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Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
kudos:1
reply to WiMax

Re: Start payments

Errr initially I was paying through my online bill payments, not sure why you couldn't? I switched to PAP because Start has earned my trust and respect.



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
reply to WiMax

Is the debit thing Start's problem, or is it your financial institutions problem? As far as I know only the big banks offer Interac Online payments. I could be wrong though.
--
Tom



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to WiMax

said by WiMax:

Might I suggest that as an option for those of us that deal with CASH, allow the agent to open a new customer account, give them a cus# and then they can go to their online bank and do a "bill payment".

The only problem with that is it takes 2-3 days for that money to be received, and believe it or not, most of the banks and credit unions still use FAX to send these payments so it has to be reconciled, etc, and can't be built into an automated process. Our system isn't perfect and I realize there is some portion of people that deal with cash but we work with what we have.

We have lots of people that call, signup, say they'll make an online payment through their bank and it never comes, several unanswered calls to the customer later and we close things off.

said by WiMax:

That brings up one last question. If you do not pay transaction fees to receive "bill payment" via electronic banking, can Start offer me a monthly discount equivalent to the credit/debit transaction fees it would save? I always ask for cash discounts because prices are inflated to cover these fees. Customers that pay cash should receive a cash discount because it saves the vendor that fee that would then be pure profit for the vendor.

Unfortunately all transactions have fees these days, they get us one way or another. Really though, even cash has an expense because it is considerably more manual.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to TLS2000

said by TLS2000:

Is the debit thing Start's problem, or is it your financial institutions problem? As far as I know only the big banks offer Interac Online payments. I could be wrong though.

It's between Interac and the banks, who's to blame between them I'm not sure. AFAIK, Interac is the only processor that allows debit card payments at all. We added it maybe a year ago to help enable a way for a larger percentage of people to get setup in real-time that didn't have credit cards.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed

That's the point I'm trying to make though. The OP shouldn't be upset that Start isn't offering options when it's the banks that restrict it. It's great that Start is even offering that option when most places don't bother.
--
Tom


Guru

join:2008-10-01
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to rocca

said by rocca:

Unfortunately all transactions have fees these days, they get us one way or another. Really though, even cash has an expense because it is considerably more manual.

+1 Well explained. That's what people don't understand.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

said by elitefx:

Pay everything by cash, always have done.

I go to the bank every month with my paper bill and pay cash.

If a company won't send me a bill I can pay at the bank I give my business to someone else even if they cost more.

I think I saw you at my local BMO last week with I think a Bell telephone bill and some cash.

For me its a convenience factor...I am not a huge fan of pre-authorized payments, but I'd never be able to get to a bank before it closes.

I'll live with it though. Some people don't, and that's the indirect price Start and others pay for not having those options available. Which again its completely up to them.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

If a Bell bill ever touches my skin again shoot me.

With usage based billing on the internet or cell or any other thing I have never paid a cent more than I've used.

If they balk I cancel and move to another provider.



nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

said by peterboro:

If a Bell bill ever touches my skin again shoot me.

With usage based billing on the internet or cell or any other thing I have never paid a cent more than I've used.

If they balk I cancel and move to another provider.

LOL, maybe it was the hydro bill? ...Can't escape the hydro company...unless you put up your own solar panels...or have a large enough waterfall to power your house in your backyard amongst the cars...or....enough land to put up some wind turbines to really tick the neighbours off

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by nitzguy:

Can't escape the hydro company...or have a large enough waterfall to power your house in your backyard amongst the cars...

The 15 cars are supposedly in the front yard and if they have diesel engines I'll hook generators to them and power the whole neighbourhood.

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to nitzguy

said by nitzguy:

said by peterboro:

If a Bell bill ever touches my skin again shoot me.

With usage based billing on the internet or cell or any other thing I have never paid a cent more than I've used.

If they balk I cancel and move to another provider.

LOL, maybe it was the hydro bill? ...Can't escape the hydro company...unless you put up your own solar panels...or have a large enough waterfall to power your house in your backyard amongst the cars...or....enough land to put up some wind turbines to really tick the neighbours off

I'm pretty sure that doesn't matter. you'll still be charge that recovery fee or whatever it's called, even if you weren't on the grid and were able to generate power for yourself.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to df909

said by df909:

said by agtle :

The BMO card that Davesnothere See Profile talks about is specifically marketed for travel and I can testify that it allows recurring charges, hotels, car rentals, etc. Never had any problem at all.

I'm not sure why it would work, seeing they (BMO) explicitly say it won't.

»www.bmo.com/pdf/BMO_Prepaid_Trav···t_EN.pdf

Section 3, Page 2 of the agreement for this card states the following:

"You must not use your card to make pre-authorized recurring payments."

Then if you keep reading into Section 4, it details how you shouldn't use this card in places like hotels and car rentals, etc.

 
Interesting find !

I have not tried to use that card for PAPs so far, so have not noticed what would happen if I did.

But it works fine at START's web payment page.

And that last part about not for hotels and car rentals ?

Well WTF do they EXPECT that travellers would WANT to do with a card called 'Travel' ?!

Anyway, so far, so good, for me.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

4 edits
reply to TypeS

said by TypeS:

said by Davesnothere:

The OP did not state at which bank they bank, but START's Interac support includes BMO and the OP seems to bank elsewhere than at one of the 'Big 4'.

Not to nitpick here, but technically it's the Big 5 Canadian banks , not sure why they wouldn't accept from CIBC....

said by rocca:

We support pre-authorized payments [PAPs] from any bank or credit union in Canada.

The 'Initial Payment' page supports Interac online debit for real-time payment and the 4 banks are the only ones supported.

I don't know why CIBC isn't part of the program, but that's something between Interac and CIBC and we're a little too small to influence them to settle whatever their spat is about. ....

 
I had not reviewed exactly which 4 banks those were, but now that you mention it, I can tell you most likely why CIBC in particular is not listed.

It would appear that they have opted out, and I will update this post in a few moments with a possible reason....

UPDATE :

If you go HERE »www.start.ca/services/payment , and click on 'Debit', which is where you would go to make an online payment which is NOT the Initial one, it seems that CIBC is missing there TOO.

"Why is that important ?", some may ask.

Because I submit that it is 'the thin end of the wedge', regarding changes to online payment systems.

Here is my experience :

Recently, TD intro'd a new customer 'Access' card which bragged about 'VISA Debit' capabilities.

I was briefly influenced to get one at my branch, because the chip in my current card had mysteriously failed.

The local TD teller assured me that EVERYTHING ELSE about this new card which supported 'VISA Debit' would work the same.

She was WRONG.

First, the VISA number part of it (which is really an alias for an attached bank account where you must first put money) was not accepted by START's page which I linked above, and second, when I tried to use the Interac Online method, it sent me to the TD online banking site when I clicked thru, but the TD site rejected the new card.

"And why does any of that matter ?", you may wonder.

OK, when I called START's accounting dept to tell them that, and to try to run the card over the phone, they explained that this new TD card had already been giving START some issues.

START's rep also said to me that they had had THE SAME ISSUES with a CIBC 'chameleon' banking card which functioned similarly to my new TD card (and which had been offered as far back as 2010, I later discovered).

Next, I called TD's CS number, and they explained to me that in order for their new card to support the VISA Debit payment network, that they had to remove the Interac Online payment network functionality, due to some 'banking association' regulation.

It is likely that CIBC ran into these same issues earlier on, and chose to handle them by eventually advising merchants and POS providers that their cards would not work for Interac Online any more (though at one point in the past, I recall that CIBC's bank cards DID work for that), and THAT is why you do not see their logo on online payment pages such as START's.

OTOH, a preauthorized payment (PAP) does not use Interac Online, as it is a direct arrangement between a customer, a payee, and their two respective banks, and that is why it can be more flexible, as Mr. Rocca commented earlier.

BTW, that same START rep advised me to consider the BMO card, as it had caused them no grief so far. - It was good advice, IMNSHO.

Also, I was able to get another of the older TD customer cards again, by pleading my case to our branch manager (she still had some left, unknown to the other local employees and the TD call centre), though she told me that at some point, that ALL of TD's customers would be forced to make the change. - I'm not holding my breath on THAT.

And fine print on TD's website DOES explain that the new card behaves as it does/doesn't, though of course does not present the change as a negative thing.

PREDICTION :

IF this US-based payment system called 'VISA Debit' catches on (as TD assured me that it will ), soon THEIR logo will ALSO vanish from the INTERAC part of online payment pages, as they will not want to have folks 'going thru the motions' in a futile manner as I explained above that I had.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

 
And now you know.... the REST of the story !



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to Davesnothere

Thanks. For what it's worth, we were able to get the TD Debit Visa card added to our merchant account and can run those cards now.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

 
K00L !



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to rocca

said by rocca:

Thanks. For what it's worth, we were able to get the TD Debit Visa card added to our merchant account and can run those cards now.

 
So when TD forces these new cards on all of their customers at some point (which my branch manager told me will happen), START will be ready.

I wonder how many OTHER Canadian merchants even KNOW about this new scheme to which TD has just made a change of PoS loyalty, and whether and/or how long before the rest of the Canadian 'Big 5' banks embrace what amounts to 'corporate Point-of-Sale treason' ?

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

Crashrun2003

join:2013-02-10
reply to rocca

Merchants have to have the TD Visa Debit card added? That explains why most places dont take it as a Visa. Seems silly to me. Should either work as a Visa normally does, or not at all.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits

said by Crashrun2003:

Merchants have to have the TD Visa Debit card added? That explains why most places dont take it as a Visa. Seems silly to me. Should either work as a Visa normally does, or not at all.

 
I fully agree.

The onus should NOT be on each merchant to call their PoS provider and ask to add it.

But MY experience shows that it IS that way, and START's above example bears this out.

AND, as I posted above somewhere, the bank (and all of their allegedly 'valued' customers) must give up Interac Online (a Canadian company) functionality in order to include VISA Debit (and just GUESS where VISA is based ?) functionality.

WE, the customers were NOT asked nor consulted by the banks about what we though about the idea of them making this change.

Typical - THEY know what's best for US !

DeViLzzz

join:2004-07-29
Sarnia, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

1 edit

Sorry but for the people that can't get a Visa or could not get one at one point this TD Visa Debit card was a life saver. It allowed me to buy so much online that I could not before. It was a great addition by TD Canada Trust and I hate defending them cuz they charge such huge fees for banking if you don't carry certain balances or are not a senior. This Visa Debit card is the one thing they do right for the customer without it costing us anything.

However certain sites haven't caught up yet and it is frustrating like when I was unable to buy my birth certificate documents I needed. It did not accept the TD Visa Debit card as a bank card.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by rocca:

Thanks. For what it's worth, we were able to get the TD Debit Visa card added to our merchant account and can run those cards now.

 
So when TD forces these new cards on all of their customers at some point (which my branch manager told me will happen), START will be ready.

I wonder how many OTHER Canadian merchants even KNOW about this new scheme to which TD has just made a change of PoS loyalty, and whether and/or how long before the rest of the Canadian 'Big 5' banks embrace what amounts to 'corporate Point-of-Sale treason' ?

This only affects online and telephone transactions. Retail POS systems in Canada will not accept Visa Debit. They must be run through as Interac when presented at a retailer.

DeViLzzz

join:2004-07-29
Sarnia, ON
reply to WiMax

On this whole subject of payments I am tired of companies forcing us into pre-authorized payments and also not allowing us to switch billing dates.



andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

said by DeViLzzz:

On this whole subject of payments I am tired of companies forcing us into pre-authorized payments and also not allowing us to switch billing dates.

I wont deal with anyone who does that. Bell requires it and they scam extra money all the time so I left them.My auto insurance requires it but they supply me with a list of withdrawl amounts for the year.No changes

Guru

join:2008-10-01
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to DeViLzzz

said by DeViLzzz:

not allowing us to switch billing dates.

This I don't like either. IMHO, I don't see a big deal as many of you are making. This is 2013, not 1960....

People who complains, use up all their CC and happily paying INTEREST RATES but won't use it to make their life easier... LOL


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to DeViLzzz

said by DeViLzzz:

....It did not accept the TD Visa Debit card as a bank card.

 
That's because TD gave up the Interac Online functionality (in their new access cards) as I explained in earlier posts, and the Gov't site needed that.

The BMO Travel Mastercard (a very affordable reloadable prepaid card) does not compromise the functionality of their bank card/accounts in order to be a credit card, as it is a standalone card.

I also have posted before about it (maybe in the current thread, but certainly in others), and that I am quite satisfied with it.

TD and RBC do not offer such cards, and I don't think that CIBC does either, as they did the VISA debit thing before TD did - not sure about Scotiabank.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to yyzlhr

said by yyzlhr:

said by Davesnothere:

So when TD forces these new cards on all of their customers at some point (which my branch manager told me will happen), START will be ready.

I wonder how many OTHER Canadian merchants even KNOW about this new scheme to which TD has just made a change of PoS loyalty, and whether and/or how long before the rest of the Canadian 'Big 5' banks embrace what amounts to 'corporate Point-of-Sale treason' ?

This only affects online and telephone transactions. Retail POS systems in Canada will not accept Visa Debit. They must be run through as Interac when presented at a retailer.

 
Correct (so far).

mlord

join:2006-11-05
Nepean, ON
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to MichelR

said by MichelR:

I've had credit cards for 23 years and have always paid my bill as soon as I received it (be it in paper or electronic form).

Speaking of which, here's a tip that some of you may find useful:

I have a savings account and two credit cards with CIBC.

Over a decade ago, I called in and arranged to have the credit card balances automatically paid from my savings account on the due dates each month. It took a bit of discussion to get this to happen, but they agreed and set it up that way.

Now I never miss paying the monthly balance in full on-time each month, because it happens automatically. Just like pretty much all of the other monthly bills.

Cheers