Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | Java 64bit for IE 10 Win 8 won't install latest version! Belarc Advisor (latest definitions) keeps saying that I am missing Java 64 bit version. I was missing it because IE 10 (desktop) had somehow unchecked "enable enhanced protected mode" and was running as 64 bit but not for the tabs which were running as 32bit which is not good considering Flash is embedded. So, I think Oracle didn't see any 64 bit browser on this computer and thus installed only Java 32 bit Java ver 7x15 several days ago.
So, when I ran Belarc Advisor today, it told me I was missing the 64bit Java update. I re-enabled "enhanced protected mode" in IE 10 (remembering to reboot the computer) and then checked BOTH versions of IE on Win 8 and both have "enhanced protected mode" enabled which means IE 32 bit does not run at all. Only 64 bit version runs (you can't tell from "about IE" only by checking to see if you have enhanced protected mode checked in advanced options tab. I then tried to install Java (offline package) again. It protested I already had it installed but I said install it again. So, it removed the 32 bit version and reinstalled it and, I think, the 64 bit version.
I rebooted again and started IE and went to the java.com page to check the installation. I got the security popup and then also Proxo toggle switch. I clicked through those and was told I have 32bit Java! That should not be possible since this is 64bit IE including the tabs.
Then I ran Belarc Advisor again. It says I am missing the 64 bit latest version of Java. So, how do I install the 64bit version? Probably, Java 64bit won't run on IE 10 but it still needs to be installed as earlier versions are installed. (I didn't realize back then that 64bit Java won't run on IE 10 64 bit and you cannot fully remove Java from IE so the best solution is to keep both 32 bit and 64bit Java UP TO DATE on IE 10 and, if you need Java, revert to IE 32 bit to use Java and then back to 64bit so Flash is better protected and Flash runs on 64bit IE).
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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 Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:7 | »www.java.com/en/download/faq/win8_faq.xml |
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Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:7 | reply to Mele20
»www.neowin.net/news/how-to-enabl···indows-8 |
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Java active-x for IE 32/64 have separate installers unlike flash player. To be sure both bitness is installed, use the standalone offline java installers for each.
»www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/···261.html
When IE10 desktop is configured to run in "enhanced protected mode", it will use java 64 bit activex.
Understanding Enhanced Protected Mode
»blogs.msdn.com/b/ieinternals/arc···top.aspx |
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| reply to Name Game
Firefox 64-bit can run java 64bit, contained in 64-bit plugin container and java 64bit protected by EMET3.5  |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to Mele20
Thanks, but I have read and used both those links back last year.
I have confirmed that IE 10 is NOT currently running as full 64 bit even though I have EPM checked in IE Options/advanced tab and I rebooted. When I first read the Neowin article, a couple of months ago, I was able to get IE 64 bit running on Win 8 Pro DESKTOP. Java 64bit installed and then Java would not work on IE 64bit.
I know IE 64bit is NOT running even when I start it from C:\Program Files (not from C:\Program Files (x86) because just now I successfully installed Bing Bar on IE 10! That will not install if IE is running as 64bit. I checked IE Options/advanced tab before I installed Bing Bar and EPM was checked. With EPM checked, theoretically, Bing Bar could not have installed because it can't run when the IE tabs are contained in a sandbox.
Earlier today, I had noted that BOTH versions of IE have EPM checked. I started each version from Windows Explorer so I could tell if I was starting 64 bit or 32 bit version (since "About IE" has no information in this regard). EPM should not be able to be check marked in 32bit IE 10. I only enabled it in IE 10 that I started from C:\Program Files which is supposed to be the 64 bit version. Yet, when I closed that IE and started the 32 bit version from C:\Program Files (x86), I found that EPM was checked in that version also! Checking that enables the tabs to be sandboxed making IE full 64bit on Win 8 Desktop rather than its usual hybrid state of mostly 64 bit but the tabs running as 32 bit.
Something is quite wrong. Enabling EPM does NOT give me 64bit IE although it did back in December when I first read the Neowin article and followed those instructions. I also read MICROSOFT's own article on this which gives a lot of detail about enabling EPM for Desktop IE 10 on Win 8 so that it runs in full 64bit mode. So, enabling EPM is supposed to work but it is not currently working for me. I still have IE 10 running in hybrid mode where the tabs are not running sandboxed yet EPM is checked in the advanced tab.
I found a thread in Microsoft's own forums where someone asked about how to enable IE 10 in Win 8 Pro to run as full 64bit and a reply from a Microsoft person was to enable EPM. The user replied that they did that and still had only hybrid IE 10 with the tabs running as 32bit. No one replied to that comment.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to bluepoint
I can't use that Oracle link you gave. I posted about it earlier. I was not the only person posting here who could not use it. I have to download from java.com and there activeX and plugin versions are now combined in one installer. The activeX 32bit version installs just fine along with the plugin version from ONE Oracle installation but he 64 bit doesn't. I do the full offline installation.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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2 edits | 
32 and 64 bit |
Downloading java from java.com with IE10 with EPM enabled or disabled gets the 32 bit installer no matter, therefore, you will not be able to install the 64 bit version from the site. You need to get the 64 bit installer from the link I posted above then install to have the 64 bit version. You said you cannot access the site. Why? What error are you getting?
IE10 in W8 uses active-x(addons) bitness(32 or 64) depends whether EPM is enabled or not. IE 10 will use 64 bit addons when EPM is enabled and 32 bit addons when EPM is disabled. Wherever you start IE, from program x86 or program the manager processes always run as 64 bit processes.
For IE10, we’ve changed IE such that Manager Processes always run as 64bit processes when running on a 64bit processor running a 64bit version of Windows. This improves security among other things. We do not expect that this change will meaningfully impact compatibility, because the Manager Process is designed not to run 3rd party content, and thus there’s little opportunity for anyone to take a dependency upon the Frame Process’ bitness. In support of this change, the various registry points that point to Internet Explorer have been updated to point to C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe. If you manually invoke C:\Program Files (x86)\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe, that 32bit process will simply launch the 64bit version of iexplore.exe (with the appropriate command line parameters) before exiting. |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | I get a permission error when I try to use the Oracle download you linked to:
»Re: Java SE 7 Update 15 & Java SE 6 Update 41 released
I tried Fx and Opera and SeaMonkey there...all got me denied. I don't remember if I tried IE. I'll do that now.
I had forgotten the manager processes always run as 64bit. I can see from Process Explorer that IE is running as 64 bit when I open various tabs and each is in its own container/sandboxed...that's 64 bit doing that.
What has me confused is that EPM is enabled so why is IE running 32bit Java? Even if only 32bit Java is on the system now shouldn't IE simply return an error about Java not being installed since 64 bit isn't now? Why does it use 32bit when EPM is enabled?
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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| said by Mele20:What has me confused is that EPM is enabled so why is IE running 32bit Java? Even if only 32bit Java is on the system now shouldn't IE simply return an error about Java not being installed since 64 bit isn't now? Why does it use 32bit when EPM is enabled?
No, when it comes to java, IE will not give you an error when it can not use an addon. With EPM enabled try a site that uses java, like the speedtest here @dslreports.
But for adobe reader that only comes with 32 bit, when used with EPM, IE will not let adobe reader open the pdf inside the browser instead it will ask if you want it downloaded then open outside of IE. With EPM disabled, IE will open it inside the browser. |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to Mele20
Sigh. Evidently, Proxo was blocking cookies AFTER I would accept the license. It didn't BLOCK the ones before accepting though and I didn't realize there were more. Once I thought to bypass Proxo then I saw about 4 more cookies popup on IE 10 that I used and I accepted each and then got a download box. It is SLOWLY downloading. Even with Proxo bypassed, Proxo is messing badly with my download speeds (not web pages but direct downloads from servers). Never had this happen with any other version of Windows. I've had Proxo block some cookies before and should have thought of that sooner as a possible culprit. But proxo affecting direct download speeds from servers even when bypassed? That is new with Win 8 and it affects the speed SEVERELY
Anyhow, download is done so I'll install it now.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to bluepoint
said by bluepoint:said by Mele20:What has me confused is that EPM is enabled so why is IE running 32bit Java? Even if only 32bit Java is on the system now shouldn't IE simply return an error about Java not being installed since 64 bit isn't now? Why does it use 32bit when EPM is enabled?
No, when it comes to java, IE will not give you an error when it can not use an addon. With EPM enabled try a site that uses java, like the speedtest here @dslreports. But for adobe reader that only comes with 32 bit, when used with EPM, IE will not let adobe reader open the pdf inside the browser instead it will ask if you want it downloaded then open outside of IE. With EPM disabled, IE will open it inside the browser. Yes, I recall when I was able to install 64 bit Java in December (and I think in Jan also) that I did not get an error when EPM was enabled. I got nothing. Java just didn't work.
My point now is why, when EPM is enabled, does IE 10 use 32bit Java? It should not do that when EPM is enabled. I use this speed test »web100.rit.edu:7123/ and other locations of Web100 test for many years. It is Java based and this test and Visualware's Java based speed tests are a main reason (about the only reason) I keep Java on my computer. I just opened a tab to this speed test and up popped the box asking for permission to run Java (slider is on extra high) . I granted permission and Java 32bit loaded. But it should not have since EPM is on.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to Mele20
I installed 64bit Java just now. Went here »www.java.com/en/download/testjava.jsp to test it. It no longer honors the slider popup! It loads before I have time to read the information on the popup and choose yes or no. It was honoring the popup before I installed the 64bit version. It STILL LOADS the 32 bit version! UGH.
I would just uninstall Java for IE except I read an article recently explaining that you can't really get rid of Java on IE once installed. I guess I can use the CERT method to disable IE but it is NOT current so it will not disable recent Java CLSIDs.
»www.infoworld.com/t/web-browsers···page=0,0
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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3 edits | reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:My point now is why, when EPM is enabled, does IE 10 use 32bit Java? It should not do that when EPM is enabled. I use this speed test »web100.rit.edu:7123/ and other locations of Web100 test for many years. It is Java based and this test and Visualware's Java based speed tests are a main reason (about the only reason) I keep Java on my computer. I just opened a tab to this speed test and up popped the box asking for permission to run Java (slider is on extra high) . I granted permission and Java 32bit loaded. But it should not have since EPM is on.
I don't know, it shouldn't. Enabling EPM needs a restart of IE to take effect have you done that before the test?
In Internet Explorer on the Desktop, by default, Content Processes remain at 32bit by default for compatibility with 32bit ActiveX controls, Toolbars, BHOs, etc. Even when you directly launch the 64bit iexplore.exe executable, you will still have a 64bit Manager Process that hosts only 32bit Content Processes. If you want to enable 64bit Content Processes for the Desktop, you must tick the Enable Enhanced Protected Mode option in the Security section of Internet Explorer’s Tools > Internet Options > Advanced tab. When this option is enabled, all Content Processes that are running in Protected Mode (e.g. Internet Zone and Restricted Zone, by default) will begin to use 64bit Content Processes. |
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said by Mele20:I would just uninstall Java for IE except I read an article recently explaining that you can't really get rid of Java on IE once installed. Who said that? I just uninstalled both of them then deleted two "Sun folders around.  |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | »www.infoworld.com/t/web-browsers···page=0,0
The above article talks about disabliing Java in IE and it is extremely difficult if not impossible. Maybe uninstalling works.
»techlogon.com/2011/11/05/how-to-···a-in-ie/
The above article says you have to completely uninstall Java from IE. Not possible to disable it. The first article refers to this one.
So, you are probably ok. I'd like to be able to disable it and then if I really wanted to do so enable it and use it and disable it again. That is what I do for my other browsers and it is easy in them to disable and have it really be disabled and then enable when I need it to run a speed test.
Think of the folks who believe when they enter IE's Manage Addons and disable all the plugins under Oracle/Java that does NOTHING. Java keeps happily running in IE. You disable Java in Fx, SM and OPera addons and it is disabled so you would expect the same in IE but not true.
Microsoft should be ashamed of itself. So, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there is some bug in IE 10 that lets 32 bit Java run even when EPM is checked in Advanced Options.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:7 | Cockpit error..I never had problems..and for many friends got rid of that crazy metro stuff »www.classicshell.net/ |
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| reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:The above article says you have to completely uninstall Java from IE. Not possible to disable it. The first article refers to this one.
So, you are probably ok. I'd like to be able to disable it and then if I really wanted to do so enable it and use it and disable it again. There are many ways to disable java according to what I read around but didn't pay attention cause I'ved uninstalled java a long time ago. One way to disable java in IE, is through active-x filtering. Enabling active-x filtering effectively disables all addons(active-x) including java. None of your active-x will run in IE without your permission. Whenever you encounter a website that needs an active-x, you have a choice of turning active-x on if trusted then off again when done or leave it on for that site. It's a per site whitelisting and I've use it effectively. |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to Name Game
Huh? "Cockpit error"?
As for Metro stuff, I prefer Start8 to classicshell. |
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Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:7 | fine..don't stop there 
»www.pcworld.com/article/2027945/···ver.html |
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