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funny0
join:2010-12-22

funny0 to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs

Re: What does the CBB ruling mean to you and me?

said by MaynardKrebs:

I forecast competitive prices on dial-up connections.

The rest, since it's non-essential, will be affected by the way the CRTC slices'n'dices the incumbent costs, and that may mean lower capacity costs but perhaps higher other costs as 'offsets' to the incumbents for their 'troubles'.

i heard a rush on trees to make paper air planes was coming ...invest NOW....
funny0

funny0 to rocca

Member

to rocca
said by rocca:

said by dillyhammer:

Start Communications just got broadsided. Big time.

And retroactively just to give that extra kick.

make everyone real mad at cogeco
and take all your business ot dsl.....
and put all cable at capped crazy prices.
and make sure they know its cogeco ya know the portugal people that cant run a ISP in there own land.( sold it )
funny0

funny0 to silvercat

Member

to silvercat
said by silvercat:

said by Perma:

I was so close to switching to start, but with no unlimited plan's in site I'm staying with TSI. Sorry for the bad luck, rocca. I'm in London, I can buy you a beer for the inconvenience?

You really think Teksavvy is going to offer 30/2 unlimited in Cogeco areas after this decision ?

Edit: Sorry, thought you were talking about Cogeco areas. I'm assuming you're currently going through Rogers infrastructure.

what teksavvy should do as a sign of SCREW the big guy is offer a 1 megabit unlimited in cogeco land ....and say sorry but this isp just cant get its act together and offer a decent price.
Expand your moderator at work

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to hm

Anon

to hm

Re: What does the CBB ruling mean to you and me?

said by hm :

For Videotron Quebec cable they will still offer unlimited, but throttle your speeds.

Per a guy in the Acanac forum, he states:

"4Mbps/1Mbps et 15Mbps/2Mbps" are the "peak time throttle speeds" that you will get (depends on speed tier you buy, obviously). So a 30-meg tier will get you 15-meg for hours at a time during peak time.

So if you order the 30/2 package on a year contract, everyday at peak time (what hours exactly?) your speed will drop to 15/2.

He also states Acanac (Distributel?) made an agreement with Videotron to not push the faster 10-meg upload speed to their clients in April.

Should be noted that Acanac doesn't even reflect the faster 3-meg upstream which Videotron users have. So it seems they never got the last speed upgrade either. Which lends credence (credibility) to what this person is saying.

Source:
»Quebec cable - no speed upgrade

So the guy warns people to be aware of this factoid which can disappoint you.

hm.

Some interesting things are coming out with the new rates...

Maybe someone in authority at Acanac can confirm?

I see nothing wrong with it, as long as people are made fully aware and the know exactly what they are buying.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

4 edits

Canaca

Premium Member

We have no agreements with Videotron to reduce the speeds. In fact current clients have received the speed upgrades we just have yet to advertise them on our site. (We were waiting for this decision.)
We will have the updated speeds listed on our site within the next week. (DSL and Cable)

As for our rate limit the times are listed on our site.
Peak Hour Rate Limit - 7PM to 12AM.

Please beware that the rate limit is applied on as needed bases. For
example on a 30Mbps connection we may only rate limit the speeds to 15Mbps at 10PM for a 10 minute period. The rest of the time the rate limit can be as little as 1Mbps or as high 15Mbps.

We believe these types of rate limits will allow us to soon offer the higher speeds since we can safely reduce spikes. For example we can start offering 60Mbps while rate liming the max to around 20Mbps- 30Mbps during peak periods. Applying these methods we can maintain our averages.

Most important of all usage stays unlimited at all times of the day. I am confident that in the near future other ISP's will be implementing similar rate limiting strategies. Just remember who did it first
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

LastDon

Member

Rate limits in this day and age are just ridiculous . if you are paying for a 30Mbps connection that is what you are paying for

I'd rather have a GB limit in the high 200-300's than someone playing with my speeds.

It is 2013 not 1999 boys and girls!

If you can't offer your customers ( any ISP that is ) the advertised speed of "UP to" all day and everyday , you shouldn't be in the business of being an ISP.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

Canaca

Premium Member

I would strongly disagree with your statement above. Unlimited usage is far more important than peak speeds. With upcoming over the top IPTV service even more so.

What can't you do with a 30Mbps connection that you can do with a 60Mbps one?

Now as the exact same question in terms of usage. What can't you do with a 75GB cap that can do with a unlimited usage?

With the 60Mbps example one may only be rate limited for a small portion of the peak period. You can say it's up-to 60Mbps.

rednekcowboy
join:2012-03-21

rednekcowboy to LastDon

Member

to LastDon
said by LastDon:

Rate limits in this day and age are just ridiculous . if you are paying for a 30Mbps connection that is what you are paying for

I'd rather have a GB limit in the high 200-300's than someone playing with my speeds.

It is 2013 not 1999 boys and girls!

If you can't offer your customers ( any ISP that is ) the advertised speed of "UP to" all day and everyday , you shouldn't be in the business of being an ISP.

This is why I went with Ebox vs Distributel or Acanac. I know I have 500 GB/month and watch my usage vs having a fake "unlimited" service that will get throttled if I use too much....at least with Ebox, I know what I pay for and am getting exactly that.

I'm sorry Acanac, but your stance is archaic. Once agrees to allow you to throttle their connection, they open the door for you to be able to do that any time you wish. Right now you state peak only times, but if you are using too much bandwidth with the ISP and it is costing you too much, what's to stop you from doing it all the time? No thank you. IMHO throttling is just another way of deceiving someone into paying for something they are not really getting and should be illegal.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

4 edits

Canaca

Premium Member

This is a perfect example why independent ISP's are need. You as a end user had the opportunity to make a informed decision. In the end it's about providing as many choices as possible.

Your looking at the rate limit through the lense of the Bell DPI.

For example our 15Mbps unlimited FTTN is cheaper than most of our competitors 6Mbps service. Put it this way. Even if we rate limit during the entire peak period you would still get a better bang for your buck than ordering a 6Mbps connection from a competitor. The same can apply to our 30Mbps connections.

We are also not hiding the rate limit. It is fully disclosed to the client. No different than an ISP disclosing a 500GB usage limit.
geokilla
join:2010-10-04
North York, ON

geokilla to LastDon

Member

to LastDon
said by LastDon:

Rate limits in this day and age are just ridiculous . if you are paying for a 30Mbps connection that is what you are paying for

I'd rather have a GB limit in the high 200-300's than someone playing with my speeds.

It is 2013 not 1999 boys and girls!

If you can't offer your customers ( any ISP that is ) the advertised speed of "UP to" all day and everyday , you shouldn't be in the business of being an ISP.

I'll take that rate limit over a limited amount of usage. What are you downloading 24/7 that requires it to go at 30mbps instead of 15mbps? For me, only when the latest anime is out and I watch to watch it ASAP. And even then my download speed depends on the server and seeders I'm downloading from. So while on paper Acanac sucks because they throttle during peak hours, in reality there is no harm to the average user. At the very least there is no harm to me. As long as I can download quickly during peak hours and stream in 720P as well as upload my own stream in 720P, I'm good to go. Plus Acanac doesn't even throttle unless they need to if I'm understanding the last couple posts correctly.

rednekcowboy
join:2012-03-21

rednekcowboy to Canaca

Member

to Canaca
said by Canaca:

We are also not hiding the rate limit. It is fully disclosed to the client. No different than an ISP disclosing a 500GB usage limit.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this philosophy. While many, many people will side with you and commend you for being honest, I never will. I firmly believe throttling/rate limiting/traffic shaping of any kind is wrong and should not be allowed under any circumstance.

By partaking in this practice, you are not truly offering an "unlimited" 30 Mbps (or whatever speed tier we are talking about) but are using the terms as a catch/gimmick to reel people in. Some people are fine with this and enjoy the fact that they don't have to watch their usage. You are upfront with your practices, but this is not something to be commended for nor is it a badge to be waving proudly around. It is still a deceptive practice to offer a 30 Mbps "unlimited" package that will be throttled there by making it not really unlimited/not really a 30 Mbps package. Yes it does say in the fine print that it will be so and so speed between so and so hours, but how many people read the fine print? You're also famous for saying on these forums that this has never been implemented and down playing this fine print as insignificant and you need not pay attention to it.

And you are correct about this being the great thing about choice. I went with a company that I consider to be the most honest and truthful and forthcoming. I buy a service that will always be 30 up and 3 down and if I happen to go over my usage allotment, I know I will be charged for it. This is, again IMHO, the most honest way to be. They didn't say we'll give you 30 mbps and then attach a bunch of what if's and maybe's to it.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

Canaca

Premium Member

I want to make it clear that it's not hidden in the fine print. It stated right on the DSL and Cable pages.

»www.acanac.ca/DSL.html
»www.acanac.ca/cable.html

The time period and the max rate limit is clearly stated.
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

LastDon to geokilla

Member

to geokilla
said by geokilla:

said by LastDon:

Rate limits in this day and age are just ridiculous . if you are paying for a 30Mbps connection that is what you are paying for

I'll take that rate limit over a limited amount of usage. What are you downloading 24/7 that requires it to go at 30mbps instead of 15mbps? For me, only when the latest anime is out and I watch to watch it ASAP. And even then my download speed depends on the server and seeders I'm downloading from. So while on paper Acanac sucks because they throttle during peak hours, in reality there is no harm to the average user. At the very least there is no harm to me. As long as I can download quickly during peak hours and stream in 720P as well as upload my own stream in 720P, I'm good to go. Plus Acanac doesn't even throttle unless they need to if I'm understanding the last couple posts correctly.

A lot of individuals on forums complain when their cable speeds get cut in half during peak time... why ? because they usually feel the difference..

If you are paying for 30Mbps and all a sudden you get the speed in half you'll notice it..

Like their bronze package from 6Mbps to 3... when I had a 6Mbps connection and my connection all a sudden dropped to 3Mbps I felt it.. and what if you have more than one person at home using the connection? They will feel the impact.

Speed Matters no matter what way you look at it.. If more than one person is in your house using a pc .. it makes a difference.

In reality what is the purpose of it? equipment can't handle full load?

I like what some isps are doing offering no limits during 2am-12pm etc. I'd rather have that than my speed cut in half..

Also with equipment in place or whatever to reduce the speed, and throttle connection it just introduces more and more a inbetween when things go wrong.. bell didn't expect their throttling would make VOIP sound like crap etc etc or other issues that were presented but it happened.

You can do everything at any given speed, but each business can do as they please right? its like buy a car advertised with certain EPA gas figures and when people can't get those figures people start doing class auction law suits, complain, wage war.

rednekcowboy
join:2012-03-21

rednekcowboy to Canaca

Member

to Canaca
said by Canaca:

I want to make it clear that it's not hidden in the fine print. It stated right on the DSL and Cable pages.

»www.acanac.ca/DSL.html
»www.acanac.ca/cable.html

The time period and the max rate limit is clearly stated.

Really, out of my whole post, that is what you picked out?

It is in the fine print as it's not in the 64 High Font (or whatever size it is, biggest lettering on the page BTW) saying 28Mbps...that is all I meant by that.

In fact, even after clicking on your link I had to scroll through it twice before I found the line stating it.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

Canaca to LastDon

Premium Member

to LastDon
Clients complain because they are getting packet loss due to link saturation. You will not encounter this with our rate limit. Your you-tube videos will still load just as fast. In most cases the bottleneck will be the server on the other end.

Once again if our 15Mbps unlimited usage service more cost effective than a competitors 6Mbps unlimited usage the choice is any easy.

Even if we were to rate limit the entire peak period you would still get the full 8Mbps while on the competitors line you be lucky to get 5.2MBps due to PPPOE overhead. These are worst case scenarios.
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

LastDon

Member

Sure they will load just as fast, but what if two or three people at home are using that same connection? Things wont be loading as fast.

When i had 6Mbps and my other half and I would stream youtube videos at 1080P or one watching netflix while the other is doing youtube you notice it .

Now with the 15Mbps it doesn't even hiccup . no buffering . nothing.

Speed makes a difference when you have more than one person online at the same time.

rednekcowboy
join:2012-03-21

rednekcowboy

Member

said by LastDon:

Sure they will load just as fast, but what if two or three people at home are using that same connection? Things wont be loading as fast.

When i had 6Mbps and my other half and I would stream youtube videos at 1080P or one watching netflix while the other is doing youtube you notice it .

Now with the 15Mbps it doesn't even hiccup . no buffering . nothing.

Speed makes a difference when you have more than one person online at the same time.

Which is exactly why I need a 30 Mmbps connection with 4 people, all with laptops, all who love to stream videos and a htpc that is always on streaming shows and downloading, etc. If my connection were throttled down to half at a time of day that we use it the most, it would certainly be noticed by all.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

Canaca to LastDon

Premium Member

to LastDon

Then when we start offering 50Mbps and 60Mbps at
potentially the same or lower price as our competitors 30Mbps plans the choice will still be clear in your case.

Once again in my opinion unlimited usage is far more important the peak transfer.
Canaca

2 edits

Canaca to rednekcowboy

Premium Member

to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

said by LastDon:

Sure they will load just as fast, but what if two or three people at home are using that same connection? Things wont be loading as fast.

When i had 6Mbps and my other half and I would stream youtube videos at 1080P or one watching netflix while the other is doing youtube you notice it .

Now with the 15Mbps it doesn't even hiccup . no buffering . nothing.

Speed makes a difference when you have more than one person online at the same time.

Which is exactly why I need a 30 Mmbps connection with 4 people, all with laptops, all who love to stream videos and a htpc that is always on streaming shows and downloading, etc. If my connection were throttled down to half at a time of day that we use it the most, it would certainly be noticed by all.

Your the perfect example for the post above. Potentially our 60Mbps service we be just as cost effect as our competitors 30Mbps service. At worst you will get 30Mbps during peak periods and 60Mbps 19 hours out of the day. The choice to make is a clear based on the assumptions above.

rednekcowboy
join:2012-03-21

1 edit

rednekcowboy

Member

said by Canaca:

said by rednekcowboy:

said by LastDon:

Sure they will load just as fast, but what if two or three people at home are using that same connection? Things wont be loading as fast.

When i had 6Mbps and my other half and I would stream youtube videos at 1080P or one watching netflix while the other is doing youtube you notice it .

Now with the 15Mbps it doesn't even hiccup . no buffering . nothing.

Speed makes a difference when you have more than one person online at the same time.

Which is exactly why I need a 30 Mmbps connection with 4 people, all with laptops, all who love to stream videos and a htpc that is always on streaming shows and downloading, etc. If my connection were throttled down to half at a time of day that we use it the most, it would certainly be noticed by all.

Your the perfect example for the post above.

If you can give me a 60 meg unlimited connection in Videotron land and guarantee it will never drop below 30 Mbps, only during the hours currently listed on your website for less than what I'm currently paying for my 30 Meg 500 GB package at Ebox I will eat my words gladly and you may even have yourself a new customer (if I can bring my current modem with me, that is lol). However, I will say that I would want those terms clearly printed out with no "what if's or maybes" attached or "reserve the right to" clauses inserted anywhere.

When will this package be offered?
geokilla
join:2010-10-04
North York, ON

geokilla to LastDon

Member

to LastDon
said by LastDon:

said by geokilla:

said by LastDon:

Rate limits in this day and age are just ridiculous . if you are paying for a 30Mbps connection that is what you are paying for

I'll take that rate limit over a limited amount of usage. What are you downloading 24/7 that requires it to go at 30mbps instead of 15mbps? For me, only when the latest anime is out and I watch to watch it ASAP. And even then my download speed depends on the server and seeders I'm downloading from. So while on paper Acanac sucks because they throttle during peak hours, in reality there is no harm to the average user. At the very least there is no harm to me. As long as I can download quickly during peak hours and stream in 720P as well as upload my own stream in 720P, I'm good to go. Plus Acanac doesn't even throttle unless they need to if I'm understanding the last couple posts correctly.

A lot of individuals on forums complain when their cable speeds get cut in half during peak time... why ? because they usually feel the difference..

If you are paying for 30Mbps and all a sudden you get the speed in half you'll notice it..

Like their bronze package from 6Mbps to 3... when I had a 6Mbps connection and my connection all a sudden dropped to 3Mbps I felt it.. and what if you have more than one person at home using the connection? They will feel the impact.

Speed Matters no matter what way you look at it.. If more than one person is in your house using a pc .. it makes a difference.

In reality what is the purpose of it? equipment can't handle full load?

I like what some isps are doing offering no limits during 2am-12pm etc. I'd rather have that than my speed cut in half..

Also with equipment in place or whatever to reduce the speed, and throttle connection it just introduces more and more a inbetween when things go wrong.. bell didn't expect their throttling would make VOIP sound like crap etc etc or other issues that were presented but it happened.

You can do everything at any given speed, but each business can do as they please right? its like buy a car advertised with certain EPA gas figures and when people can't get those figures people start doing class auction law suits, complain, wage war.

Clearly you didn't hear about the congestion fiasco maybe a year ago with Teksavvy. You were lucky to get anything faster than 3mbps during peak hours for a good couple months, they were still charging everyone full price.

I don't know what you're doing on the internet and I honestly don't care. Acanac's model of business works for me and my family and that's that. Does that mean I'm going to switch? Probably not. I'll make a decision when all the IISPs release their pricing.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

Canaca to rednekcowboy

Premium Member

to rednekcowboy
We still don't have an ETA on the Cable side. (I am hoping within the next month or so.) We are also considering offering the 25Mbps VDSL speeds with the higher upload. We still need to go through the cost analysis.

With that said within the next week we will be releasing our new rates for FTTN (10Mbps and 15Mbps). We will also take the opportunity to make some changes to our current cable plans.

rednekcowboy
join:2012-03-21

rednekcowboy

Member

Well the Bell side is really not surprising at all as the tariff's were lowered. I'm just having a tough time believing what you say about the cable side as those costs rose in Videotron-land but admittedly I do not know anything about the business side of this, so I guess time will tell.

I will say that if you are truly able to offer that kind of pricing--twice the speed and unlimited vs capped for the same or less than Ebox's current pricing, then I would assume that Ebox will be able to match that as well and will likely adjust accordingly.

Here I thought this latest ruling was bad news for cable. I guess that just shows how little I know!!

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to LastDon

Anon

to LastDon
said by LastDon:

Rate limits in this day and age are just ridiculous . if you are paying for a 30Mbps connection that is what you are paying for

Like the guy said...
said by Canaca:

Unlimited usage is far more important than peak speeds. With upcoming over the top IPTV service even more so.

Nothing wrong with it as far as I see. You yourself state you babysit your usage. Many people don't care and don't want to.

IPTV makes the case as well.

But, with deployment of IPTV peak time will likely go up as well pushing that peak-time time frame to maybe more than 10-minutes or an hour.

In the end you have a choice. Take it or leave it. You have the choice to go elsewhere and pay ~15$/month more if it doesn't suit your needs.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

4 edits

Canaca to rednekcowboy

Premium Member

to rednekcowboy
The costs did rise however not enough to make any significant impact on our current plans. With that said we still need to go through a proper analysis. In the event that we do have to increase prices the goal is still to continue to offer unlimited usage.

In our case we may have to play with the peak rate limit instead. The problem is that we really won't know the average peak usage for these higher speeds until we have at least a few hundred clients on these plans. We may start out with a lower max rate limit just to be safe. (Like 20MBps)
Viper359
Premium Member
join:2006-09-17
Scarborough, ON

Viper359 to hm

Premium Member

to hm
I can see both sides point of view. I also think it totally depends on each households needs.

For example, in my case, we have Rogers 75/2. Would a loss of 15Mbps hurt us? No. Would it even be noticeable. 95% of the time, no. Would I sign up with that much of a loss? Yes. However, what if it was a loss of 30+Mbps, would that hurt? No. Would it be noticeable? Yes. Would I sign up with that much of a loss? No.

Due to the speeds we have in our house, we have more wiggle room when it comes to bandwidth requirements. With our plan, the speed is mainly for burst downloading. Any loss of available speed wouldn't affect the core services in our house that people use the net for. However, if I was on a lower speed plan, I could certainly see where people could start running into issues.

Which leads to the next problem. With my current speed tier, QOS is not required. Everything that can use bandwidth to any real speed is hardwired by Gig switches, or router. So giving priority of traffic has never been an issue here. Even on the wireless side, its only been a few phones and tablets. All the game consoles, and streaming devices like my popcorn hour, all being hardwired, have never pushed the limits of my internal network. They have pushed the limits of my HDD when 3 people were streaming off the same drive. I could quickly see an issue if I was on a lower speed tier that got kneecapped. All the sudden my VOIP service would have issues, because someone is gaming, and another is watching Netflix, and the BW is erratic. Then I would have to setup QOS.
LanAdmin
join:2010-11-07
Montreal, QC

LanAdmin to Canaca

Member

to Canaca
I have opened a ticket (JVS-53685) and the answer was very clear. It was not a question of updating the Web site.

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Acanac-Inc.

Please understand that while Videotron offers packages similar to ours, we do not carry the same packages. We currently use Videotron's infrastructure to provide service to our customers. However, there are certain agreements and arrangements made with the carrier that allow this to happen. Our current agreement with the carrier, Videotron, is the speeds you will see listed on our website. The information listed there is correct and is not a mistake. This is the service that Acanac-Inc, is able to offer to our subscribers. If in the future we are able to provide the speeds you have seen listed on Videotron's and other's websites, we will update the site accordingly. We do apologize for the confusion.

If you have further inquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Acanac Inc.
»www.acanac.ca
1-866-281-3538

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

4 edits

Canaca

Premium Member

Like I stated in previous post current clients already receive the increased speeds. Any client ordering today will also be getting the increased speeds by default. Once again clients are getting more than what is advertised on the web site today. I would assume this is a good thing

We have no special agreement to lower the speeds with Videotron. What you have is a tech support agent who is a bit out of date with the current tariffs however does not mean we made some special agreements.

When we are ready to do so the web site will be updated.

shrug
@videotron.ca

shrug to LanAdmin

Anon

to LanAdmin
said by LanAdmin:

1.we do not carry the same packages.
2. However, there are certain agreements and arrangements made with the carrier that allow this to happen. Our current agreement with the carrier, Videotron, is the speeds you will see listed on our website.

The way I read that is they don't carry the same speed tiers as Videtron. Just like Teksavvy doesn't. Just like Ebox doesn't.

Not everyone carries the 60-meg tier. Not everyone carries the 120-meg tier. Not everyone carries the 200-meg tier.

I think you completely misunderstood what it was they were saying.

They don't state they worked out a deal to not get the 10-meg upload. Not even close.

LanAdmin, do you see the 120-meg speed tier on Ebox? Or the 60-meg on Teksavvy?

No. That is likely what they mean.

Or do you want to say Teksavvy and Ebox made a deal also to not get the 10-meg upstream and whatever else?

I don't see the 10-meg upstream on Ebox. That must mean they made a deal to never get it. Right?