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UnnDunn
Premium
join:2005-12-21
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Greg2600

Re: Verizon is Offering to Change STB because of Lineup changes

3D does not use double the QAM. 3D uses exactly the same amount of bandwidth as a normal channel.



mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:10
reply to motorola870

said by motorola870:

anyone want to take notes on what QAMs these are on right now?

SCANNING: 651000000 (us-irc:100, us-cable:100)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x247C
PROGRAM 735: 695 Comedy.TV HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 736: 599 Cars.TV HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 737: 558 ES.TV HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 315000000 (us-irc:39, us-cable:39)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x285F
PROGRAM 702: 906 HBO Family HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 705: 924 Action MAX East (encrypted)
PROGRAM 706: 922 More MAX HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 585000000 (us-irc:84, us-cable:84)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2478
PROGRAM 708: 597 World Fishing N (encrypted)
PROGRAM 750: 571 ESPN Buzzer Bea (encrypted)

SCANNING: 291000000 (us-irc:35, us-cable:35)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2823
PROGRAM 694: 907 HBO Family HD ( (encrypted)
PROGRAM 696: 913 HBO Latino HD ( (encrypted)
PROGRAM 698: 905 HBO Signature H (encrypted)

SCANNING: 321000000 (us-irc:40, us-cable:40)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2860
PROGRAM 707: 592 Tennis Channel (encrypted)
PROGRAM 721: 770 BET HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 309000000 (us-irc:38, us-cable:38)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x285E
PROGRAM 701: 902 HBO 2 HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 703: 912 HBO Latino HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 704: 904 HBO Signature H (encrypted)

SCANNING: 171000000 (us-irc:22, us-cable:22)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2807
PROGRAM 673: 921 Cinemax HD West (encrypted)
PROGRAM 693: 903 HBO 2 HD (West) (encrypted)
PROGRAM 700: 923 More MAX HD (We (encrypted)

SCANNING: 657000000 (us-irc:101, us-cable:101)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x247D
PROGRAM 738: 674 My Destination. (encrypted)
PROGRAM 739: 676 Recipe.TV HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 740: 633 Pets.TV HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 273000000 (us-irc:32, us-cable:32)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2820
PROGRAM 688: 911 HBO Zone HD (We (encrypted)
PROGRAM 691: 931 Outer MAX HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 692: 926 Thriller Max HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 255000000 (us-irc:29, us-cable:29)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x281D
PROGRAM 685: 908 HBO Comedy HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 686: 909 HBO Comedy HD ( (encrypted)
PROGRAM 697: 928 Wmax HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 267000000 (us-irc:31, us-cable:31)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x281F
PROGRAM 687: 910 HBO Zone HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 689: 929 At MAX HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 690: 930 Five Star MAX H (encrypted)

SCANNING: 333000000 (us-irc:42, us-cable:42)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x285A
PROGRAM 711: 781 Disney XD HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 712: 744 MGM Channel HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 363000000 (us-irc:47, us-cable:47)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x286F
PROGRAM 722: 867 Showcase HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 818: 1002 ESPN 3D (encrypted)

/M

nowayout

join:2009-06-22
Allentown, PA

1 edit
reply to OwlSaver

So by my math (thanks to mackey) these 20 channels currently use 7.5 QAMs. If they are placed 4:1 in MPEG4, they consume 5 QAMs. Savings: 2.5 QAMs. Space for 10-ish HD mpeg4 channels at 4:1.

If they're placed at 5:1 (some of the sports/foreign ones are), they consume 4 QAMs. Savings of 3.5 QAMs. Space for 17-18 HD mpeg4 channels at 5:1.

(There's no guarantee all new additions will be mpeg4, so this is a theoretical result.)


fishacura

join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA

But even if replacements are not MPEG4 there's still room for 4-6 new channels right?


JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4

said by fishacura:

But even if replacements are not MPEG4 there's still room for 4-6 new channels right?

If my math is right, then even if the new additions are all mpeg-2, they have room for 5 to 10 HD channels. Here's how I did the math. Assume the savings range, as nowayout indicated, is beteen 2.5 and 3.5 QAMs. Given that, they have enough room for:

5 - 7 HD channels if the new channels are mpeg-2, and kept 2/QAM (2*2.5 to 2*3.5).

7 - 10 HD channels if the new channels are mpeg-2, with 3:1 compression (basically 3*2.5 to 3*3.5)


MeatChicken

join:2007-08-15
Paramus, NJ

said by JPL:

said by fishacura:

But even if replacements are not MPEG4 there's still room for 4-6 new channels right?

If my math is right, then even if the new additions are all mpeg-2, they have room for 5 to 10 HD channels. Here's how I did the math. Assume the savings range, as nowayout indicated, is beteen 2.5 and 3.5 QAMs. Given that, they have enough room for:

5 - 7 HD channels if the new channels are mpeg-2, and kept 2/QAM (2*2.5 to 2*3.5).

7 - 10 HD channels if the new channels are mpeg-2, with 3:1 compression (basically 3*2.5 to 3*3.5)

And that assumes there isn't a single current open space available, & I thought there was still enough current existing national QAM space for 3 - 6 HD additions ....

manshow

join:2013-01-23
Washington, DC
reply to Greg2600

said by Greg2600:

Nice, that's 21 channels, 22 really because 3D uses double the QAM. I believe that means freeing of about 5.5 QAM slots? Opening up for an additional 11 channels in MPEG-4.

so 3d uses double the QAM? one QAM equals to 38.8meg. 2 * 38.8 equals 77.6 meg. wow lot of wasted bandwith for one channel that hardly anyone watches.


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16

No, the ESPN 3D channel doesn't use 2 QAM slots...



mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:10

1 edit
reply to manshow

said by manshow:

said by Greg2600:

Nice, that's 21 channels, 22 really because 3D uses double the QAM. I believe that means freeing of about 5.5 QAM slots? Opening up for an additional 11 channels in MPEG-4.

so 3d uses double the QAM? one QAM equals to 38.8meg. 2 * 38.8 equals 77.6 meg. wow lot of wasted bandwith for one channel that hardly anyone watches.

No, it uses 1/2 of 1 QAM, just like a normal HD channel.

To use the ESPN 3D Channel as an example:

SCANNING: 363000000 (us-irc:47, us-cable:47)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x286F
PROGRAM 722: 867 Showcase HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 818: 1002 ESPN 3D (encrypted)

That shows there are 2 channels in the 1 QAM.

tun: ch=qam:363000000 lock=qam256:363000000 ss=100 snq=100 seq=100 dbg=-348/1053
dev: bps=38812224 resync=0 overflow=0
cc: bps=38812224 resync=8 overflow=0
ts: bps=38812224 ut=87 te=0 miss=0 crc=0
flt: bps=16098816
net: pps=0 err=0 stop=0

As you can see, at the instant I looked at it it was using ~16 mbps (the "flt:" line). As the encoding isn't a constant fixed rate, this varies slightly depending on what's going on on the screen.

/M


motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

I am wondering if these changes have to do with Verizon finally having enough stock to supply customers with a MPEG4 QIP (motorola (soon to be arris)) or Cisco MPEG4 boxes. I have a feeling Verizon might be getting ready to deploy those smaller gateway boxes and will probably start shipping them out for replacements soon and possibly once they run out of the QIP-7200s and QIP-7232s.

I am going to assume that Verizon is going to be making all new HD adds MPEG4 as it would make since now that they are replacing the 6200s and 6400s with MPEG4 boxes. Also the reason why TV Guide HD stopped rolling out is that Verizon might be wanting to make it MPEG4 and they stopped mid way in adding it and changed plans with making channels MPEG4 and possibly won't add it to all areas until it is converted to MPEG4 in the areas that have it?


Betamax76

join:2008-10-16
Canonsburg, PA

said by motorola870:

I am wondering if these changes have to do with Verizon finally having enough stock to supply customers with a MPEG4 QIP (motorola (soon to be arris)) or Cisco MPEG4 boxes. I have a feeling Verizon might be getting ready to deploy those smaller gateway boxes and will probably start shipping them out for replacements soon and possibly once they run out of the QIP-7200s and QIP-7232s.

I am going to assume that Verizon is going to be making all new HD adds MPEG4 as it would make since now that they are replacing the 6200s and 6400s with MPEG4 boxes. Also the reason why TV Guide HD stopped rolling out is that Verizon might be wanting to make it MPEG4 and they stopped mid way in adding it and changed plans with making channels MPEG4 and possibly won't add it to all areas until it is converted to MPEG4 in the areas that have it?

The channels migrating to MPEG-4 in April are all part of the Ultimate Package OR lesser watched HBO and Cinemax plex channels. So I believe that if H2 or HLN in HD is added this year it will be MPEG-2 initially because it is part of the lower packages. The same is true with TV Guide HD. However, if a channel like Sony Movie Channel HD is added as part of the Ultimate package, it will be MPEG-4 from the very beginning.

The QIP 6200 and 6416 boxes (first deployed in late 2005) that cannot decode MPEG-4 were last manufactured in 2008. They were replaced that year by the 7100-1 and 7216-1 boxes which could handle MPEG-4. The old QIP 6200 boxes with no hard drives could last a very long time (10 years or more) while the 6416 DVR boxes would likely start to fail within 5 years due to the hard drive. Thus, I would guess that there are a huge number of QIP 6200 boxes in the field that will NOT be replaced until the 30 most popular channels are transitioned to MPEG-4.

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:2

said by Betamax76:

The channels migrating to MPEG-4 in April are all part of the Ultimate Package OR lesser watched HBO and Cinemax plex channels.
...

ESPN Goal Line/Buzzer Beater 571 (one of the moved channels) is part of the Extreme package, at least for me in my area. And I have the latest Extreme package (1/2013).


Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
reply to OwlSaver

Hmmm...

Wonder if this is going to be system-wide on income tax day or the roll-out will run through the VHOs like IMG updates in order to spread it out.

I'm in VHO8 (immediate Philly area) and have received no email or messages on the boxes yet. I have a 6416 HD DVR and a 7100 HD STB. I'm also subscribed to HBO and MAX (the heck with the .TV shite).
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons


PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:2

said by Rattler:

Hmmm...

Wonder if this is going to be system-wide on income tax day or the roll-out will run through the VHOs like IMG updates in order to spread it out.

I'm in VHO8 (immediate Philly area) and have received no email or messages on the boxes yet. I have a 6416 HD DVR and a 7100 HD STB. I'm also subscribed to HBO and MAX (the heck with the .TV shite).

You still should be able to order using the STB menu.


matcarl
Premium
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY
reply to Rattler

Must be a staggered roll out like the IMG since not everyone got the email yet. They wouldn't make a big change like that in one day and have everyone calling up. Let's see how many VHO's got that email so far. I did and I'm in VHO5.


knarf829

join:2007-06-02
kudos:1
reply to Rattler

I'm in VHO8 and I did receive the email on March 5 4:47 PM.



Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA

said by knarf829:

I'm in VHO8 and I did receive the email on March 5 4:47 PM.

I have the extreme package and also get the following channels on the list:

HBO Family 906
HBO Family (West) 907
HBO Latino 912 (not an issue)
HBO Latino West 913 (not an issue)
MoreMax (West) 923
Action Max 924
Thriller Max 926
W Max 928
At Max 929

However, when I go to the STB menu, I can see the 8 questions/topics about the STB exchange but there is no item in the In Home Agent area to place an order for the new box to replace the 6416. Am beginning to feel like a red-headed stepchild...

As of this moment, no email either.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons


motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3
reply to mackey

said by mackey:

said by motorola870:

anyone want to take notes on what QAMs these are on right now?

SCANNING: 651000000 (us-irc:100, us-cable:100)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x247C
PROGRAM 735: 695 Comedy.TV HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 736: 599 Cars.TV HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 737: 558 ES.TV HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 315000000 (us-irc:39, us-cable:39)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x285F
PROGRAM 702: 906 HBO Family HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 705: 924 Action MAX East (encrypted)
PROGRAM 706: 922 More MAX HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 585000000 (us-irc:84, us-cable:84)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2478
PROGRAM 708: 597 World Fishing N (encrypted)
PROGRAM 750: 571 ESPN Buzzer Bea (encrypted)

SCANNING: 291000000 (us-irc:35, us-cable:35)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2823
PROGRAM 694: 907 HBO Family HD ( (encrypted)
PROGRAM 696: 913 HBO Latino HD ( (encrypted)
PROGRAM 698: 905 HBO Signature H (encrypted)

SCANNING: 321000000 (us-irc:40, us-cable:40)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2860
PROGRAM 707: 592 Tennis Channel (encrypted)
PROGRAM 721: 770 BET HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 309000000 (us-irc:38, us-cable:38)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x285E
PROGRAM 701: 902 HBO 2 HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 703: 912 HBO Latino HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 704: 904 HBO Signature H (encrypted)

SCANNING: 171000000 (us-irc:22, us-cable:22)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2807
PROGRAM 673: 921 Cinemax HD West (encrypted)
PROGRAM 693: 903 HBO 2 HD (West) (encrypted)
PROGRAM 700: 923 More MAX HD (We (encrypted)

SCANNING: 657000000 (us-irc:101, us-cable:101)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x247D
PROGRAM 738: 674 My Destination. (encrypted)
PROGRAM 739: 676 Recipe.TV HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 740: 633 Pets.TV HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 273000000 (us-irc:32, us-cable:32)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2820
PROGRAM 688: 911 HBO Zone HD (We (encrypted)
PROGRAM 691: 931 Outer MAX HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 692: 926 Thriller Max HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 255000000 (us-irc:29, us-cable:29)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x281D
PROGRAM 685: 908 HBO Comedy HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 686: 909 HBO Comedy HD ( (encrypted)
PROGRAM 697: 928 Wmax HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 267000000 (us-irc:31, us-cable:31)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x281F
PROGRAM 687: 910 HBO Zone HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 689: 929 At MAX HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 690: 930 Five Star MAX H (encrypted)

SCANNING: 333000000 (us-irc:42, us-cable:42)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x285A
PROGRAM 711: 781 Disney XD HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 712: 744 MGM Channel HD (encrypted)

SCANNING: 363000000 (us-irc:47, us-cable:47)
LOCK: qam256 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x286F
PROGRAM 722: 867 Showcase HD (encrypted)
PROGRAM 818: 1002 ESPN 3D (encrypted)

/M

could you pm me an entire list of the QAM channels from a scan on the silicondust tuner? I am curious as to how Verizon packs the entire spectrum for national channels. TWC here in North Texas has 60 something QAMs lit up with room for 75 total if counting the unuable FM band as one of the Hubs is within 10 miles of the antenna farm.


mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:10

I don't see a problem with just posting it here...

Attached.

/M


motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by mackey:

I don't see a problem with just posting it here...

Attached.

/M

anyone know where Verizon stuck the new NHL Center Ice/MLB Extra Innings HD channels? that chart shows that there is no room unless they put them on 69MHz or 825MHz.

dmine45

join:2002-11-03
Fredericksburg, VA
reply to mackey

Thanks for posting this. I live just north of you and we get a slightly different lineup. We get SOME Richmond stations on Clear QAM, but we're mostly DC centric.

By the way, how did you get the information for this list?



birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

said by dmine45:

By the way, how did you get the information for this list?

said by motorola870:

could you pm me an entire list of the QAM channels from a scan on the silicondust tuner?

said by mackey:

I don't see a problem with just posting it here...

Attached.

/M



Zero

join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA
reply to motorola870

downloadChannel Map.docx.zip 64,165 bytes
VHO8 Channel Map as of 3/9/13
Here's the channel map from VHO8 from a Ceton tuner. I also have a Silicondust tuner but Ceton's channel map has an easy to read layout. I put in a Word doc to keep its easy readability.


mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:10

It depends on what you mean by 'easy to read.' I don't see an easy way to tell how many channels there are per QAM or if there are any unused QAMs in that Ceton list...

dmine45 See Profile: »www.silicondust.com/products/hdh···n/prime/

/M


mikev
Premium
join:2002-05-04
Leesburg, VA
Reviews:
·Callcentric

said by mackey:

It depends on what you mean by 'easy to read.' I don't see an easy way to tell how many channels there are per QAM or if there are any unused QAMs in that Ceton list...

Sorting by the EIA number or frequency makes it much easier to see this... you may need to copy/paste it into Excel (or another spreadsheet program) first though, in order to sort. But it's definitely nice to have it in a table format.


Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
reply to OwlSaver

Click for full size
Here's a nipple twister...

Yesterday, I ordered the exchange HD DVR, to replace my 6416, via my HD STB. BTW, I could order through my 7100 HD box but not through my 6416 - go figure that one... I got a confirmation number and the blurb that the box would be shipped in 3 - 7 days. It also said that I had to return my old box within 30 days of the 03/13 date or I would be charged for two boxes.

Today, I went on the V* website to check the order status and it appears that the box won't be shipped until 06/11/2013!!! (see attached image of the status page)

When I called V* about it, today, I got the answer, "That's when they'll be available." I asked what to do about the 30 day return req't and the CSR said, "I don't know."

She transferred me to repair but I got disconnected after about 5 minutes of MUSAK.

I'm supposed to get an email when it ships. I guess if I don't get one by early next week I'll have to get on them again about it.

Why is almost everything about order processing with V* a PITA???
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons

NickP65

join:2008-12-11
Trenton, NJ

I also ordered it yesterday ... Got June 12!


RocklandFios

join:2008-07-24
Nyack, NY

ordered on Tuesday - got Sunday, June 9th



Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA

Misery loves company, I guess...


blue_trooper

join:2007-04-17
Exton, PA

Glad I got in during the free NHL preview. My new boxes came in about 24 hours.