tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | Water Heater Replacement I know there is a prior water heater thread from a few days ago and I have read it. I woke up today and guess what... yup, no hot water. Talk about one thing in the house that you _cannot_ do without.
I've lived in the home for about 7 years. I should have taken pictures this morning (and will probably go home for lunch and take some). It's a Kenmore 40 gallon natural gas heater. It's got that swirl thing in (thought I suspect this does very little). It looks brand new... no signs of any wear. It's just me in the house. Twice a year I might have two other people in for a week.
Last year the pilot light would not stay lit. I finally took off the plastic screen at the bottom and it was fine after that. About a month ago I noticed when the gas heater turned on that it let off a crackle sound. I used the drain line and filled up a 1 gallon buck about 7 or 8 times. Each time about 1/4 cup of debris came out. It still makes the sound.
I tried to start the pilot this morning but it did nothing. I know nothing about repair possibilities but I'm kind of thinking it might be as simple as a thermocouple. But what is a service call going to run me? I'm guessing $50 for the part and $200 for the service? If the unit needs to be replaced I'm hoping that they would just charge me to install a new one and not for the service inspection? I'm the type of person that would _much_ rather do repairs myself. The issue is that the copper lines are soldered. I don't have a torch and no experience but I suspect this would not cost much. Other than that it's just a matter of screwing on to the vent and the gas line. It just kills me that I'd need to pay someone $250 for 30 minutes of work that I could probably do but if it can be repaired I'd rather pay $250 rather then $800-$900. Of course I also need to consider that the current heater has a 6 year warranty and is at least 7 years old (probably 8 years old).
So here is my situation... I _need_ to have a new water heater tomorrow (I'm not a polar bear). I would not be able to repair the unit myself so I'd need to call someone in. If I do that and it can't be repaired it might make financial sense to just pay them to install a new one. The other option is that I could buy a new one and try installing it myself. This is an option as I might end up replacing it in 3 years anyway.
I'll take some pictures in a few hours and post them.
Input? Recommendations? Thoughts? |
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| When I had to have my 15 month old Kenmore electric unit repaired it was like $126 for new thermostat. This included a new 1 year service contract. Think the bill would have been higher if I didn't do the contract go figure. Sears did the work. BTW
Given yours is much older that might not be an option. |
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garys_2kPremium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI | reply to tcope
Look on Angie's List or call some neighbors who have had plumbing work done to get a contractor. Have the contractor come in and ask for an estimate to repair (it may be a simple pilot thermocouple) and replace. Go from there. |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | said by garys_2k:Look on Angie's List or call some neighbors who have had plumbing work done to get a contractor. Have the contractor come in and ask for an estimate to repair (it may be a simple pilot thermocouple) and replace. Go from there. Plumber coming out for free to tell me what needs to be done? I can't see that as a possiblity.
The situation I have is if I spend $250 (?) to have it repaired and if it can't be repaired, roll that into an $800 replacement or perhaps I just spend $600 on a new one and install it myself. I'm really starting to think I can install it myself without any issues. Only thing new to me with be soldering the solid pipes. But I really think I'd not have a problem with that.
If I call someone to look at it I'm for paying them for whatever needs to be done. I'd not mind this if it were a $250 repair but I really don't want to pay someone to install a new heater. I'm weighing this against that the heater should probably be replaced in 3 years or so anyway. |
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 CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | It should not cost $250 to have someone look at it- they should be able to determine if it is fixable before they do any work.
--
Brian
"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | said by CylonRed:It should not cost $250 to have someone look at it- they should be able to determine if it is fixable before they do any work. I'd think if anyone came out... I'd be billed for something regardless of what was done. I can't imagine I could have a plumber come out, tell me it needed to be replaced and me being able to send him on his way with no money in his pocket. If that is the case I'd either be on the hook for a repair bill (fine with me) or I'd be on the hook for a replacement bill (not so fine with this). |
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CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | I never said it would be free - though I would bet that if it was fixable they would not charge anything to come out a trouble shoot it.
I merely said it should not cost $250 to have someone to look at it and determine if it is fixable or not.
quote:
The situation I have is if I spend $250 (?) to have it repaired and if it can't be repaired,
From the above - it seems you are expecting a $250 charge to have someone look at it (and NOT determine if it was fixable) and then they try and fix it and it can't be.
When I had plumbers come out and look at my softener - we spent about an hour discussing the problem and I decided to replace it. I was not charged anything since I was replacing it.
The other point was that they should be able to determine if it was fixable before you commit to fixing it. If they are unsure - then you will know that ahead of time.
Generally - a fee to look at something is charged if no work is done - it is not fixed or replaced then expect a fee. The fee should be less than $100 for most places.
A friend of mine is a master plumber - he owns his own his own shop - and he does free estimates/troubleshooting all of the time.
--
Brian
"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain |
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| reply to tcope
Just did a quick Google for water heater repairs in Sandy, UT .
Found more than a few companies advertizing free estimates .
Unless prices there are way out of whack from around here , you should be locking at around 20 to 50 max for the part , and a maximum of 1/2 hr to install .
There are other things that could cause the same problem , but if the tech has any skills at all it should not take him more than 15 to 30 min to determine the issue . Does not sound like you have one of the modern , ultra high efficiency , water heaters , so we are not looking at anything close to a complex device 
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | reply to tcope
I'm an IDIOT! A happy idiot but a BIG IDIOT!
I went home over lunch to take another look at the heater (and to get some photos). I turned the pilot light switch from off to pilot and then pressed down. No spark (yup, error). Tried a few more times and nothing. Read the directions again and something cause my eye. It stated to turn the pilot switch to pilot and then press the gas switch and watch for the spark.
Yes.... I thought depressing the pilot light switch created the spark. It's actually another button that is pressed! Pressing the pilot switch down just starts the flow of gas to the tube. I did it correctly and it started right up. I turned the gas dial up and the burner ignited! Everything is fine.
Arrggg, I'm soooo embarrassed!
I wanted to thank everyone that took their time to read my post and thank those that responded.
(I tried to upload a photo but it would not work) |
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 HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | How did you re-light it a year ago ? You also have to determine why the pilot went out. We have a gas fireplace in the living room and if the ceiling fan is on high or it's real windy outside, someone leaving the front door open can cause it to blow out. Not sure if something like that could be the cause for your water heater. |
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 tp0dyabbazooiePremium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
kudos:4 | Send some pics of yer current heater so we can see how old it is, and I can prolly tell you how to clean it so you dont have any more pilot outages.. The pilot is going out for a reason..
-j
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if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!) |
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HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | My pilot isn't going out |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | reply to Hall
said by Hall:How did you re-light it a year ago ? You also have to determine why the pilot went out. A year ago.... I lit it the correct way.
Got home today and it was out again. But I had placed the plastic screen back on. I took and left it off last time and also used a bottle brush to clean things out a little. That worked there but it appears the same issue might be starting up again. |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | reply to tp0d
Thanks... as it appears I'm still having issues. |
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HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | reply to tcope
You mentioned fixing things yourself so if it's just the thermocouple that needs replaced, it's certainly a manageable job. The part is less than $10 (thermocouples are quite often universal nowadays).
It does sound like you're not getting enough air flow or fresh air since when you leave off the filter, it seems to work okay. Where is the water heater located ? It MIGHT be okay to leave that off. |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | said by Hall:You mentioned fixing things yourself so if it's just the thermocouple that needs replaced, it's certainly a manageable job. The part is less than $10 (thermocouples are quite often universal nowadays).
It does sound like you're not getting enough air flow or fresh air since when you leave off the filter, it seems to work okay. Where is the water heater located ? It MIGHT be okay to leave that off. I've attempted to locate parts in the past and it was difficult. Also, I was fighting the clock this time. I could not be without hot water.
My images still don't want to upload from the computer I'm currently using to I've posted there here:
»plus.google.com/photos/100796696···82903889
If I had to guess I thing it might be one of two things. The pilot light assembly might just need to be replaced or I recall that the gas company changed it's mixture about a year ago. People were told that they should have their furnaced checked and adjusted. Perhaps this is causing me grief with the water heater pilot light.
I checked the heater when I got home and the pilot was out. I relit it. I checked it this morning and it was work. I checked it an hour later as I was leaving and it was out.
I'm no longer convinced it's an air flow issue. I had removed the plastic screen and also left the closet door open a little and it still went out. |
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| OK looks like you have a Sears 153.336401HA .
This is a link to the owners manual and parts list:
»www.managemylife.com/mmh/lis_pdf···4029.pdf
They are showing the pilot assembly as a complete assembly , and that might be best in this case .
Sears part number is 9003531
This is the same part number that is used on Reliance water heaters , and looks to be the same part .
The odds are Reliance made that water heater for Sears . |
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 ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA | reply to tcope
MrFixIt posted the part number you need. I just looked it up at Sears Parts Direct and it is $62 for the entire assembly. I say just replace the whole thing and be done with it. |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | reply to MrFixit1
Sweet! Thanks!
Since parts can be replaced, the assembly much be able to be removed. I'm going to work on that this weekend and clean it up. If that does not work, I'll order the piolot light (I only found the pilot for around $53 that applied in my case).
I feel much better now. My brother is coming in town in 3 weeks and I'd like to have the heater in good working order by then. I'll also drain some more water this weekend to make sure all of the crud is off the bottom. |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | reply to tcope
I think I have the problem licked... at least for awhile. I checked the burner again before going to bed. Pilot was out. I tried restarting it. It would light while I was pressing the button but as soon as I let go it went out. I finally said to heck with it, disconnected it and removed the burner assembly. I figured the thermocoplar might have gone out so I looked it over. I then saw a small connection with some thin wires. One of them had become detached. So the thermocopler would not work. I soldered it back on and tried to light it again. No problems! So I'll check it in the morning but I have little doubt that this was the problem. The heat just finally melted away the soldered wires.
My terrible solder work
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