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SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Smart meter coming

This will be interesting. Just got a letter from PECO the local electric utility that we'll be getting new meters in the next 2 months.

My bill can't go any higher. could it?

Expand your moderator at work


dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Cincinnati Bell
·ViaTalk
reply to SparkChaser

Re: Smart meter coming

I have heard stories about people bill going up when changing over to smart meters.

They did mine maybe spring/summer 2011 bill did remain about the same for me.

Well I guess I should say my usage remained about the same.



John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
reply to SparkChaser

Are they still catching on fire? That was big news before I moved down here from the land of PECO this past fall.
--
So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time...



tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
reply to dcurrey

said by dcurrey:

I have heard stories about people bill going up when changing over to smart meters.

I think the worst billing horror stories were net metering customers. Apparently some of the smart meters did not pay attention to energy flow direction so charged both for energy consumed and energy delivered to the grid.

There is a petition floating around NH to ban smart meters due to radiation fears. As John97 See Profile posted there were problems with fire, and there are legitimate privacy and eavesdropping concerns but fears about the radio are way over the top. Smart meters may also bring time-of-day pricing to residential customers, not sure how I feel about that. Peaking electricity is much more expensive then base load and commercial customers already have to deal with that type of pricing.

/tom


Raphion

join:2000-10-14
Samsara
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to SparkChaser

I'm on my second smart meter already in FP&L territory. They put in some cheap looking one last year, then came out last month and put in a nicer looking one.

I wonder how long they'll go before they decide to change it again. haha

I like the new one, it shows the current power draw and voltage, as well as being two-way, thus compatible with solar systems pushing power back into the grid.

This one has a radio too, I don't think the older one did.

I just hope the jaws in my 1950's meter pan are still ok after the double meter swap.



seaquake
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-23
Millersville, MD
reply to SparkChaser

We actually saved a chunk of money during the switch-over. One bill they estimated after the switch and it was substantially lower than it should have been. Figured they would catch it the next month but they didn't. My guess is the lost the last reading of the analog meter and couldn't reconcile the energy used.


devicenull
Premium
join:2002-12-01
Old Bridge, NJ
reply to SparkChaser

I wish they would get around to doing that here. As far as I can tell, they don't even do remote read here, as every other month we get an 'estimated' bill instead of an actual one. If it just involved someone driving through to read all the meters, I'm pretty sure they'd get someone to drive through the 300+ unit apartment complex I live in.


wheeled

join:2004-12-31
Edmonton, AB

1 edit
reply to SparkChaser

If you follow the link you will see some of the issues we are having with our metering in Canada. the comments are also a good read.

»www.castanet.net/edition/news-st···tm#88122

»www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/88···protests



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to John97

said by John97:

Are they still catching on fire? That was big news before I moved down here from the land of PECO this past fall.

I hope not. They had a big replacement project and weren't doing new installs until that was done. (or so they say )

We been on remote read for years, same with water.
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Cogeco Cable
reply to wheeled

said by wheeled:

If you follow the link you will see some of the issues we are having with our metering in Canada. the comments are also a good read.

»www.castanet.net/edition/news-st···tm#88122

This link has nothing to do with smart meters.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:2
reply to SparkChaser

No increase in bill due to smart meter here.

It's very nice actually. I can monitor my usage on the state website.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to tschmidt

said by tschmidt:

There is a petition floating around NH to ban smart meters due to radiation fears. As John97 See Profile posted there were problems with fire, and there are legitimate privacy and eavesdropping concerns but fears about the radio are way over the top.

Do you have a phone number to voice a concern? I just need to go grab my cell phone or cordless phone. Or maybe a webpage where I can use my laptop via wifi...

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to SparkChaser

We discuss this quite often in CanChat and the consensus is that unless you are hyper vigilant about your time of use you will pay the same or more. It's a money grad pure and simple wrapped up as an eco friendly initiative. »Does anyone here have a Hydro Smart Meter ?


AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to tschmidt

said by tschmidt:

said by dcurrey:

I have heard stories about people bill going up when changing over to smart meters.

I think the worst billing horror stories were net metering customers. Apparently some of the smart meters did not pay attention to energy flow direction so charged both for energy consumed and energy delivered to the grid.

There is a petition floating around NH to ban smart meters due to radiation fears. As John97 See Profile posted there were problems with fire, and there are legitimate privacy and eavesdropping concerns but fears about the radio are way over the top. Smart meters may also bring time-of-day pricing to residential customers, not sure how I feel about that. Peaking electricity is much more expensive then base load and commercial customers already have to deal with that type of pricing.

/tom

They emit no more that portable phones, WiFi routers, cell phones, etc.

I always chuckle at the privacy and eavesdropping. They have TOD patterns. That tells nothing other than overall usage in the home. A peak at noon can mean either I'm doing a load of dishes, or I just fed a quarter in the bedpost.

TOD billing makes you change your habits a bit. It's not a big deal. It means that I have to press the delay buton on my dishwasher after dinner. My bill has gone down after the installation of the meters.

scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2

1 edit

Oh yes - my whole electric plan is built on that principle about TOU Demand. What really kills is what they call the Peak Demand - the number of watts used in the highest 15 minutes of the on-peak rate period. I've taken care that I have a timer on my electric tank water heater to prevent it from coming on during peak times. I'm also careful about how the heat pump operates. It's also why I do laundry on the weekend - when I can run the water heater and the electric clothes dryer anytime for as much time as I need.

OTOH - I'm AVERAGING $60 / month of savings over the usual flat rate for my electric usage. So - it's not all bad...



Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12
reply to SparkChaser

 

I would strongly advise trying to fight having one of these things being installed!



Alot of possible health risks and privacy issues!

»www.smartmeterdangers.org

»www.emfblues.com/Smart-Meters-Dangers.html


Good luck my friend -- Please read these 2 links before discarding them ok?? Im trying to help you!!



Coma
Thanks Steve
Premium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand

1 recommendation

Im trying to help you!!


Sounds like governmental double speak.

--
March is National Noodle Month


Jtmo
Premium
join:2001-05-20
Novato, CA
reply to SparkChaser

Re: Smart meter coming

We all sit here at computers, use cell phones, live near power wires in our walls, use wireless TV's, routers, Xbox etc. and people still worry about the wireless 'radiation' from a meter installed OUTSIDE?

Really? Where is my foil hat......

I think most of the early bugs were worked out in California with some bad meters, my neighbor had a leaking gas smart meter replaced. You can even PG&E Opt-out for a $10 a month charge to have a guy come out and read the meter. The manpower savings, lack of dog bites, lack of having someone enter your back year etc. must be huge.
I like the meter charts, I can tell my gas goes way up when the clothes get dried (gas). Electric spikes at that time also due to the dryer and washer motors.



Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12

 

quote:
You can even PG&E Opt-out for a $10 a month charge to have a guy come out and read the meter.
I believe this is WELL WORTH IT!!! -- Forget the RF risks,IF YOU HAVE ANY ''SMART'' APPLIANCES THEY CAN BE CONTROLLED BY THEM!! (And monitored for usage stats,etc)

Its just another way to get tighter control on people!!


Coma
Thanks Steve
Premium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand
reply to Jtmo

Re: Smart meter coming

said by Jtmo:

Where is my foil hat......


Use mine . . .




--
March is National Noodle Month

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus
reply to SparkChaser

We got smart meters last year and my bill didn't change a bit. I'm still looking forward to our utility making the TOD usage available on its website, but so far no cigar.

As for health concerns, I'm sitting right now about 4 feet from a WiFi access point, so I doubt the fields from the meters are going to be an issue. The privacy thing I just don't get, usage is usage, not WHAT I'm using. Which is less private, having the meter report total usage or having a guy walk onto my property, able to look into my windows, whenever they want?



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
reply to AsherN

said by AsherN:

I always chuckle at the privacy and eavesdropping. They have TOD patterns. That tells nothing other than overall usage in the home. A peak at noon can mean either I'm doing a load of dishes, or I just fed a quarter in the bedpost.

What are you basing your statement on?

»www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html

said by AsherN:

TOD billing makes you change your habits a bit. It's not a big deal.

So you don't mind being inconvenienced just so the shareholders of the electric utilities can take home a few extra pennies this year. That's great but I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the minority here.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

said by pike:

What are you basing your statement on?

»www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html

In order for their experiment to succeed they had to eliminate other sources of variable power consumption (such as additional TV sets or computers) and most importantly had to change the smart meter reading interval to an extremely fine resolution of 2 seconds.

While the smartmeters deployed by PG&E are capable of such fine resolution (up to 1 second) it is not possible to do so for all homes since the generated amount of data would exceed the bandwidth capability of the smart grid.

The normal granularity of electric consumption readings is hourly. There is no way to determine the source of that consumption from small/medium devices and even high power consumers (electric dryer, oven, electric water heater) remain unreliable guesswork.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to tschmidt

said by tschmidt:

There is a petition floating around NH to ban smart meters due to radiation fears.

Gosh, I hope these people stop using their cellphones too!


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to SparkChaser

I would love to see a workable TOU rate. I took a giant hit this year on electric with about a 25% increase. We had, since we bought the house, an electric heating rate. After a certain about of use, your rate went down. They got rid of that this year so our heating bill has sky rocketed. That coupled with retirement is a heavy hitter.

I wear more sweat shirts.

--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift



John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House
·ooma

said by SparkChaser:

I would love to see a workable TOU rate. I took a giant hit this year on electric with about a 25% increase. We had, since we bought the house, an electric heating rate. After a certain about of use, your rate went down. They got rid of that this year so our heating bill has sky rocketed. That coupled with retirement is a heavy hitter.

I wear more sweat shirts.

PECO dropping that all-electric rate discount is a real bitch. I was dreading it, because my electric bills were already insane. Dropping the off-peak meter discount program didn't help either.

I installed a big pellet stove in my fireplace and used it as a primary source of heat. I saved a bunch of money during the 2011-2012 winter.
--
So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time...

Speedy Petey

join:2008-01-19
reply to Dude111

Re:  

said by Dude111:

-- Forget the RF risks,IF YOU HAVE ANY ''SMART'' APPLIANCES THEY CAN BE CONTROLLED BY THEM!! (And monitored for usage stats,etc)

Its just another way to get tighter control on people!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Sale on tinfoil hats. Aisle 7. lol


PSWired

join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD

I think the fact that Dude111 is advocating against them should give us a good idea of the risks

That said, smartmeter security exploits could be pretty nasty. Imagine some stuxnet-style malicious code that cycles the disconnect relay rapidly in all of the meters in a utility's service territory. How long would it take to restore service when everyone's meter contacts are burnt up simultaneously?



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
reply to leibold

Re: Smart meter coming

liebold,

I agree the likelihood of anyone discovering my TV viewing habits (or even caring for that matter) via smart meter is about nil. But to say it's impossible is inaccurate, if not ignorant.

I'm as big a tech nerd as anyone here on DSLR but sometimes even I look at something and have to wonder if we're simply looking for a problem to solve. I don't really see too much of a benefit for the typical residential electric consumer with the smart meter. I think the utility is the real winner here, by eliminating the job of the meter reader and then pocketing that cash as profit. And all the while billing the consumer through PUC approved fees to deploy these new meters.

To be fair, it is nice to have real-time usage stats, but realistically I think those of us who will really use the data already invested in a product like the TED 5000 (I know I did).