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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to nunya

Re: Electric Bill

With a finished basement? I'm up over 3k square feet. Four bedrooms, two living rooms.

I did some work with my well pump and I know it's not running unless there's some usage. Sounds like I really have to curb my usage.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK



jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to Hall

said by Hall:

The revolutions can be translated / converted to kw/h, can't it ?

Yes it can, and it's simple. For the calculation below let's assume the meter has a Kh factor of 7.2, this represents the number of watthours per revolution ( look on the meter faceplate and there are a bunch of numbers printed by the mfr: class, voltage, TA, and Kh ) You only need to concern yourself with the Kh number.

So, take the Kh 7.2 (multiply) X 3600 (the number of seconds in one hour) and divide by the number of seconds for one revolution to calculate the load.

7.2 X 3600 / 13 seconds = 1993.84 watts
7.2 X 3600 / 19 seconds = 1364.21 watts

For heavy loads where the disc is spinning really fast, measure multiple revolutions and multiply the Kh by the number of revolutions used.

So if you used five revolutions it's 5 x 7.2 x 3600 / (seconds)
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
reply to Archivis

said by Archivis:

... average of 169 kWh/day.

Maybe 144kWh/24h = 6kW is in the ball park for heating an old home during a "colder than normal" month?


aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
reply to Hall

said by Hall:

If it's any consolation, at least you don't have a natural gas bill...

I have a natural gas bill and its the only one I look forward to getting since I know its never more than about $30...
--
.:|:. aztec being aztec...™


pferrie3

join:2005-01-27
Boston, MA
reply to Archivis

when you "turn the heat on" are you heating the whole house or just the room your in... that will also make a big diff



toby
Troy Mcclure

join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA
reply to Archivis

said by Archivis:

said by Bob4:

Don't forget the guy here who had a space heater he didn't know about running 24/7.

Just a bunch of baseboards everywhere

You need to get more efficient base board heaters.
This thread is funny, so much info lacking from the OP.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
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·Embarq Now Centu..
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reply to Archivis

Check with the power company and find out if they can do a home energy audit. Some companies will do one at no cost to you. One of my relatives had a home energy audit on an older home. The energy audit was performed using a thermal imaging camera.

Their unfinished basement walls were uninsulated. It was recommended that they insulate the basement walls to an R19 value. They also learned that the attic insulation was originally R19 but over the years had compacted to about an R11 value. The auditor recommended that they add attic insulation to an value of R30 or higher. At the time there was a federal and/or state program where part of the cost to upgrade insulation was paid for through energy conservation rebates.

I believe that they saved about 20% on their annual energy cost with the insulation upgrade. They later replaced their hot air furnace and central air conditioner with a high efficiency unit, which further reduced energy consumption. Part of the cost was offset by energy conservation rebates.



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
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reply to Archivis

I'd say you're about right on for 3000 SF.
As I mentioned earlier, electric heat just sucks butt holes. Really, any appliance that uses electricity to make heat cannot be made any more efficient (Ranges, WH, Dryer, Furnace, Baseboard, etc...). Electricity is very inefficient way of moving energy, but it is 100% efficient at it's point of use.

There are some things you can do:
1) Turn down the heat. It sounds like you already have it pretty low, so this suggestion probably won't help.
2) Insulate if needed. Seal cracks.
3) Consider having a forced air system installed with a heat pump or gas heat (if available).
4) ~Or~ Consider getting split ductless systems with heat pumps installed.

The heat pump water heaters get their efficiency by offloading the work onto the heating system. Unless you are in a Southern climate or the WH is outdoors, they don't make much sense.

You can put an insulation blanket on your existing electric WH, but I've heard that they really don't help with standby losses all that much.

I've never understood closing off sections of the house. It's like saying you are only going to pee in one corner of the pool, so the rest should be fine.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to pferrie3

said by pferrie3:

when you "turn the heat on" are you heating the whole house or just the room your in... that will also make a big diff

I had each of the baseboards at a minimum. I'm probably to reevaluate that.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to toby

said by toby:

You need to get more efficient base board heaters.
This thread is funny, so much info lacking from the OP.

I'm supplying as much info as I can. I'm not sure what I'm lacking.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

I've never understood closing off sections of the house. It's like saying you are only going to pee in one corner of the pool, so the rest should be fine.

I was thinking that with a large house, I would benefit from not heating the whole house all day. Is this not correct?
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2

I've no experience with electric (baseboard) heat, but if you turn it off in a room (during the day, while you're gone 4-8 hours), how long does it take to make it comfortable ?

I'm not sure if turning the heat off entirely but leaving doors open would allow enough heat from the heated rooms that are on would help.


Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
reply to Archivis

A nigh 12-year member and yet the concept of multi-quoting remains a mystery.


nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to Archivis

said by Archivis:

The room would be hotter, wouldn't it?

Mom is elderly and liked warmth. Yes it was warmer bit depends on size of room and how much extra is is running plus is it a well used room. Just an idea anyways.


AnonEEMouse

@bhn.net
reply to Oedipus

Anyone got a link to the thread about the heater element running 24/7? would love to read it.


nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to Archivis

How well is the basement really insulated and the house.



JustBurnt

@rr.com
reply to Majestik

said by Majestik:

said by mityfowl:

Also what do you consider through the roof?

Indeed.
For me a $60 electric bill is through the roof in my home.

A $60 bill is about average for me, it may go up a bit in the summer if it gets really hot outside.

A $600 bill would result in a 911 call.


JustBurnt

@rr.com
reply to Hall

said by Hall:

If it's any consolation, at least you don't have a natural gas bill...

But a NG bill shouldn't be more than $200 or 300 for a house that size.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
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·Embarq Now Centu..
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reply to Archivis

You have not mentioned what fuel sources are available. Natural Gas is one of the best fuels for space and water heating. Let us know what fuel sources you have available.

In the case of Natural Gas, some suppliers will offer financial incentives to convert. A friend of mine's father lived along a road where the gas company installed a new line to supply a central school, further down the road. They replaced the gun type oil burner in his relatively new hot air furnace, with a gun type gas burner and the electric water heater with a gas water heater at no cost to him. They also ran a black pipe gas line to the kitchen to allow my friends father to install a gas stove when their relatively new electric stove wore out. The gas company also gave them a rebate that partially offset the cost of replacing their electric dryer with a gas dryer.

It is very important to consider how long you will live in the home and amount of time to payback improvements that you make to reduce energy costs. Most energy auditors have forms to calculate the payback interval for any improvements you make at today's energy cost.



Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19

I do not have Natural Gas available in my area. Apparently, there were petitions and attempts to convert the neighborhood at one point (or even twice), but there weren't enough people willing to sign up for it.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
reply to Archivis

said by Archivis:

I did some work with my well pump and I know it's not running unless there's some usage. Sounds like I really have to curb my usage.

You should accept that maybe 75% of those 5000+ kWh were burned up in your baseboard heaters and water heater.

These steps will immediately lower your energy consumption:

1. Use low speed ceiling fans to move the hot air near ceilings down towards people.

2. Turn down the water temp, check for hot water leaks, and maybe consider buying a better thermal blanket.

3. You could replace some of the baseboard heaters with infrared heaters. They use a lot less power to give people/pets the exact same fuzzy warm feeling.

4. Keep dryer free of lint and use a flex metal duct connected to plastic exhaust vent. That way you use a bit less power and some of the heat stays in the basement.

5. Bake less ; boil less ; stir-fry more.


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to Archivis

I lived in an all electric house with well pump for 13 years. The heated area was only in the 1200 sq/ft range and 13 years ago I could get close to a $400 bill. I would suggest shutting doors to any rooms without water running through them or the attached walls and turning off the heat unless you are using the room. This can save a fair amount of money.

Your well pump should not run all the time when you are running water. If this is happening then you have a problem. Somewhere in your water system should be a pressure tank that will minimize how often the well pump cycles. These tanks go bad and lose pressure. Some have a sealed bladder and some of the older ones you fill up with air when they run low. Those will have a valve on them that looks like a tire fill valve. The tanks don't last very long and neither will your very expensive well pump if it is constantly working when you demand water. If you are taking a shower, you should only hear your pump kick in a few times during the shower.



J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to Archivis

That sucks because your bill is high because of the baseboard heating. I had it once....once. It was a rental (duplex) and about $400/month in the winter. (otherwise about $50 or so in spring/fall and $120 in the summer)

Insulation should be checked out as well.

You might consider converted to oil or propane if you can't get NG.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein



Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to lutful

Thanks for the advice. I did take apart the dryer setup over the weekend and it looks like those things are in place. The hot water heater is new and I have a catch pan and it's dry. I'll just try and keep my consumption lower.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK



Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to J E F F

said by J E F F:

You might consider converted to oil or propane if you can't get NG.

I'll certainly be checking into propane.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


spinn

@tmodns.net
reply to Archivis

you had a good idea. have someomr switch off eachj breaker while you watch the spin. know which breakers are for the water heater n heaters. you are looking fir something. thats on all the time when it shouldnt be

another way to do that is to switch off ALL the subbreakers at once then switcj tjem on again one at a time then off while watching the spin

check too that they read the meter. sometimrs they just use tje same month of the prior year and rebill that



nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI
Reviews:
·Comcast
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reply to Archivis

said by Archivis:

said by IowaCowboy:

If your bill is that high, you might want to see if you qualify for any discounts/assistance. You could also look into budget billing where they average out a year's worth of bills into equal installments. If you own the house, you could look into converting to a cheaper source of heating or upgrading appliances. If you rent, either talk to the landlord about upgrading appliances or put in your 30 days notice that you are moving.

I just moved in here under a home purchase, not a rental. I'm not going to quality for anything under my income.

One last note, if the refrigerator is more than 10 years old, replace it. An old refrigerator will shoot an electric bill through the roof.

Let me try shutting that off real quick.

An old refrigerator is fine, its once the inside temperatures of the house start rising in summer where those older fridges really suck up power. My fridge is older and it uses about 75 kwh in the colder months, it can use up to 200 when temps get up to 76 or higher in the house in summer.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
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1 edit
reply to Archivis

If you choose propane, buy the largest tank you can afford so you can use any local supplier otherwise you are married to the supplier that you are leasing your tank from.

Edit: If you own your tank you can purchase propane when prices are lowest in your area. If you know anyone in your area that uses propane ask them what they are paying per gallon. Propane prices can vary dramatically depending on your location.

Check out this website, members compare propane prices:

»www.checkpropaneprices.com/

Check out fuel oil with a local supplier, there is some special exemption when installing underground fuel tanks if the purpose is home heating.


Zach1
Premium
join:2006-11-26
NW Minnesota

1 recommendation

reply to Archivis

The page linked below show the heat content of various heat sources. Locally, as I type this, electric resistance heat is less expensive than a propane 94% efficient furnace.

Local winter electric rate $0.09/Kwh all taxes, fees, unfees, surcharges, taxes on the surcharges, and taxes on the taxes on the unfees included.

$2.55 per gallon of propane delivered (100 gallon minimum - customer owned tank)

91300 btu/gal * 0.94 = 85822 usable btu/gal
1 Kwh of electricity = 3413 btu/hr
85822/3413 = 25.15 Kwh per gallon of propane

Soooo....

85,822 Btu runs $2.55 using propane or $2.26 using electric resistance (baseboard, strip heaters, etc)

From the sounds of your situation, I'm thinking a heatpump with propane backup.

Of course, since fuel prices and electric rates seem to vary quite drastically from region to region YMMV!

»www.engineeringtoolbox.com/energ···868.html
--
Zach



Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to Archivis

Thanks a lot, everyone. I need to scramble to build up my cash flow again. I pumped a lot into this place.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK