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hm

@videotron.ca
reply to rednekcowboy

Re: What does the CBB ruling mean to you and me?

said by rednekcowboy:

Have a few too many tonight?

Unfortunately no. I'm in need a few too many. No one is going to be offering "shocking prices". It's regulated pricing.


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

4 edits
How the current CBB pricing works.

Let's assume we are talking about 1Gbps interconnects for the sake of keep things simple. Now let's also assume that each 1Gbps or 1000Mbps costs $10K per month.

(The numbers above and below don't necessarily reflect what a 1Gbps line can cost or the amount of clients it can service. They are just for the sake of the argument )

1. Let's assume each 1000Mbps can service 2000 6Mbps DSL clients during peak hours.

2. Now let's assume the 6Mbps line is rate limited to a maximum of 3Mbps during this peak hour period.

3. This same 1000Mbps line can now service 3000 clients instead of the original 2000.

4. Cost per client goes from $5 to $3.30

5. The savings can then get passed on to the client in terms of lower monthly fee's.

We are paying for the 1Gbps interconnect to meet peak hour spikes. What happens off peak hours has no impact on our costs. A picture is worth a thousand words so I have attached one.

As you can see our highest peak on this 1Gbps interconnect occurred at around 21:30. What happened before 21:30 and after 21:30 had no impact on our costs. We just need to make sure that the 1Gbps interconnect does not get saturated at any given time. Saturation equals lag and packet loss. During these potential peaks is where our rate limiting would kick in.

It even get's more interesting.

Why do some ISP's charge for both download and upload usage? These are full duplex connections. We don't pay any extra for the upload side. Assuming most ISP's are just like us they are in no danger of ever saturating the upload side of the line based on the MTRG graph above.

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

It's still the same as what I'm paying now with Ebox, then you have the fees and everything on top of that for switching. I'd be looking at an $800 bill and just can't afford to do that right now. To be honest, until all the rate limiting plays out, even if I had $800 to spend, I wouldn't.

I could potentially see myself going for 3 or 6 months after I'm comfortable and have had it for a couple of months....

I'm just really disappointed as I was gearing up for a 60mbps package for the same or less, as Paul indicated in my quote above, as my Ebox package. Quite obviously, there is no way they will be doing that if they can't even match the current package I'm on now...

Not saying their prices aren't good, just saying I expected a whole lot more with the hype Paul was playing up.

Acanac is $57 for unlimited 30/3 Mbps.
Ebox is $57 for unlimited 10/1.5 Mbps.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to Acanac Inc
said by Acanac Inc:

....We are paying for the 1Gbps interconnect to meet peak hour spikes. What happens off peak hours has no impact on our costs. A picture is worth a thousand words so I have attached one.

As you can see our highest peak on this 1Gbps interconnect occurred at around 21:30. What happened before 21:30 and after 21:30 had no impact on our costs. We just need to make sure that the 1Gbps interconnect does not get saturated at any given time. Saturation equals lag and packet loss [and wholesale CBB cost increases]. During these potential peaks is where our rate limiting would kick in....

 
And anyone who thinks that you will limit their bandwidth (speed) to half for the entire 'peak' hours period (the period which you publish) is either paranoid or has an agenda against your company (or both).

BTW, I take it that the blue line is the customers' downstream demand and the green shading is our upstream ?

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

LanAdmin

join:2010-11-07
Montreal, QC
reply to Acanac Inc
If you ever have to limit speed, how can you do that without getting higher ping for voip or gaming?


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

said by Acanac Inc:

....We are paying for the 1Gbps interconnect to meet peak hour spikes. What happens off peak hours has no impact on our costs. A picture is worth a thousand words so I have attached one.

As you can see our highest peak on this 1Gbps interconnect occurred at around 21:30. What happened before 21:30 and after 21:30 had no impact on our costs. We just need to make sure that the 1Gbps interconnect does not get saturated at any given time. Saturation equals lag and packet loss [and wholesale CBB cost increases]. During these potential peaks is where our rate limiting would kick in....

 
And anyone who thinks that you will limit their bandwidth (speed) to half for the entire 'peak' hours period (the period which you publish) is either paranoid or has an agenda against your company (or both).

BTW, I take it that the blue line is the customers' downstream demand and the green shading is our upstream ?

That is correct. Green is upstream and blue is Downstream.


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
reply to LanAdmin
said by LanAdmin:

If you ever have to limit speed, how can you do that without getting higher ping for voip or gaming?

It does end up adding a few extra ms however nothing to be concerned with. (Around 3ms to 10ms)


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to zorxd
No, Acanac is $59.95 (the new rates) for 30/3 Unlimited and that is only if you pay 12 months in advance. If you go month to month (which Ebox is how Ebox bills), it is $65/month. Ebox is $59.95 for 30/3 with a 500 GB cap (which would essentially be unlimited for a lot of people, just not me ).


Fergless
Premium
join:2008-04-19
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
Acanac's proposed Cable Rates:
»community.acanac.com/Acanac/view···#p131286

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

No, Acanac is $59.95 (the new rates) for 30/3 Unlimited and that is only if you pay 12 months in advance. If you go month to month (which Ebox is how Ebox bills), it is $65/month. Ebox is $59.95 for 30/3 with a 500 GB cap (which would essentially be unlimited for a lot of people, just not me ).

Ebox will probably raise prices too. It's just a matter of time, given the CRTC decision.
Also it's not worth $5/month to go month to month.
You can still get unlimited 30 Mbps for $57 if you order today.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by zorxd:

said by rednekcowboy:

No, Acanac is $59.95 (the new rates) for 30/3 Unlimited and that is only if you pay 12 months in advance. If you go month to month (which Ebox is how Ebox bills), it is $65/month. Ebox is $59.95 for 30/3 with a 500 GB cap (which would essentially be unlimited for a lot of people, just not me ).

Ebox will probably raise prices too. It's just a matter of time, given the CRTC decision.
Also it's not worth $5/month to go month to month.
You can still get unlimited 30 Mbps for $57 if you order today.

I won't comment on Ebox's rates as I will leave that up to Diskace, it's not my place to say but I will say that it's not the $5/month, it's the $885.50 bill that you will get. In today's economy, most people don't have that kind of spare cash lying around to pay all at once. I'm happy you do, but I don't (well I do, but I prefer to have a little money in the bank for emergencies....).

So it's not that I'd be choosing to pay the extra $5/month, it's just that I have no other options.....

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
Well I can't speak because I am one of those lucky free for life customer.
However with current interest rates you are better to get a loan at the bank than paying a $5/month overcharge for your internet.

But in the end if you use less than 250GB every month well it is just plain cheaper to stay with Ebox. It's good to have choice.

DSL_Ricer
Premium
join:2007-07-22
kudos:3
reply to LanAdmin
said by LanAdmin:

If you ever have to limit speed, how can you do that without getting higher ping for voip or gaming?

Do you torrent or do mass parallel downloading while gaming? If not, you're probably below the target rate and thus won't be limited.
If you only have a few ongoing downloads from the web, depending on Acanac's buffering settings, TCP congestion control should kick in and there should be fairly little degradation to your latency.

Lag problems only occur when buffers are too big. But as a corollary, if you have to little buffers (or to little buffers relative to the amount of connections you have), congestion control will not hit connections equally or will over penalize bursts.

LanAdmin

join:2010-11-07
Montreal, QC
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·voip.ms
I was asking how do they "rate limit" because when an IIPS get congestion, ping can get very high like this example with Teksavvy.


Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

2 edits
Like I sated in some of the previous posts sometimes the type of congestion above is out of the control the independent ISP's. It happens on the incumbent side before it even reaches the ISP's interconnects.

If these slow downs are due to over subscription of the interconnects this is exactly where our rate limit would kick in while waiting for the incumbent to finish the upgrades. As we all should know by now these upgrades can some times take months to be completed.

In a rate limited environment you would not experience the packet loss or the high ping rates. You would also maintain your speeds up to the max rate limit.

With that said you can expect around 3ms to 10ms increase when the rate limiting is activated. I am assuming this would not cause you any significant impact.

LastDon

join:2002-08-13
reply to hm
best would to ask some acanac users to post results during limit hours, to see real world impact


Fergless
Premium
join:2008-04-19
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
AFAIK Rate Limiting isn't in effect yet.

Samgee

join:2010-08-02
canada
kudos:2
reply to LastDon
said by LastDon:

best would to ask some acanac users to post results during limit hours, to see real world impact

No impact to my usage at all. 8pm on a Saturday (speed boost impacts this);



Acanac20Mbps

@distributel.net
reply to Fergless
said by Fergless:

Acanac's proposed Cable Rates:
»community.acanac.com/Acanac/view···#p131286

Quebec Cable rate already high compare to Ontario. Now, they increase $3 dollars compare to the older rate for 30Mbps. I hope Acanac will introduce the 20Mbps plan and the price in the middle between the 10Mbps and 30Mbps. A lot of people don't really need the high speed 30Mbps. 20Mbps is good enough and they can save $10 / month.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by Acanac20Mbps :

said by Fergless:

Acanac's proposed Cable Rates:
»community.acanac.com/Acanac/view···#p131286

Quebec Cable rate already high compare to Ontario. Now, they increase $3 dollars compare to the older rate for 30Mbps. I hope Acanac will introduce the 20Mbps plan and the price in the middle between the 10Mbps and 30Mbps. A lot of people don't really need the high speed 30Mbps. 20Mbps is good enough and they can save $10 / month.

Acanac will not have a 20 Mbps plan. I already asked Paul about this.

LanAdmin

join:2010-11-07
Montreal, QC
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·voip.ms

2 edits
reply to Acanac20Mbps
said by Acanac20Mbps :

Quebec Cable rate already high compare to Ontario. Now, they increase $3 dollars compare to the older rate for 30Mbps. I hope Acanac will introduce the 20Mbps plan and the price in the middle between the 10Mbps and 30Mbps. A lot of people don't really need the high speed 30Mbps. 20Mbps is good enough and they can save $10 / month.

That would be great.
Velcom just did it but limited to 300GB/month:
8Mbps/40$, 20Mbps/51$, 30Mbps/60$

DeViLzzz

join:2004-07-29
Sarnia, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to hm
Guys are Distributel's rates on their web page for cable taking into consideration what the CBB ruling meant for them or are there changes coming from them soon too ?

I am interested in their 28 Mbps DL and 1 Mbps UL with unlimited for under $50.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
yeah I want to do know too as I much change them to them soon.

d_source

join:2011-01-18
reply to DeViLzzz
I've been with Distributel for over a year. Those are the same rates prior to the CBB ruling. Hopefully they won't change or will change very little. I'm fine with my current speeds and rate (I'm on cable 18). Bigger better faster isn't a priority with me. Cheaper/unlimited is. Distributel is still non-aggregated BTW.

DeViLzzz

join:2004-07-29
Sarnia, ON
What does non-aggregated mean ?

GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

1 recommendation

Aggregated providers hook into a single point to access all of Rogers/Cogeco/Videotron's cable network. It's the way going forward.

Non-aggregated have to hook into each regional POI (connection hub), so to offer service in a new city, the indies have to actually deploy equipment there. This is how cable access was originally done, but it's being phased out.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
said by GreenEnvy22:

Non-aggregated have to hook into each regional POI (connection hub), so to offer service in a new city, the indies have to actually deploy equipment there. This is how cable access was originally done, but it's being phased out.

AFAIK, Rogers is the only one who has/had such a heavily fragmented POI arrangement to the point that even individual cities could end up split into multiple POIs.

Videotron switched to aggregated before the UBB/CBB thing even began. Back then, almost nobody knew TPIA even existed and had not much of a reason to bother with it since wholesale prices and caps were carbon copies of Videotron's own. For most intents and purposes, you could say Videotron has never been non-aggregated since they had almost no wholesale subscribers prior to that.


hm

@videotron.ca
said by InvalidError:

they had almost no wholesale subscribers prior to that.

There were a few. 3men@work is one of them. This, if i'm not mistaken, is what Ebox used to resell (Ebox was a reseller of a wholesaler up until a couple of years ago). I think you can likely use search in this forum to see this.

3men@work wasn't the only ones.
Expand your moderator at work