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PiRSquare

@atrianetworks.net

[Cable] Home phone through cable

Hello,

Is it possible to get home phone through cable with Teksavvy or any other provider that is not Rogers?

I currently have Home Phone through Rogers. I want to switch providers, but I have no Bell lines running into my condo. Does anyone know how much it would cost to fish wires through the walls to get a line from my condo to a demarcation point outside?



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

said by PiRSquare :

Hello,

Is it possible to get home phone through cable with Teksavvy or any other provider that is not Rogers?

I currently have Home Phone through Rogers. I want to switch providers, but I have no Bell lines running into my condo. Does anyone know how much it would cost to fish wires through the walls to get a line from my condo to a demarcation point outside?

Rogers home phone is really just special case of VoIP. The difference is unlike all the other providers, it doesn't immediately hit the public internet (does Rogers home phone even hit the internet, anyone know?), it travels along their cable DOCSIS network. The box you have is cable VoIP gateway with battery backup in the unit. If cable goes out, their goes your phone service as well, it's not a perfect alternative to plain old POTS in terms of reliability but most likely has better QoS than other VoIP providers, since no QoS exists on the pubic internet.

If you want to ditch Rogers overpriced VoIP implementation, TekSavvy has TekTalk, their own VoIP service using SIP trunking to an ATA device you would purchase and install in your condo (just a box with ethernet jack to connect to your router, and an RJ-11 (or 2) jacks to connnect to your phones or your internal wiring).

You could buy a simple battery backup to connect just the cable modem, VoIP ATA and your router to to ensure you could still have phone service (and internet service) in a power outage.

Btw if I described Rogers phone service incorrectly someone correct me, I never really fully understood how MSOs implemented phone service over their cable networks, pretty sure they are VoIP though.


franklyong
Cisco Geek

join:2004-12-05
Canada
kudos:1
reply to PiRSquare

I would believe that it shouldn't make a difference. Since the Phones runs off the Rogers Cable Network aslong as you don't cut the Cable to the Home Phone Box you should be fine.


Scycotic

join:2012-12-10
reply to TypeS

As TypeS said, Rogers Home Phone is just a special case of VoIP. If you want to switch providers, and don't have the lines to use POTS, then there are many VoIP solutions around such as voip.ms.



PiRSquare

@atrianetworks.net
reply to PiRSquare

Thanks

Your input is greatly appreciated.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to franklyong

said by franklyong:

I would believe that it shouldn't make a difference. Since the Phones runs off the Rogers Cable Network aslong as you don't cut the Cable to the Home Phone Box you should be fine.

TekSavvy would not be able to run a phone service over the cable lines like Rogers does. They could in theory if they asked Rogers for access to that network but then they'd also have to work with Bell for PSTN access (Rogers and every other MSO needs to connect their cable networks to Telco's PSTN networks to provide phone service), they'd be paying for access to two infrastructures. SIP trunking is simpler since they are already a ISP.


RizzleQ

join:2006-01-12
Windsor, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to PiRSquare

You can get TekTalk which is TekSavvy's VOIP option. It is true that it's different than what Rogers provides for their "home phone" in that it doesn't run independently off a DOCSIS cable network. It simply works off your existing Internet connection, regardless of what you have. If your Internet connection is fairly stable then TekTalk is worth looking into. I have a surprisingly stable DSL connection and TekTalk works perfectly with it.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Rogers Home Phone doesn't touch the internet ... it's all on Rogers internal network. Uses different frequencies down the cable and a different CMTS and different parts of the fibre network from even cell phone and internet. As such it's not subject to as much potential jitter etc. compared with conventional "over the internet VoIP" like TekTalk.

I would never consider either flavour for a primary phone line.


bjlockie

join:2007-12-16
Ottawa, DSL
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by sbrook:

Rogers Home Phone doesn't touch the internet ... it's all on Rogers internal network.

How does that work if you call internationally?

Scycotic

join:2012-12-10

It doesn't use your own internet connection. but once it goes through the cable line and to Rogers, then it's like any other VoIP at that point, but probably also connects to the PSTN network as needed.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

It doesn't use any part of the internet even after going through the cable line ... it goes anywhere in Canada on Rogers network as far as it can and then onto the PSTN to complete the journey. Internationally it goes on the PSTN.

The fact that it uses the PSTN is part of the reason it's just silly expensive. If it were VoIP over the internet, then it would be obscenely expensive.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

Rogers Home Phone doesn't touch the internet ... it's all on Rogers internal network. Uses different frequencies down the cable and a different CMTS and different parts of the fibre network from even cell phone and internet.

I seriously doubt Rogers still use that inefficient setup since they started using MTAs 2-3 years ago and DOC2 MTAs cannot physically do this... not sure it even is an option on DOC3 ones. The logical and efficient way to do it is to apply MAC-level QoS (the real priority-based tagging and queuing from BOTH ends stuff, not the one-sided rate-limiting ghetto-QoS from consumer-grade routers and ISPs) on the modem and CMTS, letting everything use the same QAMs.

Videotron has been using that setup with excellent results since the day they introduced their cable phone around 10 years ago, originally only DOC2 but they started using DOC3 MTAs about two years ago.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to PiRSquare

This is Rogers we're talking about here.

They opted to go separate near the start because of the problems they had from the word go of internet messing up phone.

Even today with Combo MTA/Cable modems available, they still use separate MTAs from CMs because of the separate frequency requirement.



Cybergy

join:2013-03-05
Whitby, ON
reply to sbrook

Interesting. I know that RHF used to be voip, but when I ordered it (last week) I was told that in fact this offering was not voip - but basically RHF uses the coax coming to the house like a POTS copper pair and cable Internet is not even a requirement. $15/month for 2 years (incl. 2 features).

Was I fed a bill of goods? Bad information?

They did say that a POTS splitter was required to be installed to separate voice from data/TV. My install date is set for March 31st.



Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:20

said by Cybergy:

Interesting. I know that RHF used to be voip, but when I ordered it (last week) I was told that in fact this offering was not voip - but basically RHF uses the coax coming to the house like a POTS copper pair and cable Internet is not even a requirement. $15/month for 2 years (incl. 2 features).

They certainly don't "use it like a POTS copper pair".

POTS transmits analog signals over a dedicated copper pair from your house to the central office. Ya, that literally means a bundle of several hundred copper pairs running down the street!

Rogers doesn't do anything like that. They only have one coaxial cable running down the street, and all the houses just tap into it. So, Rogers Home Phone definitely uses digital signals carried over shared wires (aka shared infrastructure). As others have said, it is basically VoIP over a private network.

No doubt much more reliable than other VoIP services, but still nothing at all like POTS.
--
electronicsguru.ca


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Cybergy

It's still VoIP, nothing can ever be like POTS, except POTS. They didn't lie to you, they fudged the facts. VoIP doesn't implicitly mean it needs to travel the internet. Rogers just skips the step where they need to use a SIP trunk though the internet to their data center to connect to a PSTN operator (like Bell). VoIP doesn't need to access the internet to be VoIP, it's analog voice signals digitized and encoded for transition over wires like Ethernet and to route/switch through IP networks. Think of large companies with many many internal extension numbers operating on PBX. Some companies are replacing this by integrating VoIP into their data networks they already use, but external connections will remain PSTN/T1s. Call centers are doing it too, it makes operating a lot more centralized and you only look after 1 network and topology.


ShetiPhian

join:2011-12-29
Belleville, ON

1 edit
reply to PiRSquare

Teddy Boom, they could "use it like a POTS copper pair"
its just a new retro package being offered: Rogers Party Line



Cybergy

join:2013-03-05
Whitby, ON
reply to TypeS

Hmmm, I think you are too generous with Rogers because it certainly smells like a lie to me. I specifically asked the guy if it was voip and he said no. Is there room for interpretation there? Whether or not it's rock-solid voip doesn't change the leopard's spots. Thanks for your replies guys, I understand now.

$15/month for 2 years is still a great deal for voip with QoS. That's why I'm going with RHF over TekTalk - I'm not convinced that my router can ensure quality calls while Netflix and bittorrent are running. In two years I will re-visit this offering.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

thats expensive imo my voip has cost me less than $5 dollars for the past 2 months service voip.ms baby!
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13

Rogers base rate for their home phone is higher than Bell's! And I wouldn't be at all surprised if they don't have a way to increase prices even on their 2 year plan (they seem to manage it for internet and TV!)



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

thats expensive imo my voip has cost me less than $5 dollars for the past 2 months service voip.ms baby!

Whether its cheap or not is matter context though. I pay $30/month for Vonage World unlimited, my household makes good use of the 60+ nations listed as unlimited calling from them. So it is $30 well spent that could be much more through voip.ms' pay as you model.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to PiRSquare

It should be noted that TekSavvy does offer home phone service over cable with their TekTalk service:

»www.teksavvy.com/en/residential/···/tektalk

$10 for basic service (unlimited local calls but no special features beyond caller ID)

$15 for premium service (unlimited local calls, all special features, 100 minutes NA long distance)

$23 for unlimited service (unlimited local calls, all special features, unlimited NA long distance)

Note that the $23 price for unlimited is a current promotion not listed on the site, the regular price is $25. The promo also includes a free dry loop if delivered over TekSavvy DSL.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


aereolis

join:2003-06-12
Brampton, ON
reply to sbrook

Actually its because ted was never comfortable with the reliability of the phone service if they used the phone modems as internet modems as well. There may be a change down the road allowing ultra lite and lite packages.
--
Hello



corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC

said by aereolis:

Actually its because ted was never comfortable with the reliability of the phone service if they used the phone modems as internet modems as well. There may be a change down the road allowing ultra lite and lite packages.

Rogers was paranoid about the service being associated with VoIP - RHP launched in 2005, which was pretty much the early days of consumer VoIP, when it was getting a bad rap because of the 911 issues, unreliability, etc.

Having a separate modem was a way to symbolically separate the "Home Phone Service" from the "Internet" in them minds of Rogers customers.


Cybergy

join:2013-03-05
Whitby, ON
reply to Guspaz

I mentioned TekTalk in my post, but I do not have faith that my router's QoS (for TekTalk call quailty) will in any way compare to the end-to-end QoS that RHP offers.