Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| reply to Cthen
Re: [HD] FIOS Moving to MPEG-4 HD Cool. Speaking of Home Improvement, it's interesting that only Tim Allen, Patricia Richardson, Richard Karn, Pamela Anderson, Blake Clark, and Zachery Ty Bryan continued acting where as Jonathan Taylor Thomas continued until 2006, Taran Noah Smith continued until 2002 and Earl Hindman continued until 2003 upon his passing. |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to Joe12345678
But if they are sports packages, and they can manage them remotely, and they push them through every node, I don't think they need SDV. SDV is used for a whole bunch of channels that are always available at the node, but only pushed down from the node onto the RF when someone is actually watching one. |
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 DrDrewSo that others may surf.
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:8 | said by BiggA :SDV is used for a whole bunch of channels that are always available at the node, but only pushed down from the node onto the RF when someone is actually watching one.
SDV switches channels for groups of nodes at the headend, not the node. It's all streamed on the network to the headend and turned on the nodes when someone requests it. The node itself is just a media converter from fiber to coax and back.
Sports channels and other part time channels like porn, PPV, and international channels are great uses for SDV. As are mostly day time (sprout, disney, other kids channels) vs. nighttime (HBO, Cinemax, Starz, other adult channels) groups of channels. It works pretty well when good management and reporting is implemented.
Most people and most techs have no idea the channels they're looking at are SDV when it's done right.
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Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... Somethimes 99.999% availability isn't even good enough. |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH Reviews:
·Comcast
| Ok, that's a technicality. Why do you need SDV for sports? Just put them on and off at the head-end, and if they're off, they're just not tunable at that point in time. SDV is only really useful for channels that are always broadcasting, but aren't often watched. |
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DrDrewSo that others may surf.
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:8
4 edits | Putting them on and off means constantly pushing out channel maps to the boxes or the boxes generate errors which generate trouble calls. Neither case is good for the cable operator or thier customers.
Often it also means reconfiguring large amounts of equipment across multiple sites and pushing it out to a large area.
It's prone to mistakes and doesn't really net the operator anything but problems and a scheduling nightmare.
You don't need SDV for sports. SDV is just a good way to handle bandwidth shortages at the edge by switching channels that aren't watched full time by a large number of users. It allows the operator to use that channel space on a dynamic basis for other channels customers may want to watch. It automates and manages all that on off switching you're suggesting on a much finer scale to the point where it's seamless for the vast majority of users.
Comcast chose to drop analog and was required to push DTAs or cable boxes to all of it's customers. Other providers decided to keep analog and use SDV like Charter, Cox, and TWC. While others did neither and are short on bandwidth... cough, FIOS, cough...
The ironic thing is that Comcast is a driving force pushing the industry to develop the equipment that makes SDV possible, high density edge QAMs and modular DOCSIS 3, through it's CMAP now CCAP standards and designs. Soon the only thing Comcast sites will be missing is the SDV manager server, but a similar server will pop up when their CCAP sites start switching DOCSIS and video channels on demand... so SDV in another form. |
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1 edit | reply to Streetlight
said by Streetlight:said by GTFan:said by andyross:It may not cost the end-user, but it costs Comcast a ton of money. Just like any business, they want to milk all equipment for as long as possible. Hell, they still give out those ancient DCT-2000 series boxes!!
Just imagine how many DCT and DCH series boxes are out there, and SA equivalents.
Yeah I'm pretty sure they did the math and found out it's a whole lot cheaper to give people DTAs for 2 years and clear all that analog space (and then start charging for them to recoup the expense), than it was to spend a ton of money upgrading full STBs and DVRs. I don't think they have a lot of channel bandwidth pressures now (at least on 850mhz systems), because they're not adding much new HD anymore. What I and a lot of other folks have commented on in these forums is the CC has been removing premium HD channels and adding channels that have advertising. For instance, according to a flyer in our recent bill, The only Starz HD channel we have is Starz HD, but six Starz SD channels, four HBO HD channels but eight HBO SD channels, one Cinemax HD channel but nine Cinemax SD channels, one Showtime HD channel but six Showtime SD channels. We used to have most of the premium channels in HD. Not anymore. The excuse given by Comcast is that the stuff that's shown on the premium SD channels can be found as HD in On Demand. This is clearly a profit opportunity for them. They get fees from the new channels with advertising and the opportunity to sell single views of HD premium content to folks not subscribing to the premium channels. They also get the same or higher fees for those subscribing to the premium channels without providing them in HD as linear channels. And what sucks worse is we are paying a fortune for the premiums and the excuse that the channels shows can be found on OnDemand which is BS. Someone compared the shows on the real channels versus what is available OnDemand and only approximately one quarter of the content could be found on Comcast OnDemand. So you are basically losing 3/4 of the shows you are already paying for! Not to mention OnDemand's quality is horrid compared to the real channels. Take almost any real channel and compare the picture quality of the OnDemand version and there is no comparison as the real channel looks a million times better. And what makes it even worse is that Comcast is blocking services such as HBO Go and other premiums on certain devices such as Samsung and other smart TVs and Roku devices. I wish I had a viable alternative to Comcast!
Also the DTA think is a complete rip off and it drives me nuts! Comcast called and offered me two DTA's for my home, I told the guy I didn't want or need them and he said to take them as you never know when you might need to setup a temp TV and either way they are both FREE so why not! Well I agreed and recently they started charging $2 a month per box! I called for them to come get them and they won't as I have to bring it to them and I just don't have the time. They are scammers as someone implied before.
My RNG boxes (and everyone I know even miles away from my house) that have those boxes always have issues with the screen auto zooming and OnDemand always giving the please pull the plug issue. Most don't know what to do or are afraid to unplug in fear it will do something worse to their TV's or other hardware. They are a pain and OnDemand never works right!
Do any of you think the DCX3400's will ever get an upgrade to the newer guides like the X1 or fabled X2? Someone said only the RNG boxes?
I don't want SDV if it's going to be anything like OnDemand's picture quality. Comcast's high definition in general is pretty bad in terms of PQ. Comparing a Blu-ray in 720p to the same movie on HBO (or pretty much ANY movie) you finally see how bad Comcast's PQ is. A 720p Blu-ray shouldn't be a million times better than 1080i HBO channel (or any HD but it seems the premium channels have a better PQ then other HD's such as G4TV, ETC).
Thanks,
5th 
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"The relationship between what we see and what we know is never settled..." |
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| reply to Mike Wolf
Came across some info on the TiVo Premieres. Found it to be an interesting read. »mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/prem···w_01.pdf |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to DrDrew
FIOS went all-digital a number of years back, so I don't know what you're talking about. They were years ahead of Comcast.
Why would you need to re-map channels? Just leave them mapped all the time, and pull the stream out from behind them...
Analog and SDV is an idiotic combination when analog is clearly from the past. Getting rid of analog is the FIRST thing every cable provider should do, THEN MPEG-4, and finally, if they're still short on bandwidth, SDV.
What is Comcast driving the equipment development for VOD? They seem to love VOD WAY too much.
Why is Comcast trying to kludge their way around the simple solution of going MPEG-4?
I found out that my local Comcast system is 650mhz and that's why we're missing so many HDs... man I hope the other cable company gets their ass in gear and dumps analog, and gets faster internet speeds, as when they do, they can just wipe out Comcast. |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| I don't think Comcast would ever get wiped out by another cable provider. They are too big and powerful. I wish Comcast would just lead the industry in technology and services and move everything to MPEG4 and be done with it.
I do wonder if the picture quality of MPEG4 is truly that much more amazing then MPEG2. Is it really that noticeable? |
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DrDrewSo that others may surf.
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:8 | reply to BiggA
said by BiggA:FIOS went all-digital a number of years back, so I don't know what you're talking about. They were years ahead of Comcast. Sorry got a bit mixed up in my description. You're right that FIOS went all digital years ago, but FIOS is pretty much out of video bandwidth due to the way it handles distribution of local and ad insertion feeds. They're slowly going MPEG4, but even though they're several years later into the digital video arena than Comcast they also have a large mass of MPEG2 only equipment they need to replace. They were rumored to be going IPTV but that's run into lots of delays for all the video providers.
said by BiggA:Why would you need to re-map channels? Just leave them mapped all the time, and pull the stream out from behind them...
If you just pull the video stream, you leave the QAM slot in place. That generates errors on the boxes and edge QAMs. To pull the QAM you have to turn it off at the Edge QAM. To put another channel in it's place you'd have to reconfigure the Edge QAM. If the provider is inserting ads and/or stat muxing the channels so 3 HDs or 10 SDs fit nicely in the available bandwidth, then even more has to be done.
Either way, it's a REAL UGLY way to switch channels to save bandwidth especially if it's done frequently, since "just pulling the stream" doesn't really work.
said by BiggA:Analog and SDV is an idiotic combination when analog is clearly from the past. Getting rid of analog is the FIRST thing every cable provider should do, THEN MPEG-4, and finally, if they're still short on bandwidth, SDV. Lots of cable customers still use analog. Getting rid of it drives TONS of complaints and more than a little churn. It also drives providers to boxes purchases, which in todays market of massive guide changes and the requirements to run the new guides, isn't cheap or quick. Also SDV can still run on DCT boxes without a problem unlike MPEG4 or channels above 860 Mhz, which is why OTHER providers have embraced SDV.
said by BiggA:What is Comcast driving the equipment development for VOD? They seem to love VOD WAY too much. I didn't say anything about VOD, but it's getting dragged along too since it's generated by the Edge QAM type equipment, same as normal linear QAMs, SDV QAMs, and soon to be DOCSIS QAMs. The backend is very different though.
said by BiggA:Why is Comcast trying to kludge their way around the simple solution of going MPEG-4? MPEG4 requires all DCT, DCH, and many CableCARD devices to be replaced along with various pieces of headend gear. Again, not cheap or quick and messing with the usefulness of CableCARD devices usually draws out FCC actions.
The huge installed base of MPEG2 only gear is the main reason why MPEG4 is so slow in being deployed.
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Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... Somethimes 99.999% availability isn't even good enough. |
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| reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:I do wonder if the picture quality of MPEG4 is truly that much more amazing then MPEG2. Is it really that noticeable? It's not that it's more noticeable per-say, it's that it allows more efficient compression at a given bitrate than MPEG2, so hopefully it will help with the macroblocking in fast motion on over compressed HD channels. Another major benefit is that more linear channels can be carried in a given QAM. Of course you can choke the bitrate of MPEG4 in the name of carrying more channels just like you can with MPEG2, but you'd get at least another channel or two for each QAM frequency out of it before that would happen with MPEG4. |
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| reply to DrDrew
Any of you have any info on my questions? Would they have to change the complete software on the DCX4300 to do MPEG-4 HD?
Thanks in advance,
5th
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"The relationship between what we see and what we know is never settled..." |
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3 edits | said by FifthE1ement:Any of you have any info on my questions? Would they have to change the complete software on the DCX4300 to do MPEG-4 HD?
Thanks in advance,
5th
I assume some software patch would have to be made yes, it would apply to any STB that can potentially decode MPEG4.
I assume the legacy iGuide software/firmware cannot handle MPEG4 transport streams. But I don't know about that for sure.
Realistically, I have a feeling any move to MPEG4 would only come with a newer more flexible and updatable guide like the X1 Guide. |
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2 edits | reply to DrDrew
said by DrDrew: MPEG4 requires all DCT, DCH, and many CableCARD devices to be replaced along with various pieces of headend gear. Again, not cheap or quick and messing with the usefulness of CableCARD devices usually draws out FCC actions.
A few points...
1. If you read back on the first page Comcast actually has a pretty big footprint of MPEG4 capable boxes out in the field already.
2. As with other providers, If MPEG4 is used only for HD channels (excluding the locals), that leaves all legacy hardware able to decode the SD channels without issue. This will satisfy a lot of legacy users, who either don't have HD equipment or don't care about HD channels (I know quite a few people that have no idea/don't remember that the HD versions even exist). If a person does tune to an HD channel, they'll just get a little error that tells them to swap out their cable box.
3. CableCARD in-and-of itself has nothing to do with the codec used. It's simply an access control/decryption hardware key. Again as I and others have pointed out, if Comcast followed what other TV providers have done, by phasing in MPEG4 channels, it would allow people time to change their hardware. The MPEG4 problem would only affect 3rd generation TiVo users. That's part of the downside to owning your own hardware. Unfortunately, to Comcast, it seems TiVo users are really quite a niche group at this point. They would always have access to the SD version of course, since they stay MPEG2. So I serisouly doubt it would cause a problem that the FCC would care much about, especially the current FCC which is a sad group of people in the pocket of the telecom industry it seems.
4. Are you sure the head-end equipment needs much of any changes? I'm no expert in the exact workings of a cable head-end but doesn't it in effect just pass on MEPG transport streams at a given QAM assignment with the right compatible encryption schema for the equipment (SA or Moto)? Why would that equipment care about the codec used inside of the transport stream?
I assume the feeds are prepared/compressed at the master headend for the regional area, not at the local head-end. |
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DrDrewSo that others may surf.
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:8
1 edit | reply to FifthE1ement
said by FifthE1ement:Any of you have any info on my questions? Would they have to change the complete software on the DCX4300 to do MPEG-4 HD?
Thanks in advance,
5th
No, no need for a complete software change. TWC has some MPEG4 video streams running on DCX boxes with iGuide software |
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DrDrewSo that others may surf.
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:8 | reply to SpHeRe31459
Yes the can certainly do a phased roll out based on tiers of service, not sure why they haven't started that yet. TWC and others have...
Equipment that would care about the codec would include statistical multiplexers, ad splicers, encryptors, local channel encoders, and MPEG analyzers, among other things. Some of it is regional, some of it local.
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Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... Somethimes 99.999% availability isn't even good enough. |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to SpHeRe31459
said by SpHeRe31459:(I know quite a few people that have no idea/don't remember that the HD versions even exist). These people are my mortal enemy. |
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1 edit | Do I have to move to a FiOS area just to get MPEG4 ? Come on Comcast  |
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| You need some help, man. |
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andyrossPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-04
Schaumburg, IL | reply to SpHeRe31459
said by SpHeRe31459:I assume some software patch would have to be made yes, it would apply to any STB that can potentially decode MPEG4, I assume the legacy iGuide software/firmware cannot handle MPEG4 transport streams. But I don't know about that for sure. I don't think iGuide may even care about the MPEG format. That is up to the firmware of the device it's installed on. iGuide just works through an API to that to control the tuners and stuff. |
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