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Samgee

join:2010-08-02
canada
kudos:2
reply to xsbell

Re: What does the CBB ruling mean to you and me?

said by xsbell:

I'm not trying convince anyone that it's a bad deal, my gripe is calling it a 28Mbps plan when you're only going to get 18Mbps when you use it.

How about 35/3 for $49.95/month from Start, and they won't rate limit during peak hours. Sure it's only 250GB of usage, but honestly, how many people are going to go over that? Not too many.

You have no gripe since they are calling it exactly what it is. They aren't being misleading, and based on what I read in these forums and others many of the other providers users are seeing speed reductions during peak times, only they are paying for full speeds that aren't there.

Many suspect we may see some price changes or cap reductions from Start based on recent comments by it's operator who has said they were previously operating at a loss expecting pricing in the recent ruling to come down, when costs instead went up. For now if you are not worried about usage, then that is not a bad deal from start (still $6 more a month). We'll see if it lasts. It doesn't work for me because it's not unlimited, which is far more important to me than an extra 7 down.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Acanac Inc

said by Acanac Inc:

I will not get into the max rate limit since it has already been discuses in the previous posts.

In regards to your question if 250GB is enough? In my opinion not even close. If your an over the top IPTV client you can easily expect to exceed 250GB. Over the last several months I have been consistently using over 1TB per month. This is with 3-4 -STB's in the house. Usually 3 since one is in debug mode.

Why not offer a higher tier with no throttling for an additional fee?
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac

said by Guspaz:

Why not offer a higher tier with no throttling for an additional fee?

it would make more sense to offer an higher tier, period.
Like a 60 Mbps cable rate-limited to 30 Mbps during peak hours.

It make no sense to throttle all day to 30 Mbps when you could offer 60 Mbps most of the time for the same price.

dgass

join:2007-09-27
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Acanac Inc

said by Acanac Inc:

I will not get into the max rate limit since it has already been discuses in the previous posts.

In regards to your question if 250GB is enough? In my opinion not even close. If your an over the top IPTV client you can easily expect to exceed 250GB. Over the last several months I have been consistently using over 1TB per month. This is with 3-4 -STB's in the house. Usually 3 since one is in debug mode.

I've read this thread over, and I must ask has anyone mentioned that this rate limit that is in place does it also reduce lag spikes? I've been with Teksavvy DSL for years. But family and friends chose to go with Tek Cable and they seem to get lag spikes in the evenings. So for all us gamers out there that are gaming during prime time and NOT streaming I think this network management is PERFECT. On top of it you would enjoy a lower monthly cost to other indies for an unlimited account.

My connection is the 25/10 VDSL with Tek unlimited with static IP pretty $$. I have not seen any ripple or lag spikes but cable users sure seem to.


pick picking

@videotron.ca
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

Why not offer a higher tier with no throttling for an additional fee?

Why though? If people want that they can go elsewhere. There are other resellers. Why do they need to offer this?


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

said by Acanac Inc:

I will not get into the max rate limit since it has already been discuses in the previous posts.

In regards to your question if 250GB is enough? In my opinion not even close. If your an over the top IPTV client you can easily expect to exceed 250GB. Over the last several months I have been consistently using over 1TB per month. This is with 3-4 -STB's in the house. Usually 3 since one is in debug mode.

Why not offer a higher tier with no throttling for an additional fee?

Technically it's already offered through our parent company »www.distributel.ca/en/category.a···Internet

Our current plans are tailored at a specific subset of clientele. We can't be everything to everyone.


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
reply to dgass

said by dgass:

said by Acanac Inc:

I will not get into the max rate limit since it has already been discuses in the previous posts.

In regards to your question if 250GB is enough? In my opinion not even close. If your an over the top IPTV client you can easily expect to exceed 250GB. Over the last several months I have been consistently using over 1TB per month. This is with 3-4 -STB's in the house. Usually 3 since one is in debug mode.

I've read this thread over, and I must ask has anyone mentioned that this rate limit that is in place does it also reduce lag spikes? I've been with Teksavvy DSL for years. But family and friends chose to go with Tek Cable and they seem to get lag spikes in the evenings. So for all us gamers out there that are gaming during prime time and NOT streaming I think this network management is PERFECT. On top of it you would enjoy a lower monthly cost to other indies for an unlimited account.

My connection is the 25/10 VDSL with Tek unlimited with static IP pretty $$. I have not seen any ripple or lag spikes but cable users sure seem to.

This is one of biggest advantages of using Rate limiting over line saturation. Simply put if it's done correctly lag is avoided.

Now in regards to the Cable service. In some areas it has nothing to do with the independent ISP. The problem may be accuring even before it reaches the ISP's interconnects. If that is the case it's up-to to incumbent to resolve the issue.


rogerstv

@teksavvy.com

And that's why I just switched to Acanac, I hover between 250gb to 300 thanks to Netflix and kids in the house and don't want to look over my should in case there's a spike one month and I'm paying .50/gb Robbers charges .75/gb. This is the perfect storm to shake up the industry and Acanac became the logical choice. Sure I'm stuck with 1GB upload but this provider doesn't seem to have complaints for congestion /performance issues. Now I have a year to see what the industry does. This is a golden opportunity for bell to get more fiber out there and steal customers away from Robbers as well since DSL costs have been adjusted down. Notice the incumbants try to entice with new speeds while constantly reducing the caps because they don't want our money going to Netflix and Hulu south of the border. Robbers and BHELL created this problem themselves with constant price hikes, $70/month is ridiculous for watching commercials.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to hm

said by hm :

said by Davesnothere:

Mayhaps we got trolled.

You got trolled.
I played along.

 
Yeah, Yeah, right....

And if our friendly neighbourhood character feels so strongly against Acanac, they ought to change their screen name, and then hang on tight for when the OTHER Indie ISPs soon decide to announce similar network management policies.

Yes, coming soon to a DSLR thread near you....

I know of one other IISP who has posted that they are considering a similar stragety, so there MUST be others discussing it in their back rooms as we post here.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits
reply to d_source

said by d_source:

To each their own. I'd prefer an unlimited and somewhat throttled internet vs an unthrottled but capped internet any day of the week....

said by d_source:

....We need to support 'unlimited' [monthly usage] more than anything else....

 
While I personally do not share your feelings/needs (I'm OK with caps as long as the caps are not TOO stupidly low), I DO agree with those who say that if IISPs want to sell unlimited monthly usage, that they will have to the limit momentary bandwidth (aka the speed) for some of the time.

We simply cannot have everything at once here, and those who still think that we can just do not understand the dynamics of how it all works.

Sorry, but it's true, folks.

The only thing remaining to be decided is just how much our IISPs feel that they will need to compromise one factor to achieve another, and which factor it is that each figures to be more important to them and their customers.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to Acanac Inc

said by Acanac Inc:

....Our current plans are tailored at a specific subset of clientele.

We can't be everything to everyone.

 
BINGO !!!

Same as I said just above, that we cannot have the best of all things at the same time, AND keep the price reasonable too.

And if an IISP tried to, it would fail, just as some other IISPs who figure that they can may well learn (and still others have already).


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to hm

I do have to say, with Paul's comments here earlier on in the week/last weekend, I was extremely excited about the release of the rates, particularly cable in Quebec.

Your the perfect example for the post above. Potentially our 60Mbps service we be just as cost effect as our competitors 30Mbps service. At worst you will get 30Mbps during peak periods and 60Mbps 19 hours out of the day. The choice to make is a clear based on the assumptions above.

I have to say, I'm awfully disappointed now. The 30Mbps package for Acanac goes at $65/month if you are going month to month (which is what I would be doing). I can hardly see them matching my 30 Mbps/500GB capped package with Ebox with a cheaper 60Mbps Unlimited package when they can't do that with a 30Mbps Unlimited package.

Had they been just $5/month cheaper, I might have been able to convince the accountant(aka my wife) to switch, but there is no way in hell now.


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC

With Acanac you have to go for yearly terms.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

It's still the same as what I'm paying now with Ebox, then you have the fees and everything on top of that for switching. I'd be looking at an $800 bill and just can't afford to do that right now. To be honest, until all the rate limiting plays out, even if I had $800 to spend, I wouldn't.

I could potentially see myself going for 3 or 6 months after I'm comfortable and have had it for a couple of months....

I'm just really disappointed as I was gearing up for a 60mbps package for the same or less, as Paul indicated in my quote above, as my Ebox package. Quite obviously, there is no way they will be doing that if they can't even match the current package I'm on now...

Not saying their prices aren't good, just saying I expected a whole lot more with the hype Paul was playing up.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Acanac Inc

said by Acanac Inc:

This is one of biggest advantages of using Rate limiting over line saturation. Simply put if it's done correctly lag is avoided.

You could run with saturated links and still have no lag (on sensitive traffic) if there was proper QoS tagging and priority-based queuing both ways throughout the network and incumbents honored QoS tagging within their network.

Of course, there is no such support in current GAS/TPIA tariffs. This is just one more of those things that would be possible if incumbents could be convinced to do things properly the modern way rather than stick to ancient and inefficient ways of doing things.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to rednekcowboy

I dunno what hype you are referring to. He pretty much told it as it is and was upfront about it. Maybe also because you are newish here? as said further up in this topic, everything stated here is what he also stated about 2 years ago. So many people are already aware of the throttling (if and when they throttle). And everyone already knows the dollar jumpers (a lot of his clients) go for the yearly contract savings.

It's not my cup of tea, but each to their own. As you stated, you have a choice and it offers a choice.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

said by hm :

I dunno what hype you are referring to. He pretty much told it as it is and was upfront about it. Maybe also because you are newish here? as said further up in this topic, everything stated here is what he also stated about 2 years ago. So many people are already aware of the throttling (if and when they throttle). And everyone already knows the dollar jumpers (a lot of his clients) go for the yearly contract savings.

It's not my cup of tea, but each to their own. As you stated, you have a choice and it offers a choice.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, hell I even quoted it.

He said that, and I quote yet again, "our 60Mbps service we be just as cost effect as our competitors 30Mbps service" and we went on in that conversation and expanded on it.

What I'm disappointed in is the fact that can't even match the price I'm paying now for a 30Mbps, how are they going to offer a 60 Mbps for less than that?

Again, I'm not saying Acanac is not good, I'm just saying I'm very disappointed in the offerings, as Paul led me to believe that there was going to be a huge shocker of a price.

Now, that is the third time I've said it, do I really need to say it again?


hm

@videotron.ca

said by rednekcowboy:

Now, that is the third time I've said it, do I really need to say it again?

What did you say three times? You don't like contracts?

psst, Dave, »Re: What does the CBB ruling mean to you and me?

Samgee

join:2010-08-02
canada
kudos:2
reply to hm

Well, until we see the official prices from everyone we can't really come to any conclusions yet about comparisons.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to hm

said by hm :

said by rednekcowboy:

Now, that is the third time I've said it, do I really need to say it again?

What did you say three times? You don't like contracts?

psst, Dave, »Re: What does the CBB ruling mean to you and me?

Have a few too many tonight? Generally you know how to read, though you seem to be having some difficulty.....


hm

@videotron.ca

said by rednekcowboy:

Have a few too many tonight?

Unfortunately no. I'm in need a few too many. No one is going to be offering "shocking prices". It's regulated pricing.


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

4 edits

How the current CBB pricing works.

Let's assume we are talking about 1Gbps interconnects for the sake of keep things simple. Now let's also assume that each 1Gbps or 1000Mbps costs $10K per month.

(The numbers above and below don't necessarily reflect what a 1Gbps line can cost or the amount of clients it can service. They are just for the sake of the argument )

1. Let's assume each 1000Mbps can service 2000 6Mbps DSL clients during peak hours.

2. Now let's assume the 6Mbps line is rate limited to a maximum of 3Mbps during this peak hour period.

3. This same 1000Mbps line can now service 3000 clients instead of the original 2000.

4. Cost per client goes from $5 to $3.30

5. The savings can then get passed on to the client in terms of lower monthly fee's.

We are paying for the 1Gbps interconnect to meet peak hour spikes. What happens off peak hours has no impact on our costs. A picture is worth a thousand words so I have attached one.

As you can see our highest peak on this 1Gbps interconnect occurred at around 21:30. What happened before 21:30 and after 21:30 had no impact on our costs. We just need to make sure that the 1Gbps interconnect does not get saturated at any given time. Saturation equals lag and packet loss. During these potential peaks is where our rate limiting would kick in.

It even get's more interesting.

Why do some ISP's charge for both download and upload usage? These are full duplex connections. We don't pay any extra for the upload side. Assuming most ISP's are just like us they are in no danger of ever saturating the upload side of the line based on the MTRG graph above.

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to rednekcowboy

said by rednekcowboy:

It's still the same as what I'm paying now with Ebox, then you have the fees and everything on top of that for switching. I'd be looking at an $800 bill and just can't afford to do that right now. To be honest, until all the rate limiting plays out, even if I had $800 to spend, I wouldn't.

I could potentially see myself going for 3 or 6 months after I'm comfortable and have had it for a couple of months....

I'm just really disappointed as I was gearing up for a 60mbps package for the same or less, as Paul indicated in my quote above, as my Ebox package. Quite obviously, there is no way they will be doing that if they can't even match the current package I'm on now...

Not saying their prices aren't good, just saying I expected a whole lot more with the hype Paul was playing up.

Acanac is $57 for unlimited 30/3 Mbps.
Ebox is $57 for unlimited 10/1.5 Mbps.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to Acanac Inc

said by Acanac Inc:

....We are paying for the 1Gbps interconnect to meet peak hour spikes. What happens off peak hours has no impact on our costs. A picture is worth a thousand words so I have attached one.

As you can see our highest peak on this 1Gbps interconnect occurred at around 21:30. What happened before 21:30 and after 21:30 had no impact on our costs. We just need to make sure that the 1Gbps interconnect does not get saturated at any given time. Saturation equals lag and packet loss [and wholesale CBB cost increases]. During these potential peaks is where our rate limiting would kick in....

 
And anyone who thinks that you will limit their bandwidth (speed) to half for the entire 'peak' hours period (the period which you publish) is either paranoid or has an agenda against your company (or both).

BTW, I take it that the blue line is the customers' downstream demand and the green shading is our upstream ?

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

LanAdmin

join:2010-11-07
Montreal, QC
reply to Acanac Inc

If you ever have to limit speed, how can you do that without getting higher ping for voip or gaming?



Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by Acanac Inc:

....We are paying for the 1Gbps interconnect to meet peak hour spikes. What happens off peak hours has no impact on our costs. A picture is worth a thousand words so I have attached one.

As you can see our highest peak on this 1Gbps interconnect occurred at around 21:30. What happened before 21:30 and after 21:30 had no impact on our costs. We just need to make sure that the 1Gbps interconnect does not get saturated at any given time. Saturation equals lag and packet loss [and wholesale CBB cost increases]. During these potential peaks is where our rate limiting would kick in....

 
And anyone who thinks that you will limit their bandwidth (speed) to half for the entire 'peak' hours period (the period which you publish) is either paranoid or has an agenda against your company (or both).

BTW, I take it that the blue line is the customers' downstream demand and the green shading is our upstream ?

That is correct. Green is upstream and blue is Downstream.


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
reply to LanAdmin

said by LanAdmin:

If you ever have to limit speed, how can you do that without getting higher ping for voip or gaming?

It does end up adding a few extra ms however nothing to be concerned with. (Around 3ms to 10ms)


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to zorxd

No, Acanac is $59.95 (the new rates) for 30/3 Unlimited and that is only if you pay 12 months in advance. If you go month to month (which Ebox is how Ebox bills), it is $65/month. Ebox is $59.95 for 30/3 with a 500 GB cap (which would essentially be unlimited for a lot of people, just not me ).



Fergless
Premium
join:2008-04-19
Toronto, ON
kudos:1

Acanac's proposed Cable Rates:
»community.acanac.com/Acanac/view···#p131286


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to rednekcowboy

said by rednekcowboy:

No, Acanac is $59.95 (the new rates) for 30/3 Unlimited and that is only if you pay 12 months in advance. If you go month to month (which Ebox is how Ebox bills), it is $65/month. Ebox is $59.95 for 30/3 with a 500 GB cap (which would essentially be unlimited for a lot of people, just not me ).

Ebox will probably raise prices too. It's just a matter of time, given the CRTC decision.
Also it's not worth $5/month to go month to month.
You can still get unlimited 30 Mbps for $57 if you order today.