dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
2247
share rss forum feed


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to printscreen

Re: Supplying water to a refrigerator

That pipe could be your main grounding electrode (it should be). You'll want a continuous metal connection.
I think you'd be nuts to use sharkbite or compression fittings in the soil.

Regardless of what type of joint, I'd place a valve box (they are cheap). Bottom it with pea gravel. That way all you have to do is pop the lid to shut off the valve.

Have a plumber solder in a shutoff valve for icemaker line.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC

The main ground electrode is a copper rod at the electric meter box. Water piping is not customarily used for main grounding here in PR.

I was considering putting a shutoff valve here but I think I won't and only put one inside behind the refrigerator. I would have put a valve box here if went with that. My main shutoff is inside one.



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting

PR supposedly uses the NEC, although on my visit, I found the electrical work there often to be, to put it nicely, "lacking". Yeah, I go places and look at the wiring. It's a curse.

A single ground rod isn't an adequate grounding electrode. The pipe is a far superior electrode, with the rod being secondary.

If you only have 1 ground rod, you should consider bonding to the water pipe (which is required by code anyway) or at the very least driving another 8' ground rod at least 6' from the existing. This isn't anything new. This is the bare minimum.

You can a valve box for cheap at Lowe's Depot (less than $20). I think it would be nice to have a way to cut off the smaller line at the source for maintenance and repairs.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC

The water piping here is not connected to anything electric other than the clothes dryer chassis ground and this is quite some distance away from this location. There are probably another 40 feet of piping in the ground from the location of the dryer to this union. And by the way, there is another ground rod at the electrical panel of a detached garage.

This house is nearing 60 years of age and I don't know what were the requirements back then. I have plans to hire someone to redo all the electrical system in the house in the future and who ever does this will surely have take it into consideration given that the power company won't reconnect until a licensed electrician certifies the work.

Anyhow... just for safety... is it ok to bond both sides of a SharkBite fitting to provide this ground continuity? Like putting a clamp on each leg in the pipe shown in the picture and put a heavy gauge wire between them? This is something I can do easily.



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

It's perfectly fine to jump around it.



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC
reply to printscreen

Click for full size
The OD looks like being around 5/8" and according to this »www.engineeringtoolbox.com/astm-···779.html that would be a 1/2" pipe.


printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

PR supposedly uses the NEC, although on my visit, I found the electrical work there often to be, to put it nicely, "lacking". Yeah, I go places and look at the wiring. It's a curse.

I am curious about your visit. How long ago and where did you go?

tberg

join:2001-08-23
Greenville, SC
reply to printscreen

Yes 5/8" OD soft copper is the same size as 1/2" ID hard copper and that's the size of the 1/2" Shark Bite connectors.



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC
reply to printscreen

I just went to the big box store to find the parts I need for this project before I make the final decision of what exactly I will do inside. I noticed that the 1/4" OD copper tube I found there is labeled for refrigeration. Is there any difference with the ones labeled for water and other uses (type L I believe)? Is it OK to use that tube for this? Not yet decided if I use 3/8" OD (1/4 nominal size) or 1/4" OD for this. The small diameter pipe would go from the valve placed outside to the back of the refrigerator.



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC
reply to tberg

said by tberg:

Yes 5/8" OD soft copper is the same size as 1/2" ID hard copper and that's the size of the 1/2" Shark Bite connectors.

Indeed, I confirmed that during my visit to the big box store. The 1/2" SharkBite fittings are the ones I need.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to printscreen

said by printscreen:

I noticed that the 1/4" OD copper tube I found there is labeled for refrigeration. Is there any difference with the ones labeled for water and other uses (type L I believe)? Is it OK to use that tube for this?

Yes, it is OK to use refrigeration tubing. The main difference is the difference in measuring. Refrigeration tubing is measured OD while plumbing is typically measured ID. I would be cautious if the run is very long as 1/"4 OD is pretty small. Probably OK for an ice maker but I won't want it that small for a water dispenser if the line is very long.


printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR

About 20 feet with four 90 degree bends. The refrigerator has a built-in filter. Probably too long for this diameter?



Jtmo
Premium
join:2001-05-20
Novato, CA
reply to printscreen

Might I suggest when you rebury this that you lay a piece of clay roof tile upside down over it? It might prevent a shovel 'accident' someday since it is so shallow.


dick white
Premium
join:2000-03-24
Annandale, VA
reply to printscreen

Why not put a 1/2" T at this spot and run regular 1/2" pipe around to the kitchen wall and then drop down to the smaller tubing through the wall and to the fridge. That will keep full pressure for the majority of the run and the shortest length of pressure-reducing small tubing.

dw



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC

said by dick white:

Why not put a 1/2" T at this spot and run regular 1/2" pipe around to the kitchen wall and then drop down to the smaller tubing through the wall and to the fridge. That will keep full pressure for the majority of the run and the shortest length of pressure-reducing small tubing.

dw

Two reasons. First is that I would have to drill a 3/4" hole through a 6 inch concrete wall in a place with high probability of hitting a steel bar and I don't have the needed tools for that. I do have for doing a 3/8" hole which I have done before for getting coax cables through walls. Second is that part of the run around the doorway will be visible and the bigger the pipe the uglier it will look. Chipping a groove on the ceramic tile floor and underlying concrete is not an option as I said previously in the thread.

A 3/8" OD pipe seems like a good trade-off between ease of installation, looks and pressure drop. The 1/4"OD would be better for looks but not sure if the needed run is too long for this application.


printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC

Something that may have been lost in the discussion is that this is not your average American wood frame and drywall house. This is a concrete and cement block house typical of what you find here in PR and the pipe will be placed on the surface of the wall. There is no way to place it inside the wall without major chipping. There is one wall penetration where the pipe enters the house and it happens to be next to a door where the wall is solid reinforced concrete and not cement block like would be in the middle of the wall which would be a breeze to drill through. The pipe will be exposed and only hidden in one part behind a pantry cabinet and the refrigerator itself.


dick white
Premium
join:2000-03-24
Annandale, VA
reply to printscreen

Ok, I now "see" (in my mind's eye) where the 20' of smaller tubing is going to be. I initially thought most of that was to be outside before drilling the wall and only a short jump inside. Either way, consider running full 1/2" pipe to just outside the wall and put on a step-down adapter at that point for the final run through the 3/8" hole you'll put in the wall rather than tapping off the smaller tubing at the joint you've uncovered further out in the yard. Keeps the pressure drop from the smaller tubing at a minimum.

dw



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC

Most of it will be inside. Outside I will only have a riser to the height above the door and then go through the wall. The riser will be close to 8 feet. My plan is to put a SharkBite 1/2 slip tee (cannot use the regular tee due to having to cut about 2 1/2 inches to remove the existing union) and on the leg put a 1/2" ball valve. After the valve then goes the reduction to the smaller pipe using compression fittings from there on. My big concern was how to tap into the existing pipe and I will use the SB fittings for that.


WareWolF2k

join:2000-11-14
Allentown, PA

All of the piping inside your refrigerator is 1/4" and there is typically a pretty long coil of it near the bottom of the fridge to ensure you get nice cold water from the dispenser. Having 20, 40, or even 80 feet or so of 1/4" pipe from here to the outside junction is not going cause you to "lose pressure". The water dispenser is not going to fill your glasses at high speed anyway or you would have water spilling all over the place, you don't need to worry about water pressure in this application.



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC

Good point.

Just today I purchased all the needed materials for this little project. I went with the 3/8 inch OD mostly for the mechanical strength since the smaller pipe looks a bit flimsy to me for exposed installation. Probably it isn't but still. I will work with it in the coming days.