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p2pistoast

@centurytel.net

Copyright Alert System

A source with direct knowledge of the Copyright Alert System (CAS), who asked not to be named, has told the Daily Dot that the five participating Internet service providers (ISPs) will start the controversial program Monday.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTONXs_N-A


»www.dailydot.com/news/copyright-···strikes/

Comcast seems to be the front runner along with att and time warner and verizon. Your speeds may get reduced for repeat offenders.


jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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"A source with direct knowledge"? Sounds like a sold source to me.


HELLFIRE
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reply to p2pistoast

Video reads like a webad for some turnkey solution. I had to run to the bathroom a few times to gag on some
of the phraseology used in the video.

"...initial alerts are merely educational..."
 

"...subscriber must ack reciept of the alert, or watch an educational video... or watch an add'n video..."
 

"...no personal information is shared..."
 

"...independent review system..."
 

"...goal is to support the creative work we love and enjoy..."
 

I call bulls**t to the above. Nuff seid.

Regards

OZO
Premium
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reply to p2pistoast

Glad that not all ISP are so stupid and rush to joint it. For example, read DSLE direct response to the query. Vote with your wallet, if your ISP wants to become a police, working for MAFIAA. That's all you can do.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Curiosity

join:2001-10-01
Dawson Creek, BC

1 recommendation

reply to p2pistoast

The video mentions only people making the content available by P2P. Surely people are sharing by other means as well? Is it only P2P content that can really be monitored? The people downloading the content are not blamed?


unoriginal
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The lawyers seems to go after the uploaders because they are the ones making the content available. But for a user name like "p2pistoast" it really isn't: »blogs.computerworld.com/internet···-strikes

quote:
6. Diehard "casual" pirates could ride out the Six Strikes storm, since nothing more happens after the sixth warning. At the start of WYNCs OntheMedia interview, it was said that Six Strikes is supposed to "stop serial illegal downloaders." Later during the interview, when asked what happens if you get Strike 7, 8 or 9, Lesser said, Once they've been mitigated, they've received several alerts, we're just not going to send them any more alerts. Because they are not the kind of customer that we're going to reach with this program." Nothing more under this program will happen. "For us it is reaching the casual infringer which is a large percentage of peer-to-peer piracy," Lesser stated.


NormanS
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reply to Curiosity

said by Curiosity:

Is it only P2P content that can really be monitored? The people downloading the content are not blamed?

Well, P2P is the only way they can grab the IP addresses of the distributors. Unless the system used for unauthorized distribution exposes the IP addresses of the distributors, the MAFIAA can't identify the distributor's ISP in order to shake them down.

If they could grab a downloader's IP address, they would go after the downloaders. But the only way to get a downloader's IP address is to be on the uploading end.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Kearnstd
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said by NormanS:

said by Curiosity:

Is it only P2P content that can really be monitored? The people downloading the content are not blamed?

Well, P2P is the only way they can grab the IP addresses of the distributors. Unless the system used for unauthorized distribution exposes the IP addresses of the distributors, the MAFIAA can't identify the distributor's ISP in order to shake them down.

If they could grab a downloader's IP address, they would go after the downloaders. But the only way to get a downloader's IP address is to be on the uploading end.

This is something I have wondered about, Would it be illegal still if WB setup a honey pot?

My questioning of this is that if WB put their movies up on a honeypot, in a court case would they risk the defense being able to state "Well they offered it so it was an authorized download." because in retail terms the legal owner offering for download is no different than a shop owner putting stuff in a bin outside with a sign "take as many as you like" and then yelling shoplifting when you do.
--
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NormanS
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said by Kearnstd:

This is something I have wondered about, Would it be illegal still if WB setup a honey pot?

Probably not, else they would be doing it already.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
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HELLFIRE
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reply to Curiosity

@ Curiosity See Profile
Look up "deep packet inspection" on your search engine of choice. Short ver, if it's an IP packet crossing your provider's
network, it could easily be DPI'd.

Regards



NormanS
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said by HELLFIRE:

@ Curiosity See Profile
Look up "deep packet inspection" on your search engine of choice. Short ver, if it's an IP packet crossing your provider's
network, it could easily be DPI'd.

But how would the ISP know which packets are copyright violations? ISP is not monitoring there their network for violations of copyright, they are only responding to third party complaints of violations.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

HELLFIRE
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@NormanS
I couldn't give you a nuts and bolts response to that question as I don't work in the ISP arena.

Nor am I a lawyer so I can't speak on the intent part of it.

I just have enough experience in the field that what they're claiming in the video is possible,
and it rather gets under my skin they're dressing this up as a "we're all one big happy family"
feelgood thing when it genuinely is a Big Brother / 1984 gong show.

Regards



NOYB
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reply to NormanS


Sort of difficult to make something freely available to the public, then turn around and claim infringement.



NormanS
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reply to HELLFIRE

said by HELLFIRE:

@NormanS
I couldn't give you a nuts and bolts response to that question as I don't work in the ISP arena.

Nor am I a lawyer so I can't speak on the intent part of it.

Let's just say that the ISP is capable of DPI, but will only use it to their own ends. Bob can usually offer them regulatory incentives to share (such as AT&T's "listening rooms"), but MAFIAA doesn't have the same leverage as Bob. So TLA snooping happens, but MAFIAA enforcement is done via third party complaints; meaning MAFIAA isn't, can't sniff your packets. Other than by joining torrents.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


kickass69

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Bottom line here is those who already have done so switched to using a VPN with the OpenVPN client, others having read this will learn and end up using one. The rest are either oblivious or just don't care.


slajoh01

join:2005-04-23

1 edit

This is what I dont understand why people are mostly worried about Google watching them what they download from the net.

Well, guess what...Its your ISP that knows everything what you do on the net. Period. And they have control over it, they can shut you down for life banning you forever from using a home internet.

Also, why can they just focus on the Big Fish. I mean seriously.
Lets put it this way, if a torrent site has all the pirated music and movies on that site, there the ones who should pay the price.



NOYB
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Because it's easier to go after the drug addict than the dealer, after consumer rather than big business, after Martha Stewart rather than Bernie Madoff with your money, or Enron. And the list goes on.

Then they can hold up those little fishies as examples to pretend they are doing their job to prevent fraud etc. to foster a safe and fair market.

Just like SEC = Scam Enabling Commission.
So too is this CAS a scam. Con Artists Scam.

--
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reply to p2pistoast

i am concerned about false accusations by the third-parties who are contracted to discover possible copyright violations..

then you have to pay a $35.00 fee to contest a false accusation of piracy..

in my opinion, the ISP should be required to examine evidence of piracy before taking any action.. if someone is accused of dowloading copyrighted material which cannot legally be downloaded, i think the ISP should examine the material in question to make sure that it is indeed something that cannot legally be downloaded rather than relying solely on the accusations of the third-parties who are making them..


OZO
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said by redwolfe_98:

in my opinion, the ISP should be required to examine evidence of piracy before taking any action..

I think it's not their job to examine customer's traffic in search for a piracy. It requires a lot of additional resources and slows down traffic. And I, as a customer, don't want to pay for that.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Blackbird
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reply to redwolfe_98

said by redwolfe_98:

i am concerned about false accusations by the third-parties who are contracted to discover possible copyright violations.. then you have to pay a $35.00 fee to contest a false accusation of piracy.. ... relying solely on the accusations of the third-parties who are making them..

The whole process is upside down. Based on mere accusation, we now have presumption of guilt and the necessity of the accused paying a fee to obtain the privilege of proving his innocence. That kind of nonsense is not going to work out well...
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


NormanS
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said by Blackbird:

The whole process is upside down. Based on mere accusation, we now have presumption of guilt and the necessity of the accused paying a fee to obtain the privilege of proving his innocence. That kind of nonsense is not going to work out well...

While I agree in principle, this is not about criminal complaints, so "guilt/innocence" is not an issue. It is an issue between monied interests; but the end user has no leverage in this issue.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Jessica19

join:2012-08-24

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reply to p2pistoast

What concerns me most is the concept behind it: guilty until proven innocent. Incorrectly identified users will need to spend money to clear their names…
CAS is not a law, it doesn't stop RIAA or MPAA from taking offenders to court, instead it uses ISPs to punish copyright violations, which is against an ISPs own business interest.

you could potentially use a VPN to get around this, but you will need to choose a VPN which doesn't record your IP address – no log VPN.

Suddenly, Kim dotcoms new mega seems promising since everything will be encrypted.



Blackbird
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reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

said by Blackbird:

The whole process is upside down. Based on mere accusation, we now have presumption of guilt and the necessity of the accused paying a fee to obtain the privilege of proving his innocence. That kind of nonsense is not going to work out well...

While I agree in principle, this is not about criminal complaints, so "guilt/innocence" is not an issue. It is an issue between monied interests; but the end user has no leverage in this issue.

When you are accused of some infraction, whether you are guilty or innocent is indeed involved as an "issue," guilt being whether you really committed the infraction. This becomes especially important if some kind of 3rd-party sanction, even a system of mere "warnings", is involved. Sanctions always include creating lingering records and involve challenges against the accused's reputation. And sanctions (especially in the oft unreal world of copyright interests and power-games) can and often do evolve in intensity, becoming harsher over time.
quote:
... While it doesn't require ISPs to cut off Internet access to repeat pirates—as is the case in France and New Zealand—it will issue escalating punishments to suspected pirates, severely reducing their connection speeds after five or six offenses. ...
Note that the term is "suspected pirates"... in layman's terms that means somebody who merely stands accused, yet tangible punishment is to be meted out to a suspect by some 3rd party (who is neither the accuser nor accused). And in Western civilization and customs of common law, that process is upside down.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


NormanS
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said by Blackbird:

said by NormanS:

said by Blackbird:

The whole process is upside down. Based on mere accusation, we now have presumption of guilt and the necessity of the accused paying a fee to obtain the privilege of proving his innocence. That kind of nonsense is not going to work out well...

While I agree in principle, this is not about criminal complaints, so "guilt/innocence" is not an issue. It is an issue between monied interests; but the end user has no leverage in this issue.

When you are accused of some infraction, whether you are guilty or innocent is indeed involved as an "issue," guilt being whether you really committed the infraction.

"Infraction", as a violation of a law, damned well is a matter of criminal jurisprudence. In California, a speeding citation is considered an, "infraction". Do you know the process (may not be the same in Indiana, but ...)? Officer issues the ticket. Driver has the option to post bail in lieu of appearance, or go before the judge. Either way, the result is a plea; post bail, the judge declares the driver, "Guilty". Otherwise, the driver can show up, enter a "Not Guilty" plea, and be arraigned for trial.

This becomes especially important if some kind of 3rd-party sanction, even a system of mere "warnings", is involved.

Third parties can't make determination of, "Guilt". They can make allegations of criminal conduct, even make "citizen's arrests"; but guilt is determined by a judge in a court of law.

Sanctions always include creating lingering records and involve challenges against the accused's reputation. And sanctions (especially in the oft unreal world of copyright interests and power-games) can and often do evolve in intensity, becoming harsher over time.

Sanctions outside of the criminal justice justice system are awards of damages against respondents in favor of complainants. Unless the civil justice system is bypassed; as it is with CAS/Six Strikes. Then it is just summary punishment without due process.

quote:
... While it doesn't require ISPs to cut off Internet access to repeat pirates—as is the case in France and New Zealand—it will issue escalating punishments to suspected pirates, severely reducing their connection speeds after five or six offenses. ...
Note that the term is "suspected pirates"... in layman's terms that means somebody who merely stands accused, yet tangible punishment is to be meted out to a suspect by some 3rd party (who is neither the accuser nor accused). And in Western civilization and customs of common law, that process is upside down.

It is not just upside down, neither is it inside out. It is pure, oppressive barbarism.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Blackbird
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said by NormanS:

"Infraction", as a violation of a law, damned well is a matter of criminal jurisprudence. ... Third parties can't make determination of, "Guilt". They can make allegations of criminal conduct, even make "citizen's arrests"; but guilt is determined by a judge in a court of law.
...
It is not just upside down, neither is it inside out. It is pure, oppressive barbarism.

It appears we mean the same thing at root. Whereas you refer to guilt in a largely judicial sense, I've been referring to guilt in a more general dictionary sense, where one can be guilty of some infraction or transgression whether or not that involves a codified law. When it comes to punishment, common custom in civilized cultures is to require that guilt for whatever infraction be reasonably established before punishment can be administered. If a child 'lies' to a parent, normally the parent makes sure the lie really occurred before punishment is meted out (even if punishment is delivered through a 3rd party: "wait until your Father gets home"). In the case where "law" is involved, guilt is established in a court setting before sanctions are imposed. The principle remains the same, however: innocent (though perhaps suspect) until shown to be guilty, then punishment occurs. And indeed, with CAS, this principle is violated... which constitutes, as you well put it, oppressive barbarism.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville