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me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO

me1212 to comp

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to comp

Re: ps4 specs

"According to gaming site Kotaku,"

Right in your post bro, yahoo may be incompetent :P

But ether way its disappointing if that is true, netbook parts in a gaming console, oh how the mighty have fallen.
comp
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join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA
·Armstrong

comp

Premium Member

said by me1212:

"According to gaming site Kotaku,"

Right in your post bro, yahoo may be incompetent :P

But ether way its disappointing if that is true, netbook parts in a gaming console, oh how the mighty have fallen.

That or we are completely underestimating how these chips will perform in a console and should not be comparing it to a PC
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO
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me1212

Member

I was more getting at the fact that in the past when consoles have launched they launched with high end parts, not low end parts. Still an x86 processor isn't magically going to gain 300% performance just because its in a console, even with the console using less resources than windows pcs.

sk1939
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sk1939 to comp

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to comp
said by comp:

said by me1212:

"According to gaming site Kotaku,"

Right in your post bro, yahoo may be incompetent :P

But ether way its disappointing if that is true, netbook parts in a gaming console, oh how the mighty have fallen.

That or we are completely underestimating how these chips will perform in a console and should not be comparing it to a PC

A low end part is a low end part regardless of what it's in. If the new Xbox has a similarly low end CPU then I'll rip in to that as well. Consoles should have next-gen tech on release, not previous gen tech.
comp
Premium Member
join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA

comp

Premium Member

Have we seen actual benchmarks from the same APU the PS4/Xbox will use?

Not similar CPU's but the actual low end part?

sk1939
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join:2010-10-23
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sk1939

Premium Member

said by comp:

Have we seen actual benchmarks from the same APU the PS4/Xbox will use?

Not similar CPU's but the actual low end part?

Not yet, but the trend is not favorable.
comp
Premium Member
join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA

comp

Premium Member

a good read
»www.engadget.com/2013/02 ··· ocessor/

sk1939
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sk1939

Premium Member

Does not look like a winner to me:

"To get a similar level of graphical power to the PS4, you'd need to spend at least $200 on a Radeon HD 7850 graphics card and splash out extra on a processor."

"Sony has only hinted that it "hopes" to bring it in under $599."

For $600 I could get a GTX680, which would blow it out of the water graphically. The 8GB of shared memory is a nice idea in concept, memory still isn't the bottleneck for most systems, no where near to it really.

"if the PS4 does put its memory to wildly good use, it'll probably serve to compensate for the low-power nature of its processor rather than to push the boundaries of gaming graphics."

Most importantly:

"AMD has staked its future on a certain philosophy that has sometimes left it looking isolated. Unlike Intel, which throws its billions into putting ever-greater numbers of transistors into its cores, AMD reckons that there are smarter ways to use and arrange these transistors.

Having many weak cores instead of a few strong ones is a classic example. It's a pattern found in AMD's FX range of PC chips and now in the PS4's spec sheet, but game developers just aren't used to it. They're accustomed to good single-threaded performance, so they'll have to adapt if they want to the push the PS4 to its limits. They'll also have to look into tricks like GPU compute, which can allow a strong GPU to help a weak CPU on certain non-graphical tasks."
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO

me1212

Member

it has to have the 8GB of shared memory, its an apu the cpu and gpu use the same memory. Sadly while the gddr5 will help the gpu it will only make the cpu even worse since gddr is not good for system ram.

Metatron2008
You're it
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join:2008-09-02
united state

Metatron2008

Premium Member

Wow what a dumb article. Praising AMD for having weak cores that are less powerful but use more energy? Praising them because they have MOAR CORES??! Does engadget also praise the bulldozer? WTF kind of journalism is this?
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO
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me1212

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Do they realize cores isn't everything? I mean it takes amd's full 8 cores to compete with 4 hyper-threaded intel cores. Keeping in mind that hyper threading is only like 65% or so effective as 2 cores having 8 full cores being able to compete with that really isn't a thing to be parsing.

DataRiker
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join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

DataRiker

Premium Member

said by me1212:

I mean it takes amd's full 8 cores to compete with 4 hyper-threaded intel cores.

So what?

There is little incentive for the end user to care. Would it make you feel better if Sony was using 4 more powerful cores instead of 8? Given this is a game console, single threaded performance arguments really don't hold water.

I have read theoretical arguments on overhead, but modern compilers make this so marginal it becomes irrelevant when talking 4 vs 8.

Developers will use what they are given. Namely 8 threads.
me1212
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me1212

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What single threaded performance has to do with how amd's 8 cores compete with intels 4 cores and 8 threads in multi-threaded applications you'll have to inform me of. As I was referring to how amd's 8 cores preform against intels 4 hyper threaded cores in applications that use 8 threads.

"Developers will use what they are given. Namely 8 threads."
This is not exactly 100% accurate, many many many do not use everything that is available to them. Due to ether being cheap or, well yeah mostly that.

Metatron2008
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Metatron2008 to DataRiker

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to DataRiker
How about it's hard to program for 4 cores much less 8? Programmers will need to program harder for the console, which will mean that a console that is more programmer friendly will get the best ports. Did you not learn anything from consoles like the Sega Saturn?

So programmers must learn to program for 8 cores to get the performance of 4 because Sony is cutting cost here, and you are oblivious to the problem here?
me1212
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me1212

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Not to mention not everything even benefits(a lot) from multi-threading. Diminishing returns and all that. Its not as easy and just writing code like

method(int d, string s, ect){

stuff to do;
}

muli-threaded method(blah){
make stuff multi-threaded {
stuff;
}

}

Especially in like c/c++ that is more difficult than say java. Java is easier but yeah it sucks for writing games in. It takes time, and learning, and diligence, and most importantly money.

DataRiker
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join:2002-05-19
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1 edit

DataRiker to Metatron2008

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to Metatron2008
said by Metatron2008:

So programmers must learn to program for 8 cores to get the performance of 4 because Sony is cutting cost here, and you are oblivious to the problem here?

You don't have to "learn" anything new going from 4 to 8 threads.

Furthermore there is already peer reviewed code for 80% of what you will do, with obvious tweaks and adjustments.

Most obvious would be functions using the pthreads.h counterpart in C++

Metatron2008
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Metatron2008

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It's harder to work with more cores, so yes you do.

DataRiker
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00000

4 edits

DataRiker

Premium Member

"harder" is highly subjective

And if you are fluent with C++ 11's native threading library, much of the repetitive work seems to be gone vs using pthreads.h C library.

sk1939
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sk1939 to DataRiker

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to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:

said by Metatron2008:

So programmers must learn to program for 8 cores to get the performance of 4 because Sony is cutting cost here, and you are oblivious to the problem here?

You don't have to "learn" anything new going from 4 to 8 threads.

Furthermore there is already peer reviewed code for 80% of what you will do, with obvious tweaks and adjustments.

Most obvious would be functions using the pthreads.h counterpart in C++

That's assuming it's written in C++ and not Python or some other language. Programmers still haven't distributed the tasks evenly between cores, and that's ignoring the issues that would come up with backwards compatibility.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

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88615298 (banned) to me1212

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to me1212
Her's an idea. Don't buy either the PS4 or the new XBOX if you think the CPU is weak. Problem solved. I think the only one really complaining are those that game on a PC anyways and just need any excuse to rip a console. Sony and MS are trying to keep the cost and power consumption low. So on PC can you get a more power PSU and better graphics card? Sure. You'll also need a huge ass power supply too. Build your gaming PC with your high end CPU and graphic cards with a sub 200 watt power supply and build it for under $400 and see how that works out.