dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
21
share rss forum feed

AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to tschmidt

Re: Smart meter coming

said by tschmidt:

said by dcurrey:

I have heard stories about people bill going up when changing over to smart meters.

I think the worst billing horror stories were net metering customers. Apparently some of the smart meters did not pay attention to energy flow direction so charged both for energy consumed and energy delivered to the grid.

There is a petition floating around NH to ban smart meters due to radiation fears. As John97 See Profile posted there were problems with fire, and there are legitimate privacy and eavesdropping concerns but fears about the radio are way over the top. Smart meters may also bring time-of-day pricing to residential customers, not sure how I feel about that. Peaking electricity is much more expensive then base load and commercial customers already have to deal with that type of pricing.

/tom

They emit no more that portable phones, WiFi routers, cell phones, etc.

I always chuckle at the privacy and eavesdropping. They have TOD patterns. That tells nothing other than overall usage in the home. A peak at noon can mean either I'm doing a load of dishes, or I just fed a quarter in the bedpost.

TOD billing makes you change your habits a bit. It's not a big deal. It means that I have to press the delay buton on my dishwasher after dinner. My bill has gone down after the installation of the meters.

scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2

1 edit

Oh yes - my whole electric plan is built on that principle about TOU Demand. What really kills is what they call the Peak Demand - the number of watts used in the highest 15 minutes of the on-peak rate period. I've taken care that I have a timer on my electric tank water heater to prevent it from coming on during peak times. I'm also careful about how the heat pump operates. It's also why I do laundry on the weekend - when I can run the water heater and the electric clothes dryer anytime for as much time as I need.

OTOH - I'm AVERAGING $60 / month of savings over the usual flat rate for my electric usage. So - it's not all bad...



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
reply to AsherN

said by AsherN:

I always chuckle at the privacy and eavesdropping. They have TOD patterns. That tells nothing other than overall usage in the home. A peak at noon can mean either I'm doing a load of dishes, or I just fed a quarter in the bedpost.

What are you basing your statement on?

»www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html

said by AsherN:

TOD billing makes you change your habits a bit. It's not a big deal.

So you don't mind being inconvenienced just so the shareholders of the electric utilities can take home a few extra pennies this year. That's great but I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the minority here.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

said by pike:

What are you basing your statement on?

»www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html

In order for their experiment to succeed they had to eliminate other sources of variable power consumption (such as additional TV sets or computers) and most importantly had to change the smart meter reading interval to an extremely fine resolution of 2 seconds.

While the smartmeters deployed by PG&E are capable of such fine resolution (up to 1 second) it is not possible to do so for all homes since the generated amount of data would exceed the bandwidth capability of the smart grid.

The normal granularity of electric consumption readings is hourly. There is no way to determine the source of that consumption from small/medium devices and even high power consumers (electric dryer, oven, electric water heater) remain unreliable guesswork.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

liebold,

I agree the likelihood of anyone discovering my TV viewing habits (or even caring for that matter) via smart meter is about nil. But to say it's impossible is inaccurate, if not ignorant.

I'm as big a tech nerd as anyone here on DSLR but sometimes even I look at something and have to wonder if we're simply looking for a problem to solve. I don't really see too much of a benefit for the typical residential electric consumer with the smart meter. I think the utility is the real winner here, by eliminating the job of the meter reader and then pocketing that cash as profit. And all the while billing the consumer through PUC approved fees to deploy these new meters.

To be fair, it is nice to have real-time usage stats, but realistically I think those of us who will really use the data already invested in a product like the TED 5000 (I know I did).



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

said by pike:

liebold,

I agree the likelihood of anyone discovering my TV viewing habits (or even caring for that matter) via smart meter is about nil. But to say it's impossible is inaccurate, if not ignorant.

They can already get it from your DVR. TiVo already makes a good bit of money selling data about viewing habits, including what you watch and what you ff/rewind.

I'm as big a tech nerd as anyone here on DSLR but sometimes even I look at something and have to wonder if we're simply looking for a problem to solve. I don't really see too much of a benefit for the typical residential electric consumer with the smart meter. I think the utility is the real winner here, by eliminating the job of the meter reader and then pocketing that cash as profit. And all the while billing the consumer through PUC approved fees to deploy these new meters.

To be fair, it is nice to have real-time usage stats, but realistically I think those of us who will really use the data already invested in a product like the TED 5000 (I know I did).

It's about demand pricing. The utility already pays demand pricing and now is looking to pass that along to the consumer. Would that be better than a straight rate increase? I think so. I like the ability to control my cost increase. If that means setting laundry or the dishwasher to run at 2AM, I can do that. Technology makes it all possible.

There's also the ability to remotely manage the network. They can also determine if a power outage has occurred because the meter hasn't reported back. And yes, they can disconnect deadbeats rather easily without risking employees being assaulted by said deadbeats.

AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to pike

said by pike:

said by AsherN:

I always chuckle at the privacy and eavesdropping. They have TOD patterns. That tells nothing other than overall usage in the home. A peak at noon can mean either I'm doing a load of dishes, or I just fed a quarter in the bedpost.

What are you basing your statement on?

»www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html

Tin hat much? First, the interval are longer, second, to analyze TV viewing data, they'd need precise time and light data for every broadcast availabe to me. And if I turn on another TV, or light, it all goes to hell

said by pike:

said by AsherN:

TOD billing makes you change your habits a bit. It's not a big deal.

So you don't mind being inconvenienced just so the shareholders of the electric utilities can take home a few extra pennies this year. That's great but I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the minority here.

DOn't care. I do care about lower bills. inconvinence is a subjective thing. example. My dishwasher has a single 4 hour delay. To start the dishwasher, I need to press 2 buttons. If I press 3, it waits 4 hours to start. I doubt that 3rd press means a whole lot to me.

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to leibold

said by leibold:

said by pike:

What are you basing your statement on?

»www.h-online.com/security/news/i···385.html

In order for their experiment to succeed they had to eliminate other sources of variable power consumption (such as additional TV sets or computers) and most importantly had to change the smart meter reading interval to an extremely fine resolution of 2 seconds.

Also I wonder what kind of TV set they were using and how the TV was configured?

An LCD TV with the dynamic contrast feature disabled (such that the backlight remains at a constant level) will have negligible difference in power consumption between a light and dark scene. Too small for a smart meter to measure.

Also, if you get your TV through a set-top-box from a cable/satellite/iptv provider, doesn't the TV service provider already know what you're watching?


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to pike

said by pike:

So you don't mind being inconvenienced just so the shareholders of the electric utilities can take home a few extra pennies this year. That's great but I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the minority here.

Nope. I want people to pay for what they use versus spreading out the cost. Wholesale electricity already has demand billing.