dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
2836
share rss forum feed


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to Chester2

Re: [Business] Six Strikes included?.

Let's check the AUP for business class and HotSpots, so we can just cut to the chase:

First, you'd need to put in your agreement you intend to have open/public wifi:

quote:
resell the Service or otherwise make available to anyone outside the Service Location(s) the ability to use the Service (for example, through WiFi or other methods of networking), in whole or in part, directly or indirectly, unless expressly permitted by the applicable Business Services Agreement;
Second, even if you give away access, you are expressly responsible for whatever happens, even if a guest does it

quote:
II. Customer Conduct and Features of the Service

What obligations does my business have under this Policy?

In addition to being responsible for its own compliance with this Policy, your business is also responsible for any use or misuse of the Service that violates this Policy, even if it was committed by an employee, contractor, customer, or guest with access to your business' Service account. Therefore, your business must take steps to ensure that others do not use your business' account to gain unauthorized access to the Service by, for example, strictly maintaining the confidentiality of all Service logins and passwords. In all cases, your business is solely responsible for the security of any device it chooses to connect to the Service, including any data stored or shared on that device. In addition, your business is solely responsible for securing access to any Business Class Portal or other feature that provides administrative and account management-related features for your business Service account.

It is also your business' responsibility to secure the Customer-Provided Equipment and any other Service Location(s) equipment or programs not provided by Comcast that connect to the Service from external threats such as viruses, spam, bot nets, and other methods of intrusion.
So, the open wifi defense is covered in the AUP already. Which you read and sign.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Chester2

join:2000-10-17
Menlo Park, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
reply to NetFixer

You are correct in that Comcast Business Class isn't specifically mentioned in the article. It does state that the Center for Copyright Information is not targeting "business-class" accounts with CAS.
--
Craig
»CraigHarris.org My BLOG on Motorcycles, Computer Stuff & Deals.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

So then my theory could hold true. If you want to avoid the 6-strike law, switch from residential to business class. People did it to avoid the download cap, I don't see why they would not do it to avoid this as well.

--Brian



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 recommendation

said by plencnerb:

So then my theory could hold true. If you want to avoid the 6-strike law, switch from residential to business class. People did it to avoid the download cap, I don't see why they would not do it to avoid this as well.

--Brian

Violation of the AUP is grounds for termination of service on business class. With ETF. You could avoid the 6 strike law and replace it with a more expensive 1-2 strike realitiy.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

said by JohnInSJ:

said by plencnerb:

So then my theory could hold true. If you want to avoid the 6-strike law, switch from residential to business class. People did it to avoid the download cap, I don't see why they would not do it to avoid this as well.

--Brian

Violation of the AUP is grounds for termination of service on business class. With ETF. You could avoid the 6 strike law and replace it with a more expensive 1-2 strike realitiy.



Yep; a very basic and simple fact that some in this thread seem to be going out of their way to pretend does not exist.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL

said by NetFixer:

Yep; a very basic and simple fact that some in this thread seem to be going out of their way to pretend does not exist.

But again, a fact that has NOTHING to do with the original question. It wasn't "can sharing illegal content on a business line get you terminated" it was does the new "six strikes" program affect business class connections.
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

said by gwbuffalo:

said by NetFixer:

Yep; a very basic and simple fact that some in this thread seem to be going out of their way to pretend does not exist.

But again, a fact that has NOTHING to do with the original question. It wasn't "can sharing illegal content on a business line get you terminated" it was does the new "six strikes" program affect business class connections.

And the answer is "either it does, or its far less than 6 on business class" - honestly I think you get one warning on business class, and on the second DMCA violation notice traced to your account you're done.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
reply to gwbuffalo

What concerns me about this pop-up stuff is --- I wonder how long before there is some malware that puts a "P2P warning" pop-up on the browser window instructing the user to click through to a malware download site?



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

said by camper:

What concerns me about this pop-up stuff is --- I wonder how long before there is some malware that puts a "P2P warning" pop-up on the browser window instructing the user to click through to a malware download site?

Popups happen all the time, spoofing security/virus scanners and other OS-level alerts.

Why be concerned about this over the plethora of existing social engineering attacks?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by JohnInSJ:

...Why be concerned about this over the plethora of existing social engineering attacks?

Because the customers will be getting notices from the ISPs "sanctioning" the new P2P pop-ups, which is a new twist in the social engineering tactics.

The question I see is whether or not the ISPs will be able to sufficiently distinguish a real P2P pop-up from a bogus one.

If the ISPs cannot do that, then the ISPs are merely creating a new attack vector into their customers' computers for the malware vendors to exploit.


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

btw, here's some info (with screenshots) about Comcast's approach.

»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013···ks-like/


AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

And the answer is "either it does, or its far less than 6 on business class" - honestly I think you get one warning on business class, and on the second DMCA violation notice traced to your account you're done.

The answer is, you have no idea if the six strikes mechanism applies to business accounts or not.


NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
reply to gwbuffalo

said by gwbuffalo:

said by NetFixer:

Yep; a very basic and simple fact that some in this thread seem to be going out of their way to pretend does not exist.

But again, a fact that has NOTHING to do with the original question. It wasn't "can sharing illegal content on a business line get you terminated" it was does the new "six strikes" program affect business class connections.

And there you go again proving my point by ignoring the fact that the business class TOS/AUP makes CAS/6 strikes irrelevant.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

said by NetFixer:

And there you go again proving my point by ignoring the fact that the business class TOS/AUP makes CAS/6 strikes irrelevant.

You are representing an opinion, yours, as a fact. Regardless of the original posters underlying intentions, the question of whether or not the Six Strikes mechanism and policy applies to business accounts is quite valid and apparently not one that anyone here currently has an answer for.
Expand your moderator at work

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

Re: [Business] Six Strikes included?.

Do you have any official information from Comcast on if/how the Six Strikes policy and mechanism applies to a business account? Do you have any direct first hand information about how Comcast deals with DMCA complaints for a business account other than repeating the TOS/AUP?



NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

said by AVonGauss:

Do you have any official information from Comcast on if/how the Six Strikes policy and mechanism applies to a business account? Do you have any direct first hand information about how Comcast deals with DMCA complaints for a business account other than repeating the TOS/AUP?

The TOS/AUP documents are official information from Comcast. Have you ever actually read either the business class or residential TOS/AUP documents? This whole CAS/6 strikes tempest in a teacup is purely a publicity stunt; the actual TOS/AUP documents (for any ISP I have worked with) make CAS/6 strikes totally irrelevant.

OTOH, the fact that so many people are wringing their hands and worrying about CAS/6 strikes is exactly what the program was designed to achieve. So perhaps I was wrong; it may not be irrelevant since it does seem to have accomplished its mission.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

In other words; you are expressing your opinion just like every other poster on this thread and have no more additional information or "facts" than the rest of us.



NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

said by AVonGauss:

In other words; you are expressing your opinion just like every other poster on this thread and have no more additional information or "facts" than the rest of us.

In other words, I can read and interpret published documents that are indeed facts, and not waste my time worrying about a publicity stunt that has already accomplished its primary mission before the first popup warning message has been pushed to a customer.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

The TOS/AUP documents are official information from Comcast. Have you ever actually read either the business class or residential TOS/AUP documents? This whole CAS/6 strikes tempest in a teacup is purely a publicity stunt; the actual TOS/AUP documents (for any ISP I have worked with) make CAS/6 strikes totally irrelevant.

So, riddle me this batman.....if ISP's have had this kind of wording in their TOS/AUP for years, then why all the fuss over CAS/6 strikes to begin with? Could the RIAA / MPAA just look at the ISP's and say something like "Hey..you have this that and the other in your TOS/AUP, and we have reason to believe that user a,b,c,d and e are in violation of section 5 of your TOS/AUP. Please send them this letter and take care of the problem, per the rules already in place in your TOS/AUP"?

Again, I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, just trying to understand logic here. You don't spend millions of dollars to put something in place, when what you are tying to build already exists.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


jtl999
CEO of Actiontec Dev Team

join:2012-11-24
In the GVRD
kudos:4

Telus (ISP in Canada) already sends you letters and does not cut off or modify service.



NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

You don't spend millions of dollars to put something in place, when what you are tying to build already exists.

In the case of Comcast, I really don't see that there would have been a need to spend millions of dollars to implement the terms of the CAS/6 strikes program. The browser popup message mechanism is already in place for their Constant Guard program, and the walled garden mechanism is already in place for the Constant Guard program and for new modem activation.

They were already required to respond to DMCA violation notifications, so the clerical and accounting mechanism for that process would already be in place. The CAS/6 strikes program is just a notification process; the only difference might be (depending on how a particular ISP handles it) whether the tap on the shoulder to get your attention is done with a finger or a baseball bat. It can after all, be quite difficult do get the attention of some people. But the publicity campaign for the CAS/6 strikes program seems to be doing a fine job at getting the attention of some of those who would otherwise not be very responsive (with no baseball bats required).
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to AVonGauss

said by AVonGauss:

said by NetFixer:

And there you go again proving my point by ignoring the fact that the business class TOS/AUP makes CAS/6 strikes irrelevant.

You are representing an opinion, yours, as a fact. Regardless of the original posters underlying intentions, the question of whether or not the Six Strikes mechanism and policy applies to business accounts is quite valid and apparently not one that anyone here currently has an answer for.

I personally know one person on a business class account that got a single DMCA notice from comcast with the wording that this was the only warning, any additional DMCA requests for that account would result in account termination per the TOS. The person admitted to me that they had torrented a recent and popular movie, and the movie title was listed in the DMCA letter.

Based on that fact, I assume comcast business class enforces their AUP. I hold the opinion that if there were a large influx of new business class users who also generate a large influx of DMCA notices, this enforcement would not decrease. That is indeed an opinion. The fact that the TOS already covers DMCA violations and spells out the response (account termination with ETF) leads me to believe CAS would not apply, and existing policy would.

I suppose we will find out, if people try this route.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us
Expand your moderator at work

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to jtl999

Re: [Business] Six Strikes included?.

you know what would be funny?

people on Biz accounts actually try to do illegal things and when they get caught, they play dumb like they don't know...

blaming Comcast and everybody else...

according to a politician I saw on tv, "We have the right to be stupid"....


ualdayan

join:2004-07-17
Antioch, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

said by AVonGauss:

said by NetFixer:

And there you go again proving my point by ignoring the fact that the business class TOS/AUP makes CAS/6 strikes irrelevant.

You are representing an opinion, yours, as a fact. Regardless of the original posters underlying intentions, the question of whether or not the Six Strikes mechanism and policy applies to business accounts is quite valid and apparently not one that anyone here currently has an answer for.

I personally know one person on a business class account that got a single DMCA notice from comcast with the wording that this was the only warning, any additional DMCA requests for that account would result in account termination per the TOS. The person admitted to me that they had torrented a recent and popular movie, and the movie title was listed in the DMCA letter.

Based on that fact, I assume comcast business class enforces their AUP. I hold the opinion that if there were a large influx of new business class users who also generate a large influx of DMCA notices, this enforcement would not decrease. That is indeed an opinion. The fact that the TOS already covers DMCA violations and spells out the response (account termination with ETF) leads me to believe CAS would not apply, and existing policy would.

I suppose we will find out, if people try this route.

Comcast considers business lines to be a totally different product than their residential services (that's why when you try to use Xfinity On Demand on the Xbox 360 it tells you 'you don't have Xfinity internet' when you have a business connection), so it makes sense that this new 6 strikes thing wouldn't apply to a business connection either on that same basis that it isn't the same product. It sounds like instead they go with a 1 warning, 2nd is termination approach for business - which makes it even more strict than residential.