Topic 'Electric Bill' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Electric Bill

Fri, 01 Mar 2013 13:26:48 EDT

AVD posted :

The point that the zone control manufacturer was making was that the zone control system allowed the architect to specify one 60,000 BTU central AC rather than three smaller central AC's to meet the architect's requirements. I should have mentioned that I saw the demonstration system before the 2007 recession. I am sure that two additional smaller central AC systems cost many $$$. The other point that was made was lower maintenance cost of only one system.

also single point of failure.
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Re: Electric Bill

Fri, 01 Mar 2013 13:06:58 EDT

Mr Matt posted : The point that the zone control manufacturer was making was that the zone control system allowed the architect to specify one 60,000 BTU central AC rather than three smaller central AC's to meet the architect's requirements. I should have mentioned that I saw the demonstration system before the 2007 recession. I am sure that two additional smaller central AC systems cost many $$$. The other point that was made was lower maintenance cost of only one system.

Re: Electric Bill

Fri, 01 Mar 2013 10:44:00 EDT

AVD posted : It is also much warmer now, so you should be seeing a reduction.

Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:21:44 EDT

Archivis posted : We've cut our usage in half by shutting stuff down. The electric company gives us readouts on a 2-day delay. We're already seeing our usage cut in half.
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Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:14:38 EDT

aurgathor posted :

said by Mr Matt:

The problem of setting up a home zone control system is simple with a series of dampers and a zone control board as shown on this website:

Never heard of them before, but I guess in this case it's much easier to set up zones than I thought. Although since I don't see prices on their website, that leads me to believe that their system may be rather expensive.

Did they mention prices in that home show?
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Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:05:38 EDT

aurgathor posted :

said by Archivis:

My wife called. If I recall correctly, the previous owner's highest month was in the mid 200's.

Maybe the previous owner practiced what I would call is 'selective heating'.

I have 3 rooms, all with with electric heat, and unless I have visitors, I stay in, and heat only the smallest one, and occasionally the bathroom when I shave or take a shower.
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Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:56:16 EDT

Archivis posted : My wife called. If I recall correctly, the previous owner's highest month was in the mid 200's.

Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:46:18 EDT

TomS posted : >>> "When we bought the home, the previous resident said her average bill was in the upper $100's. I won't be able to call the electric company until Monday." <<<

Sorry if I missed it, but what did PPL say? Were you able to obtain previous usage info?

Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:17:58 EDT

Mr Matt posted : The problem of setting up a home zone control system is simple with a series of dampers and a zone control board as shown on this website:

»xcizoning.com/

I saw a zone control system as is described demonstrated at a home show. The demonstration system used a 60,000BTU central AC where three separate AC unit would have been required to meet the requirements of the architect. The system allows the temperature of areas or individual rooms to be controlled with dampers controlling the air flow to the controlled areas. A thermostat is installed in each climate controlled room or area.

Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:55:31 EDT

aurgathor posted :

said by Archivis:

said by aurgathor:

The next step should be (if you not already have) installing programmable thermostat(s). This will cost you some money, but it shouldn't be too bad.

We thought about it, but is it worth it if we're going to switch over to a heat pump?

It will still worth to have even with a central heat pump, although controlling individual areas will be much harder. If you were to opt for separate heat pumps (looks like you won't though) then they would be must haves.

I'm looking into the insulation now. Our windows seem to be pretty modern. They're Anderson windows. Not sure how that holds up.

Obviously, before doing any of these you need to examine what you have, how good they are, and how much better you can make it at what cost.

Adding an extra layer to the attic is usually fairly straightforward and doesn't involve a whole lot. Adding extra insulation to the walls will usually be much more of a hassle.
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Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:07:04 EDT

Antonica posted : Need to confirm with PPL but the home warranty guy came out and replaced the refriderator parts that went bad. After talking wtih the electrian that came out today too to check on the baseboard heaters to make sure they were working ok, he seemed to think that it was most likely a combination of the fridge constantly trying to start up and the dryer having to run more times than normal that caused the high pull of electricity. He tested the dryer and the one heating element is out so that causes the loads to almost need to be dried twice to get dry.
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Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:48:37 EDT

Archivis posted :

said by aurgathor:

In the short term, you should turn them down, or completely off in areas not occupied, and then turn them back only when someone is in that area. So when you go to bed, turn down the heat in everywhere except the bedrooms you sleep in. That may be a bit of a pain doing manually (I'm assuming the controls are on the baseboard heaters) but probably not as much pain as paying an oversized electric bill. If you already have a programmable thermostat, just program it appropriately. This doesn't cost you any money.

This is exactly what we've been doing since we started this thread. I should go check my electric online, but I guess PPL Electric is down for maintenance for a few hours.

The next step should be (if you not already have) installing programmable thermostat(s). This will cost you some money, but it shouldn't be too bad.

We thought about it, but is it worth it if we're going to switch over to a heat pump?

In the long term, you may want to switch over to heat pumps like these: »www.grainger.com/Grainger/ductle···t=subset and perhaps add some extra insulation and replace your windows with better ones.

I'm looking into the insulation now. Our windows seem to be pretty modern. They're Anderson windows. Not sure how that holds up. We have an outdoor AC unit. I could replace it with a heat pump, do little duct work and have a heat pump unit.
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Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:37:11 EDT

ropeguru posted :

said by AVD:

said by Jim:

said by Hall:

A "well guy" ? I didn't know there were people who were that specialized. I don't mean that as an insult either -- I live in the city, always have, and have no exposure to well water.

Our septic guy will not touch our well or inside plumbing. Our well guy will not touch our septic system nor will he do indoor plumbing beyond the pressure tank. I guess there is enough work without overlap although I'm sure it happens.

might be legal or insurance issues too.

In Virginia the well folks have to be licensed by the State Health Department. So it is different.

Re: Electric Bill

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:34:21 EDT

aurgathor posted : I think your main issue is the electric baseboard heaters.

In the short term, you should turn them down, or completely off in areas not occupied, and then turn them back only when someone is in that area. So when you go to bed, turn down the heat in everywhere except the bedrooms you sleep in. That may be a bit of a pain doing manually (I'm assuming the controls are on the baseboard heaters) but probably not as much pain as paying an oversized electric bill. If you already have a programmable thermostat, just program it appropriately. This doesn't cost you any money.

The next step should be (if you not already have) installing programmable thermostat(s). This will cost you some money, but it shouldn't be too bad.

In the long term, you may want to switch over to heat pumps like these: »www.grainger.com/Grainger/ductle···t=subset and perhaps add some extra insulation and replace your windows with better ones.

As for insulation, I had good luck putting 1" .. 1.5" polyisocyanurate foam on the inside walls/ceilings, and then adding a layer of drywall on top of it, but depending on your house, other solutions may be more suitable and better.

The majority of heat pumps are in the $800 .. $3000 range, so they are not cheap, but they should pay off over time. Likewise, adding additional insulation/windows replacement may be a costly hassle initially, but they should pay off in the long run.
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Re: Electric Bill

Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:38:36 EDT

hdman posted : The previous owner MAY have been paying an annualized sum broken across every month. I think they call that the "budget" program at my utility. Also, you may want to look into whether your provider has a "time-of-use" billing. I have electric water heat, dryer, appliances, and I pay a premium between 7am and 7pm, but I pay a small fraction per kwh from 7pm to 7am. So....I put in a highly rated 80 gall water heater, and ONLY heat the water during the low cost times. A good electric water heater will only lose 1% of its energy per hour. Then we don't dry clothes until after 7pm.

I would also look at your insulation, windows, etc. Borrow a thermal gun and check around for air leaks. Also, look at your roof. If there is snow on it, thats good. If it melts off, that means your heat is going thru the roof.

If you have a fireplace, only use it if it gets its combustion air from OUTSIDE. If it uses the inside air, dont use it at all.

Good luck
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Re: Electric Bill

Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:39:46 EDT

AVD posted :

said by Jim:

said by Hall:

A "well guy" ? I didn't know there were people who were that specialized. I don't mean that as an insult either -- I live in the city, always have, and have no exposure to well water.

might be legal or insurance issues too.
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Re: Electric Bill

Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:55:14 EDT

Draiman posted :

said by Hall:

A "well guy" ? I didn't know there were people who were that specialized. I don't mean that as an insult either -- I live in the city, always have, and have no exposure to well water.

You need specialized equipment to dig down 500+ feet for a well so of course there is people who only do wells. A standard plumber might handle well equipment but not the well itself.
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Re: Electric Bill

Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:52:48 EDT

Jim posted :

said by Hall:

A "well guy" ? I didn't know there were people who were that specialized. I don't mean that as an insult either -- I live in the city, always have, and have no exposure to well water.

Re: Electric Bill

Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:45:54 EDT

Hall posted : A "well guy" ? I didn't know there were people who were that specialized. I don't mean that as an insult either -- I live in the city, always have, and have no exposure to well water.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:40:04 EDT

robbin posted :

said by Hall:

Wouldn't that depend on where a plumber is based ? I mean, a plumber "in the city", you're right, may know little about wells, sump pumps, etc, but a plumber who is in more rural areas definitely could.

It's not so much whether have have the knowledge as it is if they are equipped to work on them. A well guy probably has most all necessary repair parts on his truck which makes the job quicker, more efficient, and therefore probably cheaper.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:31:17 EDT

scooper posted : +1 - I live in a rural county, where wells are common (even though the county has put in a waterlines past most houses) - plumbers here know about wells as well as the usual plumbing issues. I would imagine that a plumber that works mostly in Raleigh would not be as familar with well problems.

BTW - my pressure tank has a bladder for the water, and you have to manually maintain the air with a tire like valve. In my case, when the tank is empty - you want to set the empty tank pressure to 2 PSI below the point where your switch turns the pump on, and the tank needs to be large enough that the pump runs for at least 1 full minute before shutoff.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:13:00 EDT

Mr Matt posted : Sounds like you have a bad air volume control. My parents submersible pumps pressure tank had a valve (air volume control) about 2/3 of the way up from the bottom of the tank. Every so often the air volume control would begin hissing. The way the system worked there was a check valve at the tank that prevented back flow when the pump was not running. The check valve also included a vent valve on the well side of the check valve to allow the water in the line between the pressure tank and the well to drain back into the well to keep it from freezing in cold weather. Whenever the pump started the air in the line was injected into the pressure tank as well as the water pumped in. The air helped maintain pressure in the system. When the water in the tank dropped below the float valve the air volume control released excessive air in the tank. Whenever the air volume control failed closed they experienced the same problem you are experiencing, air coming out of the faucets. The plumber replaced the air volume control to fix the problem.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:44:05 EDT

Hall posted : Wouldn't that depend on where a plumber is based ? I mean, a plumber "in the city", you're right, may know little about wells, sump pumps, etc, but a plumber who is in more rural areas definitely could.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:28:03 EDT

robbin posted : I wouldn't call a plumber unless you have other plumbing problems. Most of them don't have experience with wells.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:03:45 EDT

Antonica posted : @robbin - This is some-what related as it was brought up by another member that the well pump could be part of the electrical issue if it was constantly running. This is my thread as well as Archivis is my husband, so all this is in reference to the same house.

The clicking noise that "I" have noticed is only when water is being used (toilet flushing, etc). I haven't heard it run other times so I assume again, the well pump is not running constantly. As for the air, we've tried to bleed the pipes for 15 minutes with every faucet turned on, still does the spitting. I will take robbins advice and that can be another thread or just dropped all together for now until the plumber comes out, but just wanted to clarify that I don't believe the well pump is constantly running. (Plumber will be asked to check that too).
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Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:33:45 EDT

robbin posted : Why don't you start a new thread regarding your water pressure issues. This doesn't have anything to do with the current topic and many of us who can help won't see it buried in this thread. When you do, post some pics -- the blue tank and connected plumbing and anything else that you know of which is part of your well.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:28:08 EDT

tschmidt posted : The clicking at the pressure tank is probably the pump pressure switch turning pump on and off in response to water use. There should be a pressure gauge that you can watch to confirm pressure switch operation. One caution is that it might be plugged up so will not read properly.

If no one is using water and the pump is constantly cycling you have a leak either in the house or perhaps the check valve in the pump.

Since you have already dealt with the aerators spitting is probably air in the system. That normally only occurs if water is turned off and the system drained or partially drained. We have a submersible pump so pretty much impossible for air to get into the system. I'm not familiar with jet pumps.

Check if the pump is cycling unnecessarily. That indicates a leak, incorrect bladder pressure in the pressure tank or a waterlogged pressure tank. None of these problems explain air in the system - but needs to be taken care or right away.

Did the spitting just start? You can try turning on each faucet for a while to try and get the air out of the system. If that does not resolve the issue my guess is you have a jet pump and somehow air is getting into the system. I'll leave that to the plumbings professionals that frequent this forum.

/tom

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:52:14 EDT

Antonica posted : It's spitting all the time, every faucet (and we cleaned out the aerators in most of the faucets because they had this brown/rust like grime on them). There is a water softener system that was purchased 2 years ago and installed (Culligan). The Blue tank we're told is the well tank so I'm assuming its the well pressure tank. It's shorter and fat. Clicking noise, like a couple times in a row, then some pauses, then can click a few more times. No rhythm or anything to the clicking noise.
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Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:34:25 EDT

Jim posted : Water 'spitting' out of faucets could just be dirty aerators at the faucets. On the other hand, it could be more serious. Does it stop eventually or is it all the time the faucet is on? As far as the blue tank, do you know if it is part of a filter/softener system or if it's the well pressure tank? Is it tall and thin (filter/softener) or short and relatively large around (pressure tank)? What noise?

I apologize if I disappear. The weather is deteriorating rapidly here and I'm probably going to head home. It's a haul.
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Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:24:23 EDT

Antonica posted : and the blue tank in the basement makes noise :P

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:24:11 EDT

Antonica posted : I don't know anything about the well pump except it was hit by lightning a few years ago and replaced with a newer pump.

Regardless of what faucet you turn on, they all have the water spitting out of them, instead of flowing.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:54:21 EDT

Jim posted : Arch mentioned earlier that the pump only ran when there was demand. Do you know if it is a deep or shallow well? Is it a jet or submersible pump? Can you be a little more specific as far as what you mean by 'water pressure issues'?
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Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:20:18 EDT

Antonica posted :

said by jp16:

2nd the shutting off each circuit at a time. My parents have a well and pump. One month their bill was huge. The disk on the meter was spinning real fast. After shutting off the pump it all but stopped. Turned out that a joint in the pvc pipe broke and the pump could not satisfy the pressure requirement and ran constantly.

I'll try to make sure he does this tonight. I only bring it up because we've been having water pressure issues since we moved in, that weren't there before (when we first saw the house and during the house inspection by a certified inspector).
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Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:37:41 EDT

cdru posted :

said by AVD:

if his single electric meter has a spinning disk, it probably is not a time-of-use rate.

Doh. Missed that part. Probably doesn't apply here then in that case, but for others it still might.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:36:20 EDT

AVD posted : if his single electric meter has a spinning disk, it probably is not a time-of-use rate.
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Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:34:56 EDT

cdru posted :

said by AVD:

Consider using a mattress heating pad for each bed and keeping the rooms cold until wake up time.

Check local rates and for time-of-use metering. The whole does-temperature-setback-save-you-money debate has been beaten to death here, but if the waking hours are not considered an off-peak rate, you may be losing a lot of the savings from doing the setback just during the recovery period.

Re: Electric Bill

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:05:33 EDT

AVD posted : Consider using a mattress heating pad for each bed and keeping the rooms cold until wake up time.
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Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:52:23 EDT

jp16 posted : 2nd the shutting off each circuit at a time. My parents have a well and pump. One month their bill was huge. The disk on the meter was spinning real fast. After shutting off the pump it all but stopped. Turned out that a joint in the pvc pipe broke and the pump could not satisfy the pressure requirement and ran constantly.

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:23:51 EDT

anon posted :

said by Archivis:

I'm looking at $650 for an electric bill.

I'm in the northeast and use Oil heat.

While my electric bill was just $100, my heating oil is running about $600 a month during this winter....

And my medium-size one-floor house is pretty well insulated, double windows, thermostat set at 65-68, etc.

So it's adding up to the same thing. :(

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:03:18 EDT

Mr Matt posted : Check this video on YouTube showing a thermal energy audit:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTggTbkA8MA

This video is more complete:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXPXE0qsmjg

Here is a demonstration of what was learned using a thermal imaging camera:

»www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en···GHU&NR=1

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:54:28 EDT

Antonica posted : Our state website has information on programs and other things that have been suggested here. Thank you. I'll continue to follow up with them to see what else we can do.

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 11:41:22 EDT

Mr Matt posted : Check with your states Public Service Commission. Find out what the rules are regarding charging for home energy audits. You will find the toll free number of the PSC in the front of your telephone directory or the Pennsylvania State website. The reason the local power company serving my home, offered to pay for part of the radiant barrier installation, was at the time the EPA was offering financial incentive to conserve energy.

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:51:23 EDT

Draiman posted : One way to figure out where all your power is going is a TED.
»www.theenergydetective.com/

You can calculate the power cost per circuit then turn stuff off on that circuit and see how much each item costs to run. You can enter your kWh cost into the unit and see how much electricity you've spend for the month and on a daily basis. One great way to save money is to add more insulation to the house.
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Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:39:40 EDT

jack b posted : Some states have legislation mandating "free" energy audits. In those cases they're not actually altogether free, utility ratepayers cover the associated costs through a small billing line energy conservation/ renewable energy surcharge that's tacked on.

Call your public utilities commission to see what is available to you.
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Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:11:59 EDT
Antonica posted : I contacted the electric company, and they said a Home Energy Audit would be $350-$650, with them providing a $250 rebate if we choose one of their vendors.

Where do you get free audits?

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:57:31 EDT
Mr Matt posted : In most homes I purchased I took advantage of a free home energy audit. Most of the reports listed the improvements that I could make, the budgetary cost and the payback period. You can use that information to determine whether or not to make any or all of the recommended improvements. One of the best investments unless your home is already well insulated is additional insulation. This is the best time to do a thermal camera inspection. It will show the areas where you are losing the most heat.

In my current home, which has an energy star rating, I asked the power company for anything I could do to reduce energy consumption. They had already done energy audits on other homes in my neighborhood. Without inspecting my home they recommended that I add a radiant barrier and offered to pay 50% of the cost through a government program.

I added the radiant barrier and lowered my electric bill from 20% to 25% the five summer months. The best way to describe the results of adding a radiant barrier is adding to the comfort level by making it seem like the sky is overcast and raining every day even when the sky is clear and the roof is being struck by direct sunlight. It was like I added another 12,000 BTU capacity to each central air conditioner. In your area additional insulation might do the same thing.

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 05:47:27 EDT
anon posted : .
Power Calcul···xlsx.zip 7,424 bytes

Re: Electric Bill

Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:37:51 EDT
warwick posted : Sheesh you guys have it good. :)

Here is a power analysis I recently did for a client.
(Newly installed pv system)
This is without the r.o system on :hmm:

**************************************************

Assumptions:

6 Hours of usable sunlight.
Average Monthly kwh usage of 7869 kwh

PV Output of 5652 Watts

Solar Produced kwh per day 39.024
Solar Produced kwh per month 1170.72
Cost Savings at 0.4135 kwh 484.09272 -13.29%
Yearly savings $5809.11264

Important Values.

Average kwh per month: 8,800
Average kwh per day: 293.3333333
Watts consumed per hour: 7040

Average Costs per month: $3,640
Average cost per kwh: $0.41

Re: Electric Bill

Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:13:33 EDT
cowboyro posted : As said before, your usage is normal.
I have a 2350 sqft house, average insulation and I use about 2300kWh/month with heat pumps - which on average use 35-40% of what resistive heat uses for the same amount of heat. Also oil-fired HWH here, so I'm not using electric for that.
If you have central A/C consider seriously switching to heat pumps, do your math for payoff based on reducing the heating-related costs by 60-65%...

Re: Electric Bill

Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:58:58 EDT
J E F F posted :
said by Archivis:
said by J E F F:
You might consider converted to oil or propane if you can't get NG.

I'll certainly be checking into propane.

As some have pointed out, depending on electrical vs propane rates, the savings might not be huge.

Here are a couple tips when it comes to electrical baseboards:

Make sure heaters are at least 3/4 of an inch off of the ground (that includes being 3/4 of an inch off of a carpet) and clean them and make sure they're free of dust. Any dust on them will ruin any efficiency.

For other tips, check this out.

»www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/int···ters.pdf

I'll add that while electrical baseboard might be 100% efficient in converting to heat, I'm not sure how efficient they'd be compared to forced air when actually used in practice of heating a room. I'd imagine that there is a lot of loss with electrical baseboards that lose heat to the wall itself, and then outside, vs forced air that moves air around in the house. Just how much "BTU's" you lose in any given house is anyones guess, you'd need an energy audit to figure that one out.

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