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« Guns pointed at people??
This is a sub-selection from It's their right.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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reply to tshirt

Re: It's their right.

said by tshirt:

(In fact, both relaxation and a small amount of alcohol per day are good for most adults health)

And there is nothing like a few hours of plinking, or target shooting, with the aroma of gunsmoke in the background, to relax a guy, or gal!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


tshirt
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you can practice changing magazines too.



NormanS
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said by tshirt:

you can practice changing magazines too.

I mostly use clips; both the Springfield variety, and the Garand type.

M1903A3 Springfield clip.

M1 Garand clip.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


tshirt
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And each has less than 10 rounds, which should be plenty to handle any problem you are likely to encounter in this country, with out allowing the" just kept pulling the trigger" bloodbaths that seem so common now.



NormanS
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said by tshirt:

And each has less than 10 rounds, which should be plenty to handle any problem you are likely to encounter in this country, with out allowing the" just kept pulling the trigger" bloodbaths that seem so common now.

And I can shoot with those Springfield clips at the rate of 10 - 11 rounds per minute until I am out of clips.

Both at Cleveland Elementary School, in Stocton, CA (Jan., 1989) and Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, CT (Jan., 2013), the shooters reloaded multiple times.

Oh! Hark! Look at the commonalities! Maybe we should ban January! But wait! Columbine didn't happen in January of any year; i happened in Jefferson County, CO!! So ban state names beginning with the letter, "C"!!!

Seriously, what the Australian and English experiences show us is that any U.S. Pol who promises not to take my firearms either isn't serious about replicating those experiences, or lying through their teeth. My money is on the latter.

And Comcast/NBC/Hollywood are simply being self-righteous hypocrites in this affair.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


tshirt
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2 edits

said by NormanS:

.. the rate of 10 - 11 rounds per minute...

10-12 per minute isn't 1 plus rounds per second with a 30-50 round banana clip and a reload (new 30-50 round clip) in 2 seconds.
This isn't precision shooting, giving the prey/victims a chance, it's pure spray and pray killing.
If these people with these gun only killed themselves, it wouldn't be the problem of the currently competitive "taking as many as I can with me" or trying for suicide by cop.
The one factor that ends most of the shooting sprees is he kills himself OR the guns heat up and jam and that pause allows someone to take the gunman down usually a physical tackle not shooting him with a personal weapon, so, so much for the protection theory.

No you can't go by the date or the location (though the CDC has a interesting interactive map showing were murder by gun happens, stay out of NOLA a few very unfriendly people ruin the whole bunch) but the one commanality of all those and more is semi-automatic assault style weapon and assault style fantasies driving that final push for fame, so removing the access to those weapons is one of logical methods to reduce the killing sprees.
Unless you are suggesting it is their right.


NormanS
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said by tshirt:

said by NormanS:

.. the rate of 10 - 11 rounds per minute...

10-12 per minute isn't 1 plus rounds per second with a 30-50 round banana clip and a reload ...

It is sufficient for lethal work.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

No semi-automatic "assault" weapon there.

No you can't go by the date or the location (though the CDC has a interesting interactive map showing were murder by gun happens, stay out of NOLA a few very unfriendly people ruin the whole bunch) but the one commanality of all those and more is semi-automatic assault style weapon and assault style fantasies driving that final push for fame, so removing the access to those weapons is one of logical methods to reduce the killing sprees.

Removing that weapon type won't stop mass shootings, it will only stop mass shootings with that weapon type.

You might say that Japan got it right when Hideyoshi Toyotomi banned firearms from Japan at the beginning of the 17th Century. No other country has such a low firearms death rate; but no other country has such a restrictive ban on firearms.

Are you prepared to ban the manufacture and sale of firearms in the United States? Are you prepared to confiscate the 300 million firearms currently extant in the United States? If not, than you don't have your heart in making this a "safe" society.

Unless you are suggesting it is their right.

Logical fallacy: Argument reductio absurdum.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


tshirt
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you're comparing a trained marksman, (who actually recognized his own mental illness even as he proceeded to kill) to a series of very deranged "kids" with excessively capable semi-automatic weapons
said by NormanS:

No semi-automatic "assault" weapon there....
... Removing that weapon type won't stop mass shootings, it will only stop mass shootings with that weapon type.

A lot of people in Colorado and Connecticut and Arizona and Wisconsin, etc. would be happy to start with that.
Nobody expects to disarm any existing owner (barring threats, irrational behavior, or criminal activity), and most weapons would still be available with the hope of buybacks and voluntary turn-ins removing/reducing big clips and certain weapon and ammo types overtime (If you don't think your kids are responsible, you shouldn't will your weapons to them, or ebay them to persons unknown)

The idea that we shouldn't start the process with some particularly dangerous weapons, because some would still exist is silly Should we also sell fissionable material? just in case you feel really threatened , by the new neighbor or gang down the street


tim_k
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1 edit
reply to tshirt

said by tshirt:

so removing the access to those weapons is one of logical methods to reduce the killing sprees.
Unless you are suggesting it is their right.

So instead they'll use shotguns which can wipe out an entire classroom in 5 secs.
quote:
loads of 12 gauge, 00 buck are commonly available in 8 to 18 pellets in lengths from 2.75" to 3.5".
00 buck is .33 caliber vs .22 caliber for the AR15. A shotgun typically holds five rounds which puts 40-90 projectiles down range in less than half the time needed to empty a 30 round mag. Using smaller sized buckshot will of course put even more projectiles down range. A shotgun is far more deadly in the situations these cowardly mass murderers typically choose.
--
RIP my babies Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07, Beamer 7/24/08, & Bows 12/17/94-10/11/09

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to tshirt

said by tshirt:

And each has less than 10 rounds, which should be plenty to handle any problem you are likely to encounter in this country, with out allowing the" just kept pulling the trigger" bloodbaths that seem so common now.

You do realize 2 things:

1. The average (non sniper/military) person will not hit their adversary on the first try. Adrenalin, movement, etc will make you much less accurate than shooting at a paper target that does not move.

2. Few will end up dead on the first shot. You miss and get them in the arm all you did is piss them off. This is especially true of someone breaking into your house in a drug induced rage.

3. Why is 10 OK but 11-16 bad? You do realize it is trivial to switch magazines right? And there is this thing called a shotgun that shots hundreds of projectiles each time you pull the trigger.

Limiting magazine sizes is not the answer. Limiting types of weapons is not the answer either. Some horrific things happened while the assault weapons ban was in place (Columbine and others) so that doesn't work either.


tshirt
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reply to tim_k

but it limits the range.
look, other than a magical all guns disappear, no ban will end gun violence, and no one with half a brain believes anything more than an "Assault weapon" ban is possible politically or practically.
And there are quite a few of us who don't believe a total ban is even desirable. but there are responsible gun owner who take care to control their own guns, and there are idiots who seem to believe leaving a loaded gun out and accessible to others including young children is their RIGHT. and those few( or many) damage the argument of total wild west freedom as fine, those days are gone.
BTW statistically Semi auto pistols are the most deadly, assault rifles about half that and revolvers and shotguns are both in a single digit low/ double digit range. CDC actual deaths since 2001. so in a perfect world we'd start with SA pistols but that isn't going to happen.
as friends of dick Cheney will tell you, a couple pellets here and there (like birdshot to the face) (almost) never kill you



NormanS
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said by tshirt:

... so in a perfect world we'd start with SA pistols but that isn't going to happen.

I own an SA pistol which, by your CDC stats, is in the "single digit low/ double digit range". Excuse my laughter, but I have normally seen "SA" applied to a certain "action" type. As in, "SA auto", or, "SA" revolver. For most firearms aficionados, "SA" means, "Single Action"; as in you must manually cock the piece before you fire it. The semi-automatic "Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911A1" is an example of an "SA auto". So also its replacement, the, "Pistol, Semiautomatic, 9mm, M9".

BTW, I believe the CDC calculation of "deadly" isn't accurate. It seems to be based on frequency of use, not on actual weapon firepower. The CDC "deadly" is more appropriately applied to the shooter, not the weapon.

P.S. I forgot to include the classic, and grandaddy of all SA handguns: The Colt "Model P, Peacemaker, M1873". I have a latter-day knock-off; the Ruger "New Model Blackhawk".

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17
reply to tshirt

Our perception of danger is easily distorted by rare events.



tshirt
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reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

BTW, I believe the CDC calculation of "deadly" isn't accurate. It seems to be based on frequency of use, not on actual weapon firepower. The CDC "deadly" is more appropriately applied to the shooter, not the weapon.

Sorry I used SA to mean Semi-auto sorry I confused you.
I also applied "deadly" to the CDC chart to mean killed the most, because that's what counts...certainly the .44 magnum Dirty Harry revolver has more energy per bullet but they are either rarely used or not applied in a deadly way.
SEMI AUTOMATIC pistols and rifles are particularly deadly, largely due to the volume of bullets rather then size or energy of the bullet.
For the most part these are NOT great marksman, but do have high speed tools.