 TigerLordResident pentaxianPremium,Mod join:2002-06-09 Canada kudos:6 Reviews:
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| "Mother Theresa: Anything but a Saint" "Serge Larivée, Professor, Department of Psychoeducation, University of Montreal, and colleagues Carole Sénéchal and Genevieve Chenard, in the context of a scientific paper to be published in the March issue of the journal Studies in Religion / Religious Studies , provide an analysis of the published literature on Mother Teresa which debunks the myth of altruism and generosity attached to the character. Like the journalist and author Christopher Hitchens, quoted extensively in their analysis, they conclude that the construction of a haloed figure of holiness - which does not hold up when the facts are looked upon - and her beatification were orchestrated by an effective media relations operation." http://www.nouvelles.umontreal.ca/recherche/theologie-religions/20130221-mere-teresa-tout-sauf-une-sainte.html?utm_source=infolettre&utm_medium=courriel&utm_campaign=udemnouvelles I wonder if it'll be released only in French, or whether a translation will be available? |
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 ZZZZZZZPremium join:2001-05-27 PARADISE kudos:1 Reviews:
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| Who cares?
Why do people insist on trashing others to justify their own insecurities or make a name for themselves.
Look at this airhead in London,Hillary Mantel.........attacking a pregnant Kate.............have you seen the pictures of this supposed woman?
Scarey! -- Sarcasm is the bodys natural defense against stupidity. |
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 | reply to TigerLord I assume the authors of this report are Athiests like the man they "quoted extensively"
Do I think she was perfect?? By no means... but I do think that Hitchens had an agenda (and by using him extensively so do the authors). -- "The hardest thing about any political campaign is how to win without proving that you are unworthy of winning." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson |
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 StyvasGolf Canucks GolfPremium join:2004-09-15 Hamilton, ON | reply to TigerLord I have no idea if Mother Theresa should have been made a saint or not (and since I'm not Catholic, I don't overly care). But what the authors seem to be missing is that the beatification of an individual is a religious, faith-based process and not one based on economic or political sensitivities.
In the same way that the upcoming conclave to choose the next pope is considered to be a process ordained by and led by God, the processes and procedures used by the Church to choose saints is similarly "holy."
It's irrelevant what people like Hitchens and others think about her and her work. What's important is what the Church thinks. |
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 | Styvas it is also important to see what the people she minstered to think of her... they loved her
Dr. Mark Buntain (a Pentecostal working in Calcutta before he died) had praise of her work among the poor (as did she for him) -- "The hardest thing about any political campaign is how to win without proving that you are unworthy of winning." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson |
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 StyvasGolf Canucks GolfPremium join:2004-09-15 Hamilton, ON | said by BigSensFan: Styvas it is also important to see what the people she minstered to think of her... they loved her
Dr. Mark Buntain (a Pentecostal working in Calcutta before he died) had praise of her work among the poor (as did she for him) For sure, but I wonder if, in and of itself, that is really relevant either. What if they didn't love and appreciate her? What if they couldn't recognize the good that she was doing for them and they reviled her?
There are plenty of saints, I would l think, who were canonized after their death at the hands of persecutors who saw them as worthy of only death and punishment. Only after the fact was it recognized that they were worthy of sainthood. Not so much at the time. |
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 | reply to ZZZZZZZ said by ZZZZZZZ:Who cares?
Why do people insist on trashing others to justify their own insecurities or make a name for themselves.
Look at this airhead in London,Hillary Mantel.........attacking a pregnant Kate.............have you seen the pictures of this supposed woman?
Scarey! Irony! |
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| reply to BigSensFan said by BigSensFan:Do I think she was perfect?? By no means... but I do think that Hitchens had an agenda (and by using him extensively so do the authors). Yea, I think it takes a certain kind of asshole to try and prove that Mother Theresa was not the saint that inspired so many people to be better people. There's plenty of first hand stories of people that experienced her as a great person so regardless of what one guy says, who gives a shit?
From Wikipedia quote: In 1982, at the height of the Siege of Beirut, Mother Teresa rescued 37 children trapped in a front line hospital by brokering a temporary cease-fire between the Israeli army and Palestinian guerrillas. Accompanied by Red Cross workers, she travelled through the war zone to the devastated hospital to evacuate the young patients.
Was that a media relations operation orchestrated with the Israelis and Palestinians? |
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 | reply to TigerLord perhaps this should be moved to /canpol or should that be /canmumbojumbotryingtoexplain'spooky'stuffinaprescientificthoughtkindaway |
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 | reply to TigerLord Seems poor they must rely on arguments put forth by another, there is plenty of material that paint Mother Theresa as an advocate for self-perpetuated suffering and misery.
As it stands she isn't a saint, though her church is busy ramming ahead with the process ignoring both evidence and facts to reach a pre-drawn conclusion that she must become a saint. |
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 ZZZZZZZPremium join:2001-05-27 PARADISE kudos:1 Reviews:
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| quote: She was the recipient of numerous honours including the 1979 Nobel Peace Prize. She refused the conventional ceremonial banquet given to laureates, and asked that the $192,000 funds be given to the poor in India. Her awards include the first Pope John XXIII Peace Prize, the Philippines-based Ramon Magsaysay Award, the Pacem in Terris Award, an honorary Companion of the Order of Australia, the Order of Merit from both the United Kingdom and the United States, Albania's Golden Honour of the Nation, honorary degrees, the Balzan Prize, and the Albert Schweitzer International Prize among many others.
Mother Teresa stated that earthly rewards were important only if they helped her help the world's needy. When Mother Teresa received the Nobel Peace Prize, she was asked, "What can we do to promote world peace?" She answered "Go home and love your family." In her Nobel Lecture, she said: "Around the world, not only in the poor countries, but I found the poverty of the West so much more difficult to remove. When I pick up a person from the street, hungry, I give him a plate of rice, a piece of bread, I have satisfied. I have removed that hunger. But a person that is shut out, that feels unwanted, unloved, terrified, the person that has been thrown out from society that poverty is so hurtable [sic] and so much, and I find that very difficult." .
Saint is only 1 definition of a word.
I wonder how many people here would have given their life to accomplish what she did? -- Sarcasm is the bodys natural defense against stupidity. |
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 capdjqRIP my friendPremium join:2000-11-01 Coastie | reply to TigerLord Anybody who spent their life in the Slums of Calcutta (a hell on earth if I might personally attest), cradling the lepers, the dying, the people with TB and other diseases is entitled to the frailties of human beings. Those who can do, those who can't criticize. |
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| reply to Thane_Bitter said by Thane_Bitter:As it stands she isn't a saint, though her church is busy ramming ahead with the process ignoring both evidence and facts to reach a pre-drawn conclusion that she must become a saint. Not sure how old you are but it was a societal conclusion before whatever silly notions you have about the church popped into your head. She's been featured on the covers of every major magazine from Time to National Geographic with plenty of factual accountings of the work she'd done. Let's not forget she was bestowed a Nobel Peace Prize, probably before you were born... the money of which she donated to the poor. |
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 TigerLordResident pentaxianPremium,Mod join:2002-06-09 Canada kudos:6 Reviews:
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| reply to TigerLord Serge Larivee, Professor, Department of Psychoeducation, University of Montreal, and colleagues Carole Sénéchal and Genevieve Chenard, in the context of a scientific paper to be published in the March issue of the journal Studies in Religion / Religious Studies , provide an analysis of the published literature on Mother Teresa which debunks the myth of altruism and generosity attached to the character. Like the journalist and author Christopher Hitchens, quoted extensively in their analysis, they conclude that the construction of a haloed figure of holiness - which resists, however, to analyze the facts - and whose beatification was orchestrated by an effective media relations operation.
"While we were looking for documentation on the phenomenon of altruism in a seminar on ethics, one of us fell on the life and work of one of the most acclaimed female of the Catholic Church and now part of our collective imagination: Mother Teresa, whose real name was Agnes Gonxha says Professor Larivée. The description made was so ecstatic that it piqued our curiosity and made us want to push our research further. ' The three researchers consulted 502 works devoted to the life and work of Mother Teresa. After eliminating 195 duplicates, the they consulted 287 books to carry out their analysis work, which represents 96% of the literature on the founder of the Order of the Missionaries of Charity (MC).
Facts debunking the myth of Mother Teresa In their article, Serge Larivee and colleagues also reported a number of problems, including facts the Vatican has not taken into account in the process of beatification of Mother Teresa, including "her peculiar way of caring for the sick , questionable political contacts, her curious management of astronomical sums of money she had received and excessive dogmatism when it came to abortion, contraception and divorce."
Patients must suffer like Christ on the cross At the time of her death, Mother Teresa opened 517 missions, welcoming the poor and sick in more than 100 countries. These missions were described by physicians who visited several of these facilities in Calcutta. Two-thirds of people attending these missions were hoping to find a doctor to be treated and the other third was dying without receiving appropriate care. The physicians observed a significant lack of hygiene in the premises, even unhealthy, a shortage of actual care, inadequate diet and lack of painkillers. It is not a lack of money that is at stake - the Foundation set up by Mother Teresa had raised hundreds of millions of dollars - but a particular conception of suffering and death: "There is something nice to see the poor to accept their lot, to suffer as Christ's passion. The world makes a lot of their suffering." And yet, when Mother Teresa needed palliative care, it is in a modern American hospital that she received them.
Questionable political contacts and obscure accounting Mother Teresa was very generous with her prayers, but sparing millions of its foundation under the sufferings of humanity. At many major floods in India and in the explosion of a pesticide plant in Bhopal, she offered her prayers and medals of the Blessed Virgin, but no direct help or money. She had no problem accepting the Legion of Honor and a grant from the Duvalier dictatorship in Haiti. Millions of dollars transited across various bank accounts of many MC, but most accounts were kept secret, Serge Larivee says. Given the "parsimonious character of the management of Mother Teresa's works, one may ask where are the millions for the poorest of the poor?" the researchers wondered.
A great media plan to holiness Despite these disturbing facts, how did Mother Teresa succeeded to build an image of holiness and infinite goodness? According to the three academic meeting in London in 1968 by Malcolm Muggeridge the BBC journalist anti-abortion sharing the values of the right-wing Catholic, is crucial. He decides to promote the religious discovers the effectiveness of mass media. In 1969 he made a film on the dithyrambic missionary and he promotes saying that we can see the "first photographic miracle," which he attributed to Mother Teresa when it should be attributed to the new film marketed by Kodak. Consequently many trips to religious on five continents, numerous awards, the most prestigious Nobel peace. In his acceptance speech, on the Bosnian Serbs and raped by seeking an abortion, she said: "I feel the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, Because it is a live war, has direct killing - direct murder by the mother herself . '
Following her death, the Vatican decided not to wait the usual five years before opening the beatification. The miracle attributed to her is the healing of a woman, Monica Besra, suffering from intense pain in the abdomen. The application on the abdomen of a medal blessed by Mother Teresa would have healed the woman. However, doctors say otherwise: ovarian cyst she suffered from tuberculosis were cured by the medicines they had given her. The Vatican still concludes miracle. Mother Teresa's popularity was such that it became an untouchable for the population, which had declared itself holy. For the Vatican, what better than the beatification and canonization "of this model to revitalize the Church and inspire the faithful especially at a time when the churches are empty and the Roman authority declines," the researchers suggest.
The positive effect of the myth of Mother Teresa Despite its dubious way of caring for the sick glorifying their suffering rather than relieving, Serge Larivee and colleagues point out the positive effect of the myth of Mother Teresa: "If the extraordinary figure of Mother Teresa sent to the imagination collective sparked initiatives of humanitarian authentically engaged with people crushed by poverty, we can only rejoice. "" It is very likely that she has inspired many humanitarian workers whose actions helped relieve the suffering of the truly poor and tackling the causes of poverty and isolation, and without that they are brought acclaimed by the media, says Serge Larivee. Nevertheless, it would have been the media who covered the work of Mother Teresa exercise more rigor, "he concludes.
References on the study Article The dark side of Mother Teresa of Serge Larivee, School of Psychoeducation, University of Montreal, Carole Sénéchal, Faculty of Education, University of Ottawa, and Genevieve Chenard, the School of Psychoeducation, University of Montreal, is available online on the website of Studies in Religion / Religious Studies.
The printed version will be published in March 2013 in issue 42 Studies in Religion / Religious Studies.
This research has not been grants or special funding.
Google Translate ain't so bad anymore. |
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 | reply to urbanriot said by urbanriot:Not sure how old you are but it was a societal conclusion before whatever silly notions you have about the church popped into your head. She's been featured on the covers of every major magazine from Time to National Geographic with plenty of factual accountings of the work she'd done. Let's not forget she was bestowed a Nobel Peace Prize, probably before you were born... the money of which she donated to the poor. Obama has also done both, shall we Canonize him once he dies? 
Why not actually educated yourself on the canonization process and the utterly farcical claims which are being passed off as a miracle in the case of Mother Theresa (woman with treatable cancer is successfully treated at modern hospital) before you start making silly statements. The catholic church and its governing laws aren't controlled by the Nobel prize commission, the media, or popularity. The church however is doing its dandiest to skip through the process just to please (and cash in on) her popularity, the same is true for JPII. |
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 Wolfie00My dog is an elitistPremium join:2005-03-12 kudos:5 | reply to Styvas said by Styvas:It's irrelevant what people like Hitchens and others think about her and her work. What's important is what the Church thinks. No, what's relevant is historical accuracy.
Unless you believe that "historical accuracy" should join "scientific accuracy" on the list of things the church should ignore.
I have no personal opinion about Mother Theresa, although I've heard before about historical accounts of her life having been embellished. I don't know what the truth is. My personal opinion relates to the support of factual accuracy wherever we can find it. -- I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds. I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. For a time I rest in the grace of the world, and I am free. |
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| reply to Thane_Bitter said by Thane_Bitter:Obama has also done both, shall we Canonize him once he dies? ... Obama's not a nun 
said by Thane_Bitter:Why not actually educated yourself on the canonization process lol what. Ironic post. |
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 DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews:
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| reply to Wolfie00 said by Wolfie00:said by Styvas:It's irrelevant what people like Hitchens and others think about her and her work. What's important is what the Church thinks. No, what's relevant is historical accuracy. Unless you believe that "historical accuracy" should join "scientific accuracy" on the list of things the church should ignore. I have no personal opinion about Mother Theresa, although I've heard before about historical accounts of her life having been embellished. I don't know what the truth is. My personal opinion relates to the support of factual accuracy wherever we can find it. And the canonization of a person by the Roman Catholic Church has its own process, unrelated to your or my understanding of "historical accuracy" or "scientific accuracy". Our categories and opinions are irrelevant. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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 Wolfie00My dog is an elitistPremium join:2005-03-12 kudos:5 | said by DKS:And the canonization of a person by the Roman Catholic Church has its own process, unrelated to your or my understanding of "historical accuracy" or "scientific accuracy". Our categories and opinions are irrelevant. I'm sorry, but the argument that "we don't need no steenkin' facts" doesn't fly in a rational world. |
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| reply to TigerLord said by TigerLord:Like the journalist and author Christopher Hitchens, quoted extensively in their analysis, they conclude that the construction of a haloed figure of holiness - which does not hold up when the facts are looked upon - and her beatification were orchestrated by an effective media relations operation." Congrats to you Larivee. Your contribution to society in exposing these terrible illusion of a great (whether fictional or not) figure for people to look up to! Now instead we can aspire to be great people like Berny Madolf, or I don't know. Perhaps Mousier Larivee can portray for us his role model!
Why doesn't this douche-bag spend time debunking media relations operations that are going on right now that affect Public Health. For example lobbying efforts to push drugs have out and out ill effects.
No instead he picks on Saints, whom I don't know if this moron has heard of Saint Nick... and missed the point that Saints have been embellished for millennia. No one gives a rats ass, not in or out of the church. They're Saints because they happen to be the best in a pool of sludge we call humanity. So pointing out they're not all that great just reminds everyone that we're all a bunch of shitheads. |
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