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xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ

Cox speed upgrade degraded my service

So...

Some weeks ago Cox upgraded Phoenix Az to 175Mb/s D 35Mb/s up. Awesome right ?

Well it sure seemed awesome..

Some things were clearly faster... But strangely some things were not, in fact suddenly for the first time in years I was seeing odd issues, hangs and weird latency issues..

I run multiping on a seperate computer and it pings the Cox gateway once a second and records latency. Its been doing this for 5 years. I have charts for 5 YEARS at 1 ping per second showing latency and packet loss..

Up until the upgrade I could not be happier. Latency was low, jitter was low and things were awesome. But then came the upgrade.

I will let the charts speak for themselves..

This is a typical month. This is this last december. This is 24 days of charting once per second..




Here you can see where they upgraded and what has happened since. Ignore the red packet loss, just me doing stuff on the network.

Ok im sorta ok with a 15% latency increase to my gateway. What caused this is a mystery. The variation shows loading, or maybe overloading.

Whats strange about this is... Maybe Cox has added a QoS appliance and is now able to filter various types of traffic and give priorities to various things. This type of appliance introduces latencies and other issues. While I can test and download files at 175Mb/s that does not mean that FTP / HTTP get the same priority as other protocols. Gaming for example. I know people who are reporting that since the upgrade they have seen latency increase and have experenced weird issues.

Being able to FILTER content and dictate priorities of various types of traffic is a concern...

But all that would not matter to me IF IT WAS NOT EFFECTING ME. BUT IT IS...




I would like someone from Cox to explain these changes in service quality and I would like to know officially if they introduced new QoS tools into the system..

My OTHER ISSUE IS.. This chart shows latency increasing. So far we have added 3ms of latency during peak times just to my gateway during this upgrade. This appears to be increasing every day. This is significant. For gaming in FPS games this is really significant.

I cant do these charts for specific services like http or steam games or VoIP. I would like to to see if there are now priorities for certain types of services.


xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ

Also I used to get a "A" score on Ping test with 1ms of jitter. Now I can only get B and never below 3ms of jitter..


bryant313

join:2011-05-24
Las Vegas, NV

i get the same b rating on the pingtest.net by default you will get a b rating if you do not run the packet loss test (assuming that your ping and jitter were low enough)


bryant313

join:2011-05-24
Las Vegas, NV
reply to xymox1

i have also seen some latency increases while gaming and running various tests as well


bryant313

join:2011-05-24
Las Vegas, NV
reply to xymox1

this is on premier on a hard wired connection i remember when i ping used to be 15ms on speedtest.net



and here is my pingtest.net result



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ

With speedtest you gotta try other servers to find the best one for you. For me in phoenix the local ones are all bad. The good one is in San Diego, I2B networks..

But notice your low jitter... 1ms. When i had 65Mb/s I also had 1ms of jitter.. That has all changed..

My speeds vary from 150 to 175 depending on time of day.



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

I really want a explanation on why my service was degraded. I wont really use the 170Mb/s but I will feel the increased latency in slower DNS lookups and the jitter will effect a number of things I use all the time.

So overall for me my service got downgraded even tho I can speedtest at 175Mb/s..

This was not what I expected. I gained speed, but lost other things. PLUS I may have had other degradations introduced that are hard to measure that are protocol and service specific. SOmething changed for people I know who game. Starting on the day of the upgrade switch they saw weird lags and increases in latency. Im told this is most obvious on FPS gaming where every packet and ms count. A slightly delayed/jittered packet is the difference in loosing the game.

There is no doubt something weird has occurred. The chart shows whatever the issue is is increasing too.

I want a explanation from Cox what has happened and what the future will bring. This change is ominous and not at all what i expected. I think Cox has introduced a filtering and QoS system and this is effecting things.



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

Yes I needed to enable a current Java to run pingtest correctly..

Weirdly I have now noticed that my ping test varies in Jitter.. The Jitter, Jitters.. 13ms of Jitter is terrible.. This alone might explain what gamers have been telling me. When your playing a FPS on a local server with 30ms latency, 13ms of jitter is fatal.. Mine used to be 1ms almost all the time, at times I saw 2ms.. Now its at least 3 and apperently up to 15ms of jitter to the same server.



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ

If there is a QoS policy in place, where can I read it ?



chrisf8657

join:2002-01-27
Glendale, AZ
reply to xymox1

I've noticed higher than usual jitter as well since the upgrade.
I just tested and got 13ms of Jitter...it's been varying between 2 and upwards of 15 for me now, used to only be 1-3.

This guy might be onto something.
--
~~Chris~~

Need a pro computer tech? See my profile for my website - I offer remote support services!


Centerton

join:2009-06-13
Bentonville, AR
reply to xymox1

I have been seeing the same things in Arkansas and no speed upgrades here



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to chrisf8657

quote:
This guy might be onto something.
I know something is wrong. So far i would say my experience on Cox has been downgraded.

Maybe they are still working things out ? Maybe this will get corrected ? That would be awesome. However i dont think thats the case. I think my experence has been degraded.

(side note ) Chrisf8657 >> Nice join date..11 years here.. quite impressive.

nickphx

join:2009-10-29
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit
reply to xymox1

You mentioned connection problems but showed no evidence of such. You just rant about a few ms increase in ping. oh noz!

Yet another user expecting business level service levels on a consumer internet connection.

If you want low latency, no QoS on the provider side and people to jump when you complain about 3ms, get a real connection from a business provider not a consumer offering from COX...

my connection with cox is fine..


Centerton

join:2009-06-13
Bentonville, AR
reply to xymox1




xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to nickphx

quote:
You just rant about a few ms increase in ping. oh noz!
15-20% increase and going up daily. Jitter up 3 TIMES and climbing..

This was a "upgrade" ?

I dont care about, and did not request, the speed increase. What i got was degraded service. Im supposed to just like that, just settle for that ? Just say its OK ?

A 50% increase in jitter and latency when playing games on a PHX based local server ? Thats OK ?

So your saying I should go spend $1500 / mo to get 100Mb/s as a buisness ? WHen I have been spending $99/mo ? just so i can get back to what i had a month ago ?

And be happy doing this ?

So your jitter is now 3 TIMES higher. Your latency drifts around all over the palce and is 15% longer. Your good with this ?

Hahaha... Your nutz..

Unless someone complains nothing will happen.


xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

Not to mention the whole spectre of Cox introducing possible content filtering and throttling based on protocol/service.

This is BAD..

Unless there are complaints this will simply get slipped into your connection and become the new norm.

At some point maybe they will decide to block what the music/movie industry serves them a court order to block. Maybe they might decide what content you can interact with ?

Cox may have taken the first step in serious content filtering / throttling and slipped it in along with a "upgrade" in speed.

Yes i might be completely wrong. But its still interesting. Im having trouble figuring out why a switch to a wider pipe has created swings in latency and what appears as loading/overloading. One explanation is they have introduced a content filtering/throttling system. Several large ISP's have showed interest in this.


m8trix

join:2003-12-24
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to xymox1

looking at the graphs you posted it looks like you started having issues on the 19th and it gradually got worse ,so based on that it looks as if you problem is unrelated to the speed upgrade but more that you are just having a connection issue that may require a tech visit



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

The day before my speed was 65Mb/s, the day after it was 175 and the latency issues began.. It was the day of the upgrade for my area. I will get you a higher resolution of that time frame..



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ

Starting at what appears to be almost exactly midnite of 1/31/13 or 2/1/13 the below occurred.

Times on the chart are UTC and atomic clock NTP synced

5 day width



48 hr width.. This shows some off the chart latency and a few episodes of 100% packet loss as they switched over. It also shows some low level sustained packet loss briefly..



This being exactly on 2/1/13 and my speed increase on the next day shows that something with the upgrade caused my issues..

Also, just FYI, my DPC3010 which is running on on a 6X3 channel config with current firmware shows the same tx/tx levels it did before the upgrade.

While I would LOVE for it to be a local connection issue, this seems very highly unlikely.. But sure I would be happy to have a Cox Tech check my levels and BER and look for any issues. Considering i had a perfect connection up till 2/1/13 exactly, it seems highly unlikely its just me..

I will have someone else run multiping to confirm this.. It will take a few days before i can post that as it will need to accumulate data..

I think I am also going to switch to a higher resolution ping rate to see jitter better.. Im going to set multiping to 0.3s ping interval rather then 1 s


m33crob

join:2013-02-06
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit
reply to xymox1

I too have started to see all sorts of weird issues. I'd like to think that it is not my equipment as I just purchased an SB6141 and an RT-N66U 3 weeks ago.

1) Some days (definitely this last weekend) there is massive packet loss in the morning. This packet loss would average about 35% loss and on every day it would auto-magically fix itself by 10:30 a.m.. This issue seems to be fairly regular and can almost be predicted.

2) Some times in the evening I will start to notice lag/latency. When I run ping tests, pinging 8.8.8.8 will fail at 100% but a ping to google.com will pass without any loss. At this same time, I can use nslookup and query 8.8.8.8 directly and receive results. This does not make sense, this should not act this way. This issue is seemingly random and I have found no commonality with it.

3) When the packet loss occurs: I run a constant ping to my router which shows 0% packet loss, I run a constant ping to my modem (192.168.100.1) which shows 0% packet loss, and I run a constant ping to the first cox device out of my modem (from tracert) and this device shows the packet loss.



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit
reply to xymox1

Could be connection issues with packet loss that high. ALso could be you switched from a DOCSIS 2 modem doing 1X1 to a DOCSIS 3 doing 6X3 and when you did this you exposed issues at other frequencies on your line that has caused your issues, but,, go get multiping »www.nessoft.com/multiping/ its free. Figure out your gateway.. Start>Type CMD in the box at the bottom and press enter>Type tracert google.com into the black box that comes up..

Let that go

Usually the 3rd one down is your gateway ( if you have a router )

OR ( better ) you can go to your router and see what the gateway is on your WAN side.

Once you have this IP address...

Enter this on multiping "Enter new target"

TYPE in 1 sec into the ping interval box at the top. Let it run.

Remember that if you saturate your connection by say doing speedtest.net or downloading its sure to cause multiping to show a higher latency - this is not a issue, its normal. Packetloss is NOT normal..

Just for reference... The changeover to the new speeds and my latency issues occurred very precisely at midnight on 1/31/13 into 2/1/13..

Remember Phoenix is -7 from UTC so 7pm below is really midnight.

It looks like they did something 30 mins prior to midnite that caused a few small glitches in latency, then a complete loss of connection twice right around midnite, then a hour later something happened and latency and packet loss went crazy and then settled in.



[img]



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

Which bring us to here...

This shows the issues. It also shows the general trend im concerned about in rising latency. It shows a clear degradation in the quality of my service.

The latency swings, at peak internet usage times, show a loading/overloading of something. I would love to hear from Cox that they are aware of the issue and are working to correct it. That would be awesome.

This is 60 days in width.


m33crob

join:2013-02-06
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

I guess I'll just schedule a tech to come out something (eventually, not in a real hurry.) I was using a DPC3000 before I swapped to the SB6141 because the old modem only had a 100mbps wan interface and 4x4 bonding. After the modem swap I am bonding on more channels, but they are all in range. Off-hand I think my power levels on all 8 downstream channels is between -5 & -7 and my SNR is around 36 and TX at 42.



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

Hmmm... Thats looks pretty perfect...

Give multiping a while. Let it run for a few days..

If you have swings like i show above, then yea, maybe you are also seeing the issue im describing..



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

This appears to effect everyone on all tiers of service.

So even if you dont have higher speeds your lantency and jitter most likely went up, EVEN THO you did not get any added benifit of higher speeds as lower tiers of service are capped,

That would suck even worse. At least I got higher speeds, so some benefit from the change.



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

Whoa....

I had not looked at short windows in a while..

Multiping averages out when you look at larger time frames.

Looking at short time frames now makes it clear why my gaming friends are upset. 50ms latency to the gateway. LOTS of jitter. Even some real live packet loss.

This is a whole lot worse then I thought..

30 min window width.



I have now started 0.2s ping intervals to examine this issue more closely.. I want to look at short term latency and jitter..



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

OMFG...

Wow the problem is WAY WORSE then i thought..

Here is a before upgrade and after upgrade 30 min multiping with 1 sec ping interval..

The difference is 3 to 5 TIMES worse.

Randomly, second by second, latency is varying from 8ms to 50+ms.. This is a LOT to be happening just to the gateway. For a FPS gamer this is bad news. Clearly for gaming the cox "upgrade" was 100% a downgrade.


lilstone87

join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
kudos:3

So what exactly are you pinging? ur modem?



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
reply to xymox1

No the Cox gateway...

See previous posts...

Use tracert to determine what your gateway is. Or look at your modem WAN status and it will have the gateway..

Its the first step outward past your router and modem.

Well there is also the CMTS. I have pinged the CMTS in the past, but the Gateway makes more sense..



xymox1
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit
reply to xymox1

I suppose I should go over my setup...

DPC3010 modem
6X3 bonding
firmware dpc3010-v302r12901-110516a-COX.bin
Levels
RX
Channel 1: 4.3 dBmV 39.9 dB
Channel 2: 4.0 dBmV 39.6 dB
Channel 3: 3.8 dBmV 39.0 dB
Channel 4: 4.2 dBmV 38.8 dB
Channel 5: 4.5 dBmV 38.6 dB
Channel 6: 3.8 dBmV 37.5 dB
TX
Channel 1: 38.5 dBmV
Channel 2: 38.5 dBmV
Channel 3: 38.5 dBmV

I have a direct, new, coax run to the cox pedestal. I dont have cable TV and no splitters. The wire goes from the cox box directly into my modem.

I am currently using a Ubiquity Edge Router Lite
»www.ubnt.com/edgemax#EdgeMAXhardware
but have also used a high performance PC running dual NIC's and Vyatta as a high performance router. »www.vyatta.com/product/vyatta-ne···os/specs

I am wired with shielded cat 6E

The computer doing the pinging has a high performance NIC and is running a ASUS Rampage 3 extreme MB, Intel i7 X990 @ 3.5Ghz, high performance ram and other things like a RAID 0 set of SSD's.

The computer running multiping does nothing else. It does not even have a monitor. I use remote desktop to access it.

When i first noticed this issue, I changed modem, changed routers and used a different computer and the same latency swings were still present.