 Coma Thanks StevePremium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand | reply to Jtmo
Re: Smart meter coming said by Jtmo:Where is my foil hat......
Use mine . . .
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March is National Noodle Month |
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garys_2kPremium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI Reviews:
 ·callwithus
·Callcentric
| reply to SparkChaser
We got smart meters last year and my bill didn't change a bit. I'm still looking forward to our utility making the TOD usage available on its website, but so far no cigar.
As for health concerns, I'm sitting right now about 4 feet from a WiFi access point, so I doubt the fields from the meters are going to be an issue. The privacy thing I just don't get, usage is usage, not WHAT I'm using. Which is less private, having the meter report total usage or having a guy walk onto my property, able to look into my windows, whenever they want? |
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 pikePremium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3 | reply to AsherN
said by AsherN:I always chuckle at the privacy and eavesdropping. They have TOD patterns. That tells nothing other than overall usage in the home. A peak at noon can mean either I'm doing a load of dishes, or I just fed a quarter in the bedpost.
What are you basing your statement on?
»www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html
said by AsherN:TOD billing makes you change your habits a bit. It's not a big deal.
So you don't mind being inconvenienced just so the shareholders of the electric utilities can take home a few extra pennies this year. That's great but I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the minority here. |
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 leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6
 ·SONIC.NET
| In order for their experiment to succeed they had to eliminate other sources of variable power consumption (such as additional TV sets or computers) and most importantly had to change the smart meter reading interval to an extremely fine resolution of 2 seconds.
While the smartmeters deployed by PG&E are capable of such fine resolution (up to 1 second) it is not possible to do so for all homes since the generated amount of data would exceed the bandwidth capability of the smart grid.
The normal granularity of electric consumption readings is hourly. There is no way to determine the source of that consumption from small/medium devices and even high power consumers (electric dryer, oven, electric water heater) remain unreliable guesswork.
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Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt:There is a petition floating around NH to ban smart meters due to radiation fears.
Gosh, I hope these people stop using their cellphones too! |
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 SparkChaserPremium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to SparkChaser
I would love to see a workable TOU rate. I took a giant hit this year on electric with about a 25% increase. We had, since we bought the house, an electric heating rate. After a certain about of use, your rate went down. They got rid of that this year so our heating bill has sky rocketed. That coupled with retirement is a heavy hitter.
I wear more sweat shirts. 
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift |
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 John97Over The Hills And Far AwayPremium
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL
 ·Bright House
| said by SparkChaser:I would love to see a workable TOU rate. I took a giant hit this year on electric with about a 25% increase. We had, since we bought the house, an electric heating rate. After a certain about of use, your rate went down. They got rid of that this year so our heating bill has sky rocketed. That coupled with retirement is a heavy hitter.
I wear more sweat shirts.
PECO dropping that all-electric rate discount is a real bitch. I was dreading it, because my electric bills were already insane. Dropping the off-peak meter discount program didn't help either.
I installed a big pellet stove in my fireplace and used it as a primary source of heat. I saved a bunch of money during the 2011-2012 winter.
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So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time... |
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| reply to Dude111
Re: said by Dude111: -- Forget the RF risks,IF YOU HAVE ANY ''SMART'' APPLIANCES THEY CAN BE CONTROLLED BY THEM!! (And monitored for usage stats,etc)
Its just another way to get tighter control on people!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Sale on tinfoil hats. Aisle 7. lol |
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PSWired
join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD | I think the fact that Dude111 is advocating against them should give us a good idea of the risks 
That said, smartmeter security exploits could be pretty nasty. Imagine some stuxnet-style malicious code that cycles the disconnect relay rapidly in all of the meters in a utility's service territory. How long would it take to restore service when everyone's meter contacts are burnt up simultaneously? |
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pikePremium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3 | reply to leibold
Re: Smart meter coming liebold,
I agree the likelihood of anyone discovering my TV viewing habits (or even caring for that matter) via smart meter is about nil. But to say it's impossible is inaccurate, if not ignorant.
I'm as big a tech nerd as anyone here on DSLR but sometimes even I look at something and have to wonder if we're simply looking for a problem to solve. I don't really see too much of a benefit for the typical residential electric consumer with the smart meter. I think the utility is the real winner here, by eliminating the job of the meter reader and then pocketing that cash as profit. And all the while billing the consumer through PUC approved fees to deploy these new meters.
To be fair, it is nice to have real-time usage stats, but realistically I think those of us who will really use the data already invested in a product like the TED 5000 (I know I did). |
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| said by pike:liebold,
I agree the likelihood of anyone discovering my TV viewing habits (or even caring for that matter) via smart meter is about nil. But to say it's impossible is inaccurate, if not ignorant. They can already get it from your DVR. TiVo already makes a good bit of money selling data about viewing habits, including what you watch and what you ff/rewind.
I'm as big a tech nerd as anyone here on DSLR but sometimes even I look at something and have to wonder if we're simply looking for a problem to solve. I don't really see too much of a benefit for the typical residential electric consumer with the smart meter. I think the utility is the real winner here, by eliminating the job of the meter reader and then pocketing that cash as profit. And all the while billing the consumer through PUC approved fees to deploy these new meters.
To be fair, it is nice to have real-time usage stats, but realistically I think those of us who will really use the data already invested in a product like the TED 5000 (I know I did).
There's also the ability to remotely manage the network. They can also determine if a power outage has occurred because the meter hasn't reported back. And yes, they can disconnect deadbeats rather easily without risking employees being assaulted by said deadbeats. |
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AsherN
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON | reply to pike
said by pike:said by AsherN:I always chuckle at the privacy and eavesdropping. They have TOD patterns. That tells nothing other than overall usage in the home. A peak at noon can mean either I'm doing a load of dishes, or I just fed a quarter in the bedpost.
What are you basing your statement on? » www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html Tin hat much? First, the interval are longer, second, to analyze TV viewing data, they'd need precise time and light data for every broadcast availabe to me. And if I turn on another TV, or light, it all goes to hell
said by pike:said by AsherN:TOD billing makes you change your habits a bit. It's not a big deal.
So you don't mind being inconvenienced just so the shareholders of the electric utilities can take home a few extra pennies this year. That's great but I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the minority here. DOn't care. I do care about lower bills. inconvinence is a subjective thing. example. My dishwasher has a single 4 hour delay. To start the dishwasher, I need to press 2 buttons. If I press 3, it waits 4 hours to start. I doubt that 3rd press means a whole lot to me. |
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| reply to SparkChaser
We are served by a co-op so the shareholders of our utility are the customers (members, actually). I absolutely want them to save money. We have the lowest rates in the state. |
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TheMGPremium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1 | reply to leibold
said by leibold:In order for their experiment to succeed they had to eliminate other sources of variable power consumption (such as additional TV sets or computers) and most importantly had to change the smart meter reading interval to an extremely fine resolution of 2 seconds. Also I wonder what kind of TV set they were using and how the TV was configured?
An LCD TV with the dynamic contrast feature disabled (such that the backlight remains at a constant level) will have negligible difference in power consumption between a light and dark scene. Too small for a smart meter to measure.
Also, if you get your TV through a set-top-box from a cable/satellite/iptv provider, doesn't the TV service provider already know what you're watching? |
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| reply to pike
said by pike:So you don't mind being inconvenienced just so the shareholders of the electric utilities can take home a few extra pennies this year. That's great but I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the minority here.
Nope. I want people to pay for what they use versus spreading out the cost. Wholesale electricity already has demand billing. |
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 BloggerJedi PosterPremium
join:2012-10-18
·Champion Broadba..
| reply to SparkChaser
When we got them installed at my last residence they were the greatest thing since slice bread. There was NO downside to them. Everything about them was a win-win situation.
I wish I had them at my current residence. (Service is from same provider but they haven't upgraded the technology yet at the current place.)
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The signal is usually drowned out by the noise. |
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 Dude111An Awesome DudePremium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:11 | reply to Speedy Petey
Something you should read my friend
»www.google.com/search?q=cache:ht···ance.pdf
One day someone came home AND THIER HOUSE WAS 80 DEGREES!! (The electric company shut off his air conditioners!)
Really i mean: YOU ARE PAYING THEM,WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO TURN YOUR STUFF OFF?? |
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TheMGPremium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1 | disregard. |
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 shortcktWatchen Das Blinken LightsPremium
join:2000-12-05
Tenant Hell | reply to SparkChaser
Smart meter coming DWP installed them here in December. For years I have kept tabs on my use by reading the meter twice a month and since the digital was installed there hasn't been any unusual change in KWh or the bill, but I wonder if/when they will try to go to time of day billing. That is already an option with this muni power company for customers who want lower rates in some areas.
The POCO might be waiting to do so until they have converted everyone to smart meters, and at this time the tech who installed them said they are still being tested, which explains why only one of ten meters are digital at one of the nearby apartment buildings, and only two of about twelve in another apartment building next door. Also the meters I've seen are not all the same brand and don't display exactly the same info.
The meters installed where I live unfortunately have a five-digit display but don't display less than 1KWh increments and apparently no instantaneous use.
With the old mechanical meters if I wanted to quickly determine a small change in power use I could just count the disk revolutions in a given time. Now I would need to remove all variable loads and take two readings over a number of hours or sufficiently long enough to read a difference when the smallest increment on the display is 1KWh. Maybe when customers get the ability to obtain their readings on the POCO website they might have finer resolution, but for now only direct readings.
All the tin foil hat wearers really crack me up. They're worried about some low power RF transmitter outside your home, and that "they" will profile your appliance usage patterns, which is quite an iffy feat to pull off from a technical viewpoint, yet they walk around with an activated cell phone, possibly even a smart phone in their pocket that is collecting all kinds of juicy bits about their whereabouts, who they communicate with and so forth, not to mention holding an RF radiator up close to their head for minutes (or in my case, hours) at a time when in use! If someone wanted to profile your household habits it would be much easier to observe directly from nearby than by reading iffy power use fluctuations.
I'm more concerned with billing problems, the time of use issue, and someone cracking the SCADA system to screw with customers by shutting the power off.
The gas company here is awaiting PUC approval to put in digital meters and as someone mentioned above, already sent notice that customers can opt out by paying a small monthly charge to keep their old analog meter. Interestingly our POCO has not given customers the choice to opt out. |
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shortcktWatchen Das Blinken LightsPremium
join:2000-12-05
Tenant Hell | reply to Dude111
Oh No!! said by Dude111:Something you should read.... One day someone came home AND THIER HOUSE WAS 80 DEGREES!!....
Not going to bother opening the link to read that, so I'll make an edumacated guess that the customer had signed up for load shedding service in exchange for a lower rate. Our POCO offers that service too. One day the area's consumption was close to 100% and the POCO decided to shed some non-critical loads for awhile so they signalled AC off, consistent with the customer's agreement that allowed it during a power shortage. So what's the mystery? Where's the evil crime? |
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