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Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
reply to SuperNet9

Re: New Furnace/humidifier water going into sub pump

All that snow we got has been melting the last two or three days. that may be part of why it's running so often.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to SuperNet9

Condensing furnace/boiler condensate should be neutralized to as close to pH 7.0 as possible before being dumped into a sump for pumping out. The condensate is acidic and can damage pump components and even concrete sumps.

The easiest and cheapest way to neutralize condensate is to use some 3-4" PVC pipe and build a 12"-18" tall assembly with a glued cap right on the bottom, a condensate input connection near the bottom on the side, a condensate output connection near the top on the side, and a screw cap on the top.

Fill the PVC column with 3/4" limestone or marble chips from a landscape supply store. The condensate will be neutralized by the limestone/marble-acid reaction. By injecting the condensate at the bottom of the column, it will be neutralized by the time it flows out of the output at the top. When the acid has devoured 1/2 the limestone simply add more stone via the screw top.



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN
reply to pike

said by pike:

No, that's absolutely incorrect. Your installer should have installed a separate condensate pump (pictured above) for the humidifier/heat/AC water. Using the sump pump is not acceptable. Get the installer back out and tell them they must install a proper condensate pump.

I really can't imagine why you would rather use a condensate pump instead of a sump pump. Condensate pumps are for when you don't have a sump or drain nearby and your only recourse is to install a condensate pump. A sump pit with a pump is going to be less maintenance and longer lasting than a condensate pump. Not to mention the fact if you have a water leak nearby the condensate pump isn't going to do anything to help you, while the sump pump will.


jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
reply to cableties

said by cableties:

IMHO-inefficient design: waste of water, waste of electricity, shortens lifespan of condensate pump (how long do they last?) and sumppump (not good having them run all winter, dumping water out to freeze/ice; not good having run all summer when above 80F out).

Please explain? My sump pump better run any time the pit fills up, year round and regardless of weather, but I'm curious why you believe this?

Stevert

join:2001-10-23
Algonquin, IL
reply to SuperNet9

We got a few inches of snow last week, and warmer temps yesterday and today are melting it off pretty quickly.

With the ground mostly still frozen, the only place for that melted snow to escape is next to his foundation, where the heat loss tends to keep the ground from freezing.

I'm sure that's why his sump pump is running more frequently. I know mine is running a lot.



tmh

@comcastbusiness.net
reply to cableties

said by cableties:

I have that "aprilaire" free humdifier perk when new furnace was installed.

Aprilaire, along with Honeywell humidifiers are quality products. The version you have doesn't recycle the water, so you don't have any problems with scale buildup or mold developing in standing water. The downside is that it does use a lot of water, especially at the default setting. A simple needle valve inline can fix this.

I have a Honeywell unit. I adjust the water flow on mine to a very slow trickle, just enough to keep the pad wet when in steady state.

Even at this slow rate, it can bump humidity up to better than 55% full out when it's 20F outside. I never set it that high, because every window pane will be pouring water. 40% works better for me.

The humidifier drains into a 14 year old condensate pump that was already 7 years old when I installed the humidifier. So far, the pump still works like a champ. Just remember to clean out the pump every year and it'll keep working just fine.


rockotman
...Blown On The Steel Breeze
Emerging Research
join:2000-08-06
DSotM
kudos:2
reply to SuperNet9

My Aprilair came with an adjustable humidistat mounted to the front of the furnace air outlet plenum that monitored the humidity in the heated air coming out of the furnace. The humidistat controlled the valve that allowed water to flow through the water panel. The humidifier was the bypass type, and mounted on the side of the furnace outlet plenum.

During heating season, it was necessary to open a flapper in the bypass ductwork coming out of the humidifier. This ductwork routed air that was passing through the water panel back to the furnace cold air return. During the months when the heater was not used, all that was required was to set the humidistat to the lowest setting and close the flapper in the bypass ductwork. This effectively kept the humidifier from trying to add moister to the air while the AC, if running, was removing moisture from the air.

The AC condensate and the run-off from the humidifier both fed into the sump on the condensate pump, so that the pump did the job of getting rid of condensate when the AC was running, and getting rid of excess water from the water panel when the furnace/humidifier was running.

The set-up worked quite well, and the humidifier didn't seem to use an inordinate amount of water during the heating season.

At the start of the heating season, I would crank the humidistat setting up a bit each day until I started to notice a bit of sweat on the windows, then back it off about a quarter of the way. I found that this kept the humidity in the house just about right, making everyone comfortable, but not so bad that my wife would complain about the humidity making her hair frizz out.

I also made for good tight sealing of house by adding enough humidity to cause the framing around the windows to swell just enough that the drafts were kept at bay, but not so much that the bottoms of the windows were always sweating.
--
Shine on you crazy diamond...



SuperNet9
Go Ninja,Go Ninja Go..
Premium
join:2002-10-08
Harwood Heights, IL
kudos:5
reply to SuperNet9

Click for full size
They came back and put it in the floor drain. Is that better? Or do you think it goes to the sub pump anyway??
--
»www.RestartYourComputer.net


Coma
Thanks Steve
Premium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand

said by SuperNet9:

. . . do you think it goes to the sub sump pump anyway??


Yes

--
February is National Cherry Month


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

1 recommendation

reply to SuperNet9

said by SuperNet9:

They came back and put it in the floor drain. Is that better? Or do you think it goes to the sub pump anyway??

Not necessarily. Pour some water down the drain and see. My floor drain is near the sump pit but is connected to the sewer.


Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN
reply to SuperNet9

Test to see where it goes. If it doesn't run into the sump pit then you are better off. I do have a concern with that hole in the sump pit cover though. Does your house have any type of radon problems? If yes, then you need to seal that hole back up.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to jester121

Jester,
Just that the sump pumps up and out (full ceiling height) and reading some posts here about how they freeze up (running during winter) or that they fail (running a humidifier means more work for both condensate and sump pumps where they would be idle).
Ofcourse, if the sump pump and condensate pump design is that it lasts longer running cycles more often than short cycles over long periods of time, can you show me where I can find that data?
Otherwise, I would get the humidifier running. I just don't see running it if it wastes water and shortens any pumps lifespan.
--
Splat



jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

I doubt any empirical data exists, but it's possible that it's better for the pump to run once in a while than to sit dormant for months.

Mine runs year round, many times a day, except for in the middle of a summer drought. I guess we have a high water table, and from looking at old aerial photos of the land, there used to be a creek or spring running right where our house is.

The discharge does freeze up when we hit 10 degrees, which is a pain in the ass. I have to go out and disconnect the black hose and let the water just jet out into the yard. During the summer it's nice to have some free irrigation; I rigged up an underground watering system for a vegetable garden a few years ago and it was ridiculous how fast everything grew, with no hose hassles for me.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Ken

said by Ken:

Test to see where it goes. If it doesn't run into the sump pit then you are better off.

Lots of municipalities will NOT permit un-neutralized condensate to be discharged directly into sanitary or storm drains. The acidic nature of the condensate can damage clay/concrete/iron sewer pipe.


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Ken:

Test to see where it goes. If it doesn't run into the sump pit then you are better off.

Lots of municipalities will NOT permit un-neutralized condensate to be discharged directly into sanitary or storm drains. The acidic nature of the condensate can damage clay/concrete/iron sewer pipe.

Mine runs into the sewer, as does my brothers. My last house did too. My grandmothers runs/ran into her sump pit. Like you said, municipalities may differ but I think in general it's ok in IL. Maybe not ideal, but okay.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Check your local code.
It's illegal where I live.



Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

said by MaynardKrebs:

Check your local code.
It's illegal where I live.

And you live where?


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

said by Jon:

said by MaynardKrebs:

Check your local code.
It's illegal where I live.

And you live where?

I thought everyone knew that.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Jon

said by Jon:

said by MaynardKrebs:

Check your local code.
It's illegal where I live.

And you live where?

Obviously not where you live.