms  2.274 ms
 3  G0-5-2-4.BLTMMD-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net (130.81.49.2)  4.597 ms  4.711 ms  4.696 ms
 4  so-6-1-0-0.PHIL-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.199.4)  38.138 ms  38.196 ms  38.182 ms
 5  0.xe-2-1-0.BR2.IAD8.ALTER.NET (152.63.5.245)  7.596 ms  7.652 ms  7.627 ms
 6  ae17.edge1.washingtondc12.level3.net (4.68.62.137)  7.682 ms  9.117 ms  9.232 ms
 7  vl-3603-ve-227.ebr2.Washington12.Level3.net (4.69.158.42)  9.767 ms vl-3602-ve-226.ebr2.Washington12.Level3.net (4.69.158.38)  8.366 ms vl-3504-ve-118.ebr1.Washington12.Level3.net (4.69.158.30)  8.336 ms
 8  ae-5-5.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.143.221)  8.300 ms ae-8-8.ebr1.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.143.217)  8.611 ms  9.951 ms
 9  ae-71-71.csw2.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.134.134)  12.892 ms ae-72-72.csw2.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.134.150)  9.904 ms ae-71-71.csw2.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.134.134)  12.849 ms
10  ae-1-60.edge3.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.149.17)  9.928 ms ae-3-80.edge3.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.149.145)  9.868 ms  9.846 ms
11  4.59.144.26 (4.59.144.26)  12.414 ms  12.026 ms  12.250 ms
12  86.sub-66-174-9.myvzw.com (66.174.9.86)  13.654 ms  13.627 ms  12.872 ms
13  195.sub-69-83-17.myvzw.com (69.83.17.195)  11.766 ms  11.440 ms  11.351 ms
14  * * *
 


Chad S

@verizon.net
So, just as an aside, you can use various methods to find what youtube IP is giving you issues and block that directly.

For instance, I blocked 208.117.251.52, and the 1080p video that had stalled went to full buffer before I could even tab back over.

Just do a little leg work, and there's an easy fix.


somebodeez
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-24
here
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to mrbisshie
said by mrbisshie :

Well, I know for a fact that it's a Verizon issue, wanna know how I know? Because using a proxy, the videos load just fine. For some reason Verizon /3 Youtube. Wanna try it for your self? Just use this proxy for all your Youtubing when it begins to buffer at 6kbs.
»www.proxfree.com/

Youtube is, as always this time of evening, unusable for me. I tried proxfree and boom! No more problems. :O
I have no understanding of the various whys or theories or whatever on that. All I know is the results that I am personally experiencing.

Thank you very much for posting that link!

courty3210

join:2004-03-29
Wilmington, DE
i have the same problem.....youtube does not like to load videos on any of my various devices (computers, phone, etc...) but hulu, netflix, vimeo all stream HD like champs.....i also went through proxfree.com and then everything loaded great......youtube and verizon fios definitely aren't working together at least in my household

wilmington, de