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Cloneman

join:2002-08-29
Montreal
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2 edits

Trollol Bell Brings out the big guns, 250gb included QC

I have to say I'm impressed with Bell's latest offer - they are really trying to grab customers from Videotron and Rogers.

For Quebec, I'm seeing 50/10 service now coming with 250gb by default. That's a shockingly acceptable amount of bandwith, most people won't need to fork an extra 30$ for unlimited. Even more suprising, their fine print seems to guarentee the speeds they are adverising within 10%!


Download speeds from 46 Mbps to 50 Mbps
Upload speeds from 9 Mbps to 10 Mbps
Internet usage: 250 GB of bandwidth per month


They are really trying to increase the spread in terms of value between their competitors.

With 250gb free dryloop, free modem rental, free installation, and 50/10 Available today, I would hesitate to recommend a wholesale alternative. Sure, it's only for 6 months, but you can switch to 25/10 retention at point probably for about the same price




edited to fix blown margins. --state
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Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
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reply to Cloneman

Re: Trollol Bell Brings out the big guns, 250gb included QC

said by Cloneman:

Even more suprising, their fine print seems to guarentee the speeds they are advertising within 10%!

Sync rate, not actual throughput from your location to the Interweb. This is sort of a downgrade, as it has always been my understanding that they wouldn't sell you a VDSL2 package unless you could sync at the advertised rate. Now they'll hook you up if you sync at only 46.

What does it say for 25/10 and 15/10?
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JCohen
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reply to Cloneman

Re: Trollol Bell Brings out the big guns, 250gb included QC

Click for full size
175GB in Ontario
Click for full size
25/10 in Ontario
Click for full size
15/10 in Ontario


Davesnothere
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2 edits

said by JCohen:

[various screenshots]

 
See the last plan, just above.

It is horribly dishonest to lump 15/1 and 15/10 together into one new tier - even for Bell that is a new low in advertising ethics.

They are essentially blurring the distinction between standard FTTN and VDSL two previously distinct standards of service, from a Joe Six-Pack customer perspective.

And of course their buddies at the CRTC rubber-stamped the tariff for such a blatantly misleadingly titled tier....

EDITED to satisfy the nitpicking of another poster.


JCohen
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said by Davesnothere:

said by JCohen:

[various screenshots]

 
See the last plan, just above.

It is horribly dishonest to lump 15/1 and 15/10 together into one new tier - even for Bell that is a new low in advertising ethics.

They are essentially blurring the distinction between standard FTTN and VDSL.

And of course their buddies at the CRTC rubber-stamped the tariff for such a blatantly misleadingly titled tier....

They've been doing that since they launched the 15/10 tier although because they outlay the possible speeds it's legal.


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said by JCohen:

....because they outlay the possible speeds, it's legal.

 
But it's still trash talk.

It takes the term 'Up To' to a whole new low - literally.


Gone
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reply to Davesnothere

Standard FTTN is VDSL. You've got it backward.

Most of Bell's ADSL2+ has been upgraded to VDSL2, though. This is why they did a blanket upgrade on the upload speed. You'll find very few areas that can only get ADSL2+ that is limited to the 1Mbit/s upload, and those few areas that remain will be upgraded to VDSL2 sooner rather than later.



JCohen
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by JCohen:

....because they outlay the possible speeds, it's legal.

 
But it's still trash talk.

It takes the term 'Up To' to a whole new low - literally.

Yea I agree with you on the new low part.

said by Gone:

Standard FTTN is VDSL. You've got it backward.

Most of Bell's ADSL2+ has been upgraded to VDSL2, though. This is why they did a blanket upgrade on the upload speed. You'll find very few areas that can only get ADSL2+ that is limited to the 1Mbit/s upload, and those few areas that remain will be upgraded to VDSL2 sooner rather than later.

I think that their are still a lot of rural area in both Ontario and Quebec that can still only get ADSL.


Gone
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said by JCohen:

I think that their are still a lot of rural area in both Ontario and Quebec that can still only get ADSL.

... and many urban/suburban areas, too. ADSL isn't the same as ADSL2, though. The areas that have ADSL2+ and not VDSL2 will eventually get VDSL2. If they can only get 15/1 right now, they'll get 15/10 eventually.

The areas with just ADSL getting upgraded to something that will allow more than a 6/800k sync rate? Who knows.


Davesnothere
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2 edits
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Standard FTTN is VDSL. You've got it backward.

Most of Bell's ADSL2+ has been upgraded to VDSL2, though. This is why they did a blanket upgrade on the upload speed. You'll find very few areas that can only get ADSL2+ that is limited to the 1Mbit/s upload, and those few areas that remain will be upgraded to VDSL2 sooner rather than later.

 
You seem to derive some perverse enjoyment from correcting me on fine points, rather than agreeing or disagreeing with me on my primary purpose - which was to make negative remarks about Bell's advertising.

BTW, I did not clearly specify earlier, which term I believed to be which.

The way in which I was looking at it was that anything where we so far have had to rent one of Bell's fancy modems would be called VDSL[whatever-number], and that my recent model DSL modem which I last used on a 5M/800K profile, and which I have been told would work on FTTN (but not on VDSL[whatever-number], and that this would include up to a 15/1 profile if my local loop (line) was as good as they had been telling me, and would be served from my CO, as I am 2 or 3 blocks away.

But OK, are you saying that VDSL[2] is any profile where the upstream is more than 1 Mbps and that VDSL[1] is anything up to and including 1 up, and that each of these is a type of FTTN ?

Are you saying that VDSL[whatever-number] is a subset/type of FTTN, so that if a service is VDSL[whatever-number], that it is still also a type of FTTN ?

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Gone
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Bell hasn't used VDSL1 for quite some time, and the only place they ever used VDSL1 was for their MDU versions of ExpressVu. It was never available as a retail product like VDSL2 is.

It's simple.

If the best you can do is 6/800k (or what Bell advertises as 5/800) you're on regular ADSL.
If the best you see show up on Bell's website is 15/10, you're probably on one of the very few remaining ADSL2+ only remotes and will only get 15/1 until they upgrade that remote to VDSL2. You could theoretically be distance limited, but they don't build out the VDSL2 network at the distances that would only allow 15.
If anything else shows up, you're on VDSL2.

I have no idea what's feeding the areas in Port Colborne and Welland I've come across that say it can be fed by 5/1 on Bell's website and nothing else. Either they've got an ADSL2+ DSLAM in there they won't light up for anything faster, or it's an error and they're really doing regular 5/800k.

The reason they only sell a VDSL2-based 15/10 package is because something like 95% of all Bell customers who can get something faster than regular ol' 6Mbit ADSL are already fed by VDSL2 and aren't limited to an ADSL2+ slam. Those who can only get ADSL2+ right now will eventually be upgraded to VDSL2 at some point in the near future.



Nitpicker

@videotron.ca
reply to Cloneman

Click for full size
20$ less
If you look at Videotron 60-meg service (to be 10-meg down in April), all Bell did was copy the exact same price. with the exact same speed, with the exact same usage.
»www.videotron.com/residential/in···ernet-60

I don't see anything fantastic here.

said by Cloneman:

I have to say I'm impressed with Bell's latest offer - they are really trying to grab customers from Videotron and Rogers.

For Quebec, I'm seeing 50/10 service now coming with 250gb by default. That's a shockingly acceptable amount of bandwith, most people won't need to fork an extra 30$ for unlimited. Even more suprising, their fine print seems to guarentee the speeds they are adverising within 10%!

Bell is only playing catch-up.
And videotron increased it's upload speed (which they could have done at any time) to match Bell.

None of them lowered price and instead chose to keep prices the same.

Only wholesale can make a difference here. Ebox is offering the same thing for ~60$ (upload to increase in April) for 20$ less.

There are no big guns here, and nothing at all new or great.


Davesnothere
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4 edits
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Bell hasn't used VDSL1 for quite some time, and the only place they ever used VDSL1 was for their MDU versions of ExpressVu. It [VDSL1] was never available as a retail product like VDSL2 is.

A-HAAAA !!! - Now I feel SO much less embarassed about never having heard that there have been 2 types of VDSL, as it was not widely known nor advertised ! - For me, I have regarded all types/versions of VDSL as simply 'VDSL'. - For you, however, this extra knowledge could be either a blessing or a curse, depending upon how you look at it.

said by Gone:

It's simple. - If the best you can do is 6/800k (or what Bell advertises as 5/800) you're on regular ADSL.

If the BEST you see show up on Bell's website is 15/10, you're probably on one of the very few remaining ADSL2+ only remotes and will only get 15/1 until they upgrade that remote to VDSL2.

And THAT is the primary beef which I expressed in my earliest post of the current thread - though I am (and still would be) served from the CO as I am so close to it - and I do not think that we have nor need remotes in a community of about 2 Km radius around our CO, if we stay within 15/1.

Furthermore, there is confusion in that I do not think that Indie ISPs are yet offering 15/10 DSL, just 15/1 so far.

said by Gone:

You could theoretically be distance limited, but they don't build out the VDSL2 network at the distances that would only allow 15.

If anything else shows up, you're on VDSL2.

This currently would mean 25/10 or higher, then ?

said by Gone:

I have no idea what's feeding the areas in Port Colborne and Welland I've come across that say it can be fed by 5/1 on Bell's website and nothing else. Either they've got an ADSL2+ DSLAM in there they won't light up for anything faster, or it's an error and they're really doing regular 5/800k.

The reason they only sell a VDSL2-based 15/10 package is because something like 95% of all Bell customers who can get something faster than regular ol' 6Mbit ADSL are already fed by VDSL2 and aren't limited to an ADSL2+ slam.

Those who can only get ADSL2+ right now will eventually be upgraded to VDSL2 at some point in the near future.

Doesn't that disagree with the figures which Mister Rocca pulled from his internal Bell lookup, where he said that 43% of all lines qualified for 25/10, and 59% of all lines qualified for 15/1 ? (I will double-check his posts, but I believe that to be what he posted - and I had questioned him at the time for clarifications)

EDIT - Here's the link : »Re: Start communications as of Feb-11-2013 2Mb DSL service

My ongoing lament is that regardless of what tech term we call them, service tiers known as 15/10 and 15/1 are so VERY different performance profiles (and clearly so in that 15/10 requires a different modem too), and, as such it is unfair and deceitful for Bell to lump them together and call them by the number which markets best and yet is so frequently untrue.

And again, there is confusion in that I do not think that Indie ISPs are yet offering 15/10 DSL, just 15/1 so far - so that anomaly ALONE may distort the impression of how many lines are capable of which profiles.


Gone
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59 minus 43 is still a very small number compared to all the ADSL1 stuff out there. Also keep in mind, if you're in an ADSL2+ only area right now, you *will* eventually get VDSL2. The ADSL2+ SLAM in the Niagara Falls CO on Victoria Avenue was upgraded to VDSL2 at some point in the last six months, so it is happening. It may only be 15/1 right now, but at some point you'll get a new modem and it will be 15/10.

The same cannot be said for the other half of Bell's territory that only qualifies for old G.DMT ADSL1. Whether they get anything faster than that is up in the area. The two Bell guys I know who roam here in Fort Erie have said that most of Niagara, including Port Colborne and Fort Erie, will get VDSL2 just like St. Cats and the ongoing rollout in Welland and Niagara Falls. I've heard others say that we won't. Who knows.

And yeah, there are some significant differences between old school VDSL1 and VDSL2. Hell, there's even differences between the VDSL2 line profiles that Bell has deployed. Some areas use 12a, but the newer rollouts (including all of St. Cats) are 17a and I still can't find anywhere in that city that doesn't qualify for 50/10, including even Thorold and Niagara-on-the-Lake near the College. All 50/10 and Fibe TV. Then there's even different VDSL2 hardware out there that isn't exactly compatible with one another as far as the CPE goes.



Davesnothere
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said by Gone:

59% minus 43% is still a very small number compared to all the ADSL1 stuff out there.

And that would appear to be the 41% mentioned in my post found at the above-posted link - the remainder from 100% less the 59%.

said by Gone:

Also keep in mind, if you're in an ADSL2+ only area right now, you *will* eventually get VDSL2....

....at some point you'll [need to] get a new modem and it will be [for] 15/10.

Will this also apply to folks served from a CO, such as me ?

And are you saying that some folks' max profile will then become 15/10, or were you just making an example of a VDSL profile ?

said by Gone:

The same cannot be said for the other half of Bell's territory that only qualifies for old G.DMT ADSL1. Whether they get anything faster than that is up in the air....

I think that Brockville and Kingston may be in that boat, though fortunately Cogeco has upgraded most of that market.

said by Gone:

And yeah, there are some significant differences between old school VDSL1 and VDSL2. Hell, there's even differences between the VDSL2 line profiles that Bell has deployed. Some areas use 12a, but the newer rollouts (including all of St. Cats) are 17a and I still can't find anywhere in that city that doesn't qualify for 50/10, including even Thorold and Niagara-on-the-Lake near the College. All 50/10 and Fibe TV. Then there's even different VDSL2 hardware out there that isn't exactly compatible with one another as far as the CPE goes.

And all of that jumble must be why we had the modem compatibility issues when 25/7 first was introduced, leading to Bell deciding to control (spelled R-E-N-T to everyone) the modems.

Cable strikes me as SO much simpler !

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
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said by Davesnothere:

Will this also apply to folks served from a CO, such as me ?

It theoretically could be, but for most people it won't due to distance limitations. My old address in the falls backed onto the CO. I could see my telephone wire go into my back yard, make a left-hand turn and then go right into the CO. That address now qualifies for 25/10. It only makes sense that it is fed off the CO at some level or another.

For what it's worth, ADSL2+ and VDSL2 have similar distance limitations once you get down to the 15Mbit level.

gnumantsc

join:2003-07-23

You're also forgetting that price is for 6 months ongoing price is after the "introductory" offer and it gets almost double


InvalidError

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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

A-HAAAA !!! - Now I feel SO much less embarassed about never having heard that there have been 2 types of VDSL, as it was not widely known nor advertised ! - For me, I have regarded all types/versions of VDSL as simply 'VDSL'.

Bell used VDSL1 for "ExpressVu for Condos" and "Bell Entertainment Services" for a while. As far as advertising goes, those services are only available in condos/MDUs that have signed up for them so you would hear very little if anything about them unless you lived in one of those.

Cloneman

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Montreal
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reply to gnumantsc

said by gnumantsc:

You're also forgetting that price is for 6 months ongoing price is after the "introductory" offer and it gets almost double

yes, I'm forgetting it by mentioning it in my thread - it's a revolutionary new way to forget :P

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON

If I wasn't limited to 5mbps download, I'd consider switching to DSL..



Gone
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said by geokilla:

If I wasn't limited to 5mbps download, I'd consider switching to DSL..

Same.