bohratomMy Jersey Giants finally winning again.. join:2011-07-07 Red Bank NJ 1 edit |
to navyson
Re: Horrible youtube speedssaid by navyson:Something has changed since then to cause youtube using Verizon FIOS going downhill. providers. If you scroll up afew you will see that nycdave explained the reason for the slow speeds. Sad part is no time frame on when it will be rectified. "Until Google provides more peering capacity with Verizon, the problem will continue. Verizon can't force Google to increase Google's peering links to increase traffic from Verizon" |
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navyson join:2011-07-15 Upper Marlboro, MD |
to AlanM
Did Google decrease the "peering" capacity since the summer of 2012 when NBC in partnership with youtube had live streaming of the Olympics?
I had no problems watching 1080p live coverage during the Olympics this past summer. Now, it is February, a few months after the fact and at times, I can barely stream a 360p video.
Did google cut back on the peering links since then? I can only assume there were alot more streaming requests from Verizon customers during the Olympics than what we have now. |
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shmee join:2005-04-03 Phoenixville, PA |
to AlanM
i'm just happy to finally see that i'm not alone with this issue. it was really driving me nuts. i was resetting my routers, running dns benchmarks and switching around nameservers, so on and so forth, all because of this horrible youtube buffering.
i just recently got into minecraft pretty heavily (yeah, i know... i'm late to the party!) and i'm dying to watch the myriad of youtube videos with respect to the game and its content, but it's been utterly miserable trying to slug through with things as they are right now. :/ |
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nycdave MVM join:1999-11-16 Melville, NY |
to navyson
It's increased traffic due to more customers on FiOS - if Google doesn't increase their peering capacity as the traffic increases, you see what happens..... |
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navyson join:2011-07-15 Upper Marlboro, MD 1 edit |
said by nycdave:It's increased traffic due to more customers on FiOS - if Google doesn't increase their peering capacity as the traffic increases, you see what happens..... Since you seem to be someone in the know, do you know if Verizon has requested Google to increase the peering links? If this issue isn't resolved, when Verizon introduces its new DVR a few months from now that has a youtube channel, that channel will basically be worthless if you can stream anything from youtube. I don't want to hear that is just a youtube problem. Verizon needs to work proactviely with google/youtube to solve this issue. Youtube is one of the most visited sites on the internet and my hope is that that Verizon would not want to follow ignore this obviously big issue. |
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navyson 1 edit |
to nycdave
said by nycdave:It's increased traffic due to more customers on FiOS - if Google doesn't increase their peering capacity as the traffic increases, you see what happens..... Comcast has millions more broadband customers than FIOS and their customers don't seem to have alot of complaints with youtube streaming. I came from Comcast to FIOS and I don't remember having youtube issues. I spoke with two friends of mine on Comcast now and they both don't have any problems streaming youtube videos. Comcast can have the foresight to make sure it has enough peering links to youtube and Verizon didn't make sure it had enough? Something is wrong here. |
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Please check out this link as a start. You need to know a little more about tier-1 carriers. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti ··· _networkHere's a list of large Tier-2 carriers. Note the second paragraph of the text. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti ··· _networkGoogle is not on this list, although that does not mean it is not tier-2. A tier-2 purchases transit from a tier-1, not the other way. Tier-3 typically purchases transit from a tier-2. Purchase cost includes bandwidth. If you have a skinny pipe because that's all you're willing to pay, peak time access will suffer. Comcast is a tier-2 ISP. Get a traceroute from a comcast address to youtube to see who provides transit. From my VZ address, traceroute to youtube goes through Verizon through alter.net to the google gateway. While alter.net is a verizon business component, there's lots of folks who know VZ's right hand doesn't know what its left hand is doing. You may find a traceroute to youtube from home a bit different than one from work. You can't tell if the hop is on a fat pipe or a skinny pipe, but I'll bet if a hop is showing packet loss and lag, it's a skinny pipe or it has a lot of traffic going through it. I believe the recent FiOS slowdowns are almost certainly the result of rapid expansion into Quantum tiers. That's the single most recent event with the largest impact on network congestion. As FiOS subscribers continue to complain about network congestion, it will get addressed. Changes to a tier-1 network are never quickly made. Someone has already said it will take about 3 or 4 months for the network to settle down, same as it did when FiOS pushed the envelope with the new high-speed tiers back in 2010 and several times since then. One really interesting problem is how google's gigabit fiber in Kansas City will transit to the internet. |
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1 recommendation |
to AlanM
Someone from Reddit figured out the solution to remove the whole Google Peering or the whole intentional bandwidth throttling by Google. » www.reddit.com/r/technol ··· _stream/ sort by: TopBasically, you need to block out the IP range that causes the bandwidth throttling, while you're trying to watch a Youtube under any video bitrate. I've tested this out and it works really well, utilizes my maximum bandwidth without any buffer. Block IP from 206.111.0.0 to 206.111.255.255 within your Inbound Rules of your Windows Firewall. This link will help you proceed through the process on how to block the IP ranges: » www.studyblog.net/2011/1 ··· irewall/ Under step 9, where you input the IPs, it's best to select "This IP address range" for easier inputs of your IP range. Once you set this all up, you'll be able to watch any Youtube video with your glorious speeds. |
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Pureblood'Let's Go Brandon' Premium Member join:2000-10-18 PorkRoll NJ |
Thank you, I just configured the rule and I'll see what happens later today |
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guppy_fish Premium Member join:2003-12-09 Palm Harbor, FL |
to AlanM
If you want to see where the YouTube /Google content is actually coming from, open a command window and type netstat, this will list all open network connections
From there you will find the IP of where the YouTube is sending the video from. The above IP block is all owned be XO communications. |
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to AlanM
The issue is a Verizon FIOS throttling problem more than anything.
The people saying Google needs to pay Verizon for peering is a very common ISP argument against content providers. And it's one of the pinnacle arguments for network neutrality today, and why it has been such a big thing over the years.
I encourage you to contact the FCC and your representatives.
Essentially, the ISPs pay more for the amount of data that transits through their providers. So, to make this simple, if I'm on Comcast, and you're on Verizon, Verizon pays for the amount of bandwidth you use to me. This is also why they've wanted to heavily throttle peer to peer connections.
So, essentially, it's Verizon holding YouTube hostage for Google so Google pays up some cash. |
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guppy_fish Premium Member join:2003-12-09 Palm Harbor, FL
1 recommendation |
^^^ lol Not one sentence in your post is factual |
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Really? While it's not directly "Comcast vs. Verizon" in this case (I used companies that people would recognize), let's change it to real organizations: Cogent vs. Hurricane Electric Here's a good article from Ars about it as well: » arstechnica.com/features ··· transit/Let's not forget that on the more content-oriented end; Netflix on Comcast ISP service counts against a data cap while Comcast's own streaming service over the same TCP/IP connectivity does NOT count against your cap. This is a bit more subtle behavior than what Verizon is doing with YouTube. Verizon's just being a pain in the ass about it to Google because they want them to pony up money. Looks like a couple of years ago Google paid Verizon for 'faster access': » www.dailytech.com/FCC+En ··· 9278.htmHere's some more information on the Verizon vs. Google fiasco over the years: » www.dailytech.com/Report ··· 9273.htmIt doesn't take but a quick Google Search. |
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to guppy_fish
This is a real problem that needs to be fixed. Report the problem to the FCC. We can bitch and moan all day long here but it doesn't mean a thing. Complain to the FCC. They do a great job of resolving issues. |
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guppy_fish Premium Member join:2003-12-09 Palm Harbor, FL
1 recommendation |
to magamiako
None of that happened ... if you spend more time than a Quick search.
NetFix and Google ( primarily YouTube ) are almost 50% of peak traffic now ( more than doubled since 2010 ) and they don't transit other peoples traffic, they only push bits.
Verizon doesn't pay anyone for traffic, as there a tier one network, meaning they ARE the internet, or a large part of it in the US. Verizon has no data caps, they will happily deliver bits day and night.
Google has to pay for the traffic they push, about 10% of the peak bandwidth, just like any other commercial enterprise, the problem for Google, unlike Netflix, which all Netflix customers are paying customers, Google floods out video for "free" to its viewers, and takes in money from advertising, to the tune of almost 3 billion.
Free does pay the bills for footing 10% of the US peak bandwidth
So the fix is YouTube becomes subscription based or Google pays for pushing its Videos, Google then buys peering to match the traffic, just like Nextflix does which by the way isn't having any issues.
Google by the way can purchase peering from many sources, not one has to be Verizon, and they do, like using X/O communications, they need more, its there business and there decision on what to do.
At some point, a company gets so large in their needs, the most cost effective approach is to become a tier one provider, which means a nation wide network which they can plunk down 10's of billions to build and then can push all the traffic ( and carry it ) just like all the other tier one carriers for no peering costs. |
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guppy_fish |
to michael3314
said by michael3314:This is a real problem that needs to be fixed. Report the problem to the FCC. We can bitch and moan all day long here but it doesn't mean a thing. Complain to the FCC. They do a great job of resolving issues. Feel free to "contact" the FCC, please post back on how that went Just curious, what would you like the FCC to do?, tell all teir one carrier to transit data for free? And whom do you expect the tier one networks, that cost 100's of billions to build will get revenue to support and upgrade the networks with? |
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I expect the FCC to force Verizon to provide its users with the same service that other internet providers do. No one complains about Comcast or any other major carrier. Its just Verizon. |
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guppy_fish Premium Member join:2003-12-09 Palm Harbor, FL |
said by michael3314:I expect the FCC to force Verizon to provide its users with the same service that other internet providers do. No one complains about Comcast or any other major carrier. Its just Verizon. Brighhouse: » [CFL] Awful video streaming performanceATT: » forums.att.com/t5/Featur ··· /3432661» Youtube sucks for meComcast » productforums.google.com ··· BM4XozcJ» webapps.stackexchange.co ··· ast-whatCharter » Youtube buffering/freezing problems? |
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Its a nice try but every link you provided was a single instance. This problem with Verizon is widespread and universal. |
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1 recommendation |
it honestly doesn't take more than 10 seconds of googling to see that it is a universal problem with all providers.
About 226,000 results (0.30 seconds) Search Results [Speed] Why is Comcast throttling YouTube? - Comcast HSI ... www.dslreports.com ... US Cable Support Comcast HSI 19 posts - 14 authors - Apr 24, 2010 Forum discussion: I can confirm my connection to YouTube is being drastically throttled, originally noticed it around 300kbps a few days ago, ... [Speed] Comcast throttling streaming? - 20 posts - Jan 19, 2012 [Speed] Proof that Comcast throttles - 19 posts - Mar 10, 2011 Comcast does not "throttle" YouTube or Hulu - 4 posts - Jan 7, 2009 Problems watching Youtube clips - I hate comcast ... - 18 posts - Jan 6, 2009 More results from dslreports.com » Comcast throttling youtube [PROOF] - Comcast Help and Support Forums forums.comcast.com/.../Comcast-throttling-youtube.../119049... 14 posts - Nov 30, 2012 Comcast it throttling my youtube connection. Get this fixed or I cancel next week. DiffProbe release. January 2012. Build 1008. Shaper Detection. Why Are You Blatantly Throttling Netflix? (Video I... - Jan 5, 2013 Are there any websites Comcast does NOT throttle? - Dec 2, 2012 Throttling down Netflix? - Nov 29, 2012 Comcast Throttling Youtube - Jun 29, 2008 More results from forums.comcast.com » Is Comcast Throttling YouTube? - Comcast HSI | DSLReports Forums www.broadbandreports.com ... US Cable Support Comcast HSIShare 17 posts - 11 authors - Sep 8, 2012 Forum discussion: I've noticed lately that YouTube videos load super slow, only playing a few seconds before buffering. Most recently, all ... |
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guppy_fish Premium Member join:2003-12-09 Palm Harbor, FL |
to michael3314
said by michael3314:Its a nice try but every link you provided was a single instance. This problem with Verizon is widespread and universal. There, I fixed it for you ... half the threads quotes were 10-20 page threads about the issue. Feel free to ignore the facts I'm sure if I spent an hour, I could find another page full of links, which you would spend 20 seconds and say its isn't so without any facts, enough fun for today |
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For what it's worth, I've had issues with Comcast and streaming Youtube for a while now, often not being able to pull in 1080P videos in any reasonable time. HOWEVER Verizon FIOS' performance is completely unacceptable. My good buddy has Verizon, and I have Comcast. The dramatic difference in performance of YouTube is like night and day between the two at the moment, and that's saying something, considering Comcast's isn't all that great, either. It's extortion, really. That's all it is. In fact, I found this thread after looking at this reddit post: » www.reddit.com/r/baltimo ··· on_fios/And the comments I've been having with my buddy over the weekend with his FIOS YouTube performance. |
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said by magamiako:Verizon FIOS' performance is completely unacceptable. My good buddy has Verizon, and I have Comcast. The dramatic difference in performance of YouTube is like night and day between the two at the moment, and that's saying something, considering Comcast's isn't all that great, either. Why don't you try to block the inbound IPs hosted by XO Communication and see if Verizon is still "throttling" your bandwidth to watch Youtube videos? I'm pretty sure Google forces many users, regardless of the ISP, to redirect them to specific XO IPs so the Google servers can handle large amount of traffic. They rather cache their streams to prevent server crashes, spending less money to upgrade servers. |
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to hubrisnxs
Do you think we can at least keep it to this year? All of your posts are two or three years ago. The only current one is about Netfix which is not in this conversation. Lets deal with the current problem. |
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bohratomMy Jersey Giants finally winning again.. join:2011-07-07 Red Bank NJ 2 edits |
to CptFudge
said by CptFudge:Block IP from 206.111.0.0 to 206.111.255.255 within your Inbound Rules of your Windows Firewall. Those IP's are not listed in wireshark (or using netstat) when viewing youtube videos yet I still like others have the buffering issue. I guess Ill start generating a list of the source youtube IPs and throw them into my routers firewall list. |
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navyson join:2011-07-15 Upper Marlboro, MD |
to AlanM
Guys,
It is not a universal problem. I can stream 1080p videos regularly at work with no problems. No buffering. At home, a 360p video on my 50/20 FIOS connection struggles most times.
What makes me more disappointed is that I just recently upgraded from 25/25 to 50/25 and that made absolutely no difference.
I am thinking of downgrading right now save my $10 a month |
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guppy_fish Premium Member join:2003-12-09 Palm Harbor, FL |
to AlanM
Well since people keep saying its FIOS, I'll keep it repeating with the facts. Nothing in Verizon control is causing the delays and buffering. This is 100% with in Google's control.
When you press "play" in the YouTube player, Google decides from where that stream will be sent to your device, its not the IP when you ping YouTube, it can only be check when your playing the video ( netstat or other packet sniffer ). As the recent posting shows, on the Time-Warner network, its defaulted to an overloaded X/O commutations caching server, which Google decides on what to use.
You can pound your feet all you want, these are the facts. Google is throttling, Not Verizon as there is nothing Verizon alone can change to make it work any different. |
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guppy_fish |
to michael3314
said by michael3314:Do you think we can at least keep it to this year? All of your posts are two or three years ago. The only current one is about Netfix which is not in this conversation. Lets deal with the current problem. I used a one month time frame on all my links ... |
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to guppy_fish
Why do the folks who are absolutely convinced this is a Verizon issue absolutely refuse to contact Verizon about it? Getting all fist-shaky and ragey about it on a message board doesn't seem like the best problem solving technique in that situation.
Or the media? Comcast throttled Bittorent - largely used to transfer pirated content - and the media went apeshit. You don't think the media (Comcast's NBC in particular) would be interested if Verizon were throttling the legal and popular YouTube?
As many have said, this is not a Verizon directed issue, and the resolution to it cannot be Verizon directed. |
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to bohratom
said by bohratom:Those IP's are not listed in wireshark (or just using netstat) when viewing youtube videos yet I still like others have the buffering issue. I guess Ill start generating a list of the source youtube IPs and throw them into my routers firewall list. IP's won't be listed if you simply ping out Youtube. The player has its own logic to redirect your bandwidth through caching servers such as the IPs listed. These servers purposely throttle your bandwidth to allow more connections, hence Youtube will suffer terrible speeds upon viewing a video. Blocking the listed IPs I suggested will avoid the Youtube player's logic and reverts back to the Google's datacenters. I would love to hear someone's response in attempting to try out this block and see if there's significant improvement. |
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