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birdfeedr
MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI

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birdfeedr to navyson

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Re: Horrible youtube speeds

Please check out this link as a start. You need to know a little more about tier-1 carriers. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti ··· _network

Here's a list of large Tier-2 carriers. Note the second paragraph of the text. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti ··· _network

Google is not on this list, although that does not mean it is not tier-2.
A tier-2 purchases transit from a tier-1, not the other way. Tier-3 typically purchases transit from a tier-2.

Purchase cost includes bandwidth. If you have a skinny pipe because that's all you're willing to pay, peak time access will suffer.

Comcast is a tier-2 ISP. Get a traceroute from a comcast address to youtube to see who provides transit.

From my VZ address, traceroute to youtube goes through Verizon through alter.net to the google gateway. While alter.net is a verizon business component, there's lots of folks who know VZ's right hand doesn't know what its left hand is doing.

You may find a traceroute to youtube from home a bit different than one from work. You can't tell if the hop is on a fat pipe or a skinny pipe, but I'll bet if a hop is showing packet loss and lag, it's a skinny pipe or it has a lot of traffic going through it.

I believe the recent FiOS slowdowns are almost certainly the result of rapid expansion into Quantum tiers. That's the single most recent event with the largest impact on network congestion. As FiOS subscribers continue to complain about network congestion, it will get addressed. Changes to a tier-1 network are never quickly made. Someone has already said it will take about 3 or 4 months for the network to settle down, same as it did when FiOS pushed the envelope with the new high-speed tiers back in 2010 and several times since then.

One really interesting problem is how google's gigabit fiber in Kansas City will transit to the internet.

houkouonchi
join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA

houkouonchi

Member

said by birdfeedr:

Please check out this link as a start. You need to know a little more about tier-1 carriers. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti ··· _network

Here's a list of large Tier-2 carriers. Note the second paragraph of the text. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti ··· _network

Google is not on this list, although that does not mean it is not tier-2.
A tier-2 purchases transit from a tier-1, not the other way. Tier-3 typically purchases transit from a tier-2.

Purchase cost includes bandwidth. If you have a skinny pipe because that's all you're willing to pay, peak time access will suffer.

Comcast is a tier-2 ISP. Get a traceroute from a comcast address to youtube to see who provides transit.

From my VZ address, traceroute to youtube goes through Verizon through alter.net to the google gateway. While alter.net is a verizon business component, there's lots of folks who know VZ's right hand doesn't know what its left hand is doing.

said by guppy_fish:

None of that happened ... if you spend more time than a Quick search.

NetFix and Google ( primarily YouTube ) are almost 50% of peak traffic now ( more than doubled since 2010 ) and they don't transit other peoples traffic, they only push bits.

Verizon doesn't pay anyone for traffic, as there a tier one network, meaning they ARE the internet, or a large part of it in the US. Verizon has no data caps, they will happily deliver bits day and night.

Google has to pay for the traffic they push, about 10% of the peak bandwidth, just like any other commercial enterprise, the problem for Google, unlike Netflix, which all Netflix customers are paying customers, Google floods out video for "free" to its viewers, and takes in money from advertising, to the tune of almost 3 billion.

Free does pay the bills for footing 10% of the US peak bandwidth

So the fix is YouTube becomes subscription based or Google pays for pushing its Videos, Google then buys peering to match the traffic, just like Nextflix does which by the way isn't having any issues.

Google by the way can purchase peering from many sources, not one has to be Verizon, and they do, like using X/O communications, they need more, its there business and there decision on what to do.

At some point, a company gets so large in their needs, the most cost effective approach is to become a tier one provider, which means a nation wide network which they can plunk down 10's of billions to build and then can push all the traffic ( and carry it ) just like all the other tier one carriers for no peering costs.

The two most accurate description of the problem in this thread. Sorry this is all on Google's end.