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cybersaga

join:2011-12-19
Welland, ON
reply to telco_mtl

Re: Plumbing in new home: hot and cold are reversed

said by telco_mtl:

according to one homeseller whoes house i was inspecting for a buyer, hot water to the toilet is a "feature". After taking his morning dump the flush of the toilet ensured the water was instantly hot in the shower...

Let's just hope they didn't have a wax ring under the toilet. The hot water'll eat away at the wax pretty quick.


jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
reply to CFoo

Wait, this is PEX piping? Isn't the point that it's a dedicated line to each fixture, more or less? Shouldn't this be a simple swap where the lines branch off in the basement?



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to CFoo

This is a "no brainer". Call the builder and tell them to fix it. Period.
H/C reversed is a 1st day apprentice mistake.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to CFoo

If it's a single knob/handle fixture that is Moan or Delta it's just a matter of using a special cartridge or rotating it. I would demand that the pipes get switched, as others have said it's part of the basic code. Hot water to the w/c is also against code and it would need to be swapped. The arguement that it brings h/w to the pipes for the shower is the funniest and most stupid thing I've heard. As also mentioned, it'll wear away the wax ring. Also think how many times you flush w/o getting ready to shower. All that h/w wasted. If the builder gives you you the run-around have the building inspector revoke the occupancy permit and sue the builder/plumber for an unlivable house. I'd also have a VERY picky inspector reinspect the house and bring to light every itty-bitty flaw. Thing slightly off level, gaps in the fitting of trim, blemishes on the granite countertops, uneveness in the drywall/plaster finish ....... Here in town the areas biggest builder is the son-inlaw of the inspector.



CFoo

join:2008-03-19
Nepean, ON
reply to CFoo

Thanks for all of the suggestions. My cousin did the 30 day inspection report and included this in the report. The only thing, the builder has a history of not fixing things by using whatever tactics they can use. This was evident in the last house they own (same builder) and my uncle's house, the same builder. Lets see if things have changed.

Now, I know what your thinking, why buy a house from the same builder if they have a poor record? In eastern Ontario, Canada, most of the other builders are the same (I hear stories from different people, same horror stories) because of the boom in Canadian real estate, there are not enough trade workers for the demand.

BTW, I told them not to buy from this builder but my advice was not heeded. Of course when there is an issue, who do they run to? Ah, they are family... and I am stupid


Timmn

join:2000-04-23
Tinley Park, IL

You mean you've never watched Holmes on Homes? If you believe him, probably more than half the builders in Canada can't do anything correctly.



nottocode

@optonline.net
reply to CFoo

said by CFoo:

The only thing, the builder has a history of not fixing things by using whatever tactics they can use.

Threaten to take them to Small Claims Court. My ex-B-I-L had a problem and threatened to take them to court. The builder came out to the house the same day. They didn't want the bad publicity.


nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium
join:2002-05-31
AZ
reply to CFoo

What builder....Matamay Homes?
--
This Space for Rent...


telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to cybersaga

said by cybersaga:

said by telco_mtl:

according to one homeseller whoes house i was inspecting for a buyer, hot water to the toilet is a "feature". After taking his morning dump the flush of the toilet ensured the water was instantly hot in the shower...

Let's just hope they didn't have a wax ring under the toilet. The hot water'll eat away at the wax pretty quick.

thats what i told him!

20211120

join:2013-03-08
reply to CFoo

what do you mean by expose the connections ?can you clear my doubt?

Expand your moderator at work


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to CFoo

Re: Plumbing in new home: hot and cold are reversed

If they with hold final payment I bet it will get fixed very fast.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus

1 edit
reply to CFoo

said by CFoo:

said by TheMG:

said by CFoo:

So should my cousin pursue the builder to fix the issue?

Yes, it's a NEW home, which normally comes with a warranty that covers construction defects such as this.

yes but this issue will try to get out of everything and by delaying and delyaing as they have in the past with their previous home and my uncle's home. You get so frustated and give up and do it your self or they tell you to go to home warranty.

So, did they withold the final payment? I'd hope so, as this could/should have been caught VERY early in the process of looking the place over.

If they already paid in full, and the builder puts them off, time to mention that they'll be leaving a review on Angie's List and that they'd REALLY like to be able to say how great it was, so please fix the pipes BEFORE the review is written.

If that doesn't help, and the negative review is posted anyway, time to call the lawyer to send a nastygram to get the builder out there.

The builder HAS to fix this. It violates basic safety codes and is a hazard. It's only a matter of finding what will motivate the builder to do so (final payment, reputation, or lawsuit).

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus
reply to 20211120

said by 20211120:

what do you mean by expose the connections ?can you clear my doubt?

I think he means open up the wall so that the pipes feeding the valve can be swapped.
Expand your moderator at work


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to CFoo

Re: Plumbing in new home: hot and cold are reversed

Make the builder fix it. Your cousin would really regret not having it corrected (it shouldn't cost a cent), especially when it comes time to sell the house.

I bought a new home in 98. The hot and cold were both hot in the master bath. They cut a hole in the ceiling above the ktichen and sure enough, they tee'd off the hot line twice.

It was kind of funny to have steaming water coming out of the toilet, though.

-- Rob
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Timmn

said by Timmn:

You mean you've never watched Holmes on Homes? If you believe him, probably more than half the builders in Canada can't do anything correctly.

Correct according to code doesn't necessarily equate to a 'satisfactory' customer experience.

For example, code specifies different size floor joists to span different distances based on span tables. So the structural engineer looks up the distance and, in the absence of instructions otherwise from the builder/owner, specifies the size of joist which costs the least for the span. It's all legit - the structure will carry the loads and not fall apart. BUT if the room is to be purposed to carry stacks of bookshelves or used as a dance floor for parties of 40 people at a time, the load characteristics are far different than the basic assumptions. And architects/engineers/builders don't always know what people will use rooms for.

Or to give you a real-world example, a while ago in a 30' span Code told me that I could use 12" TJI 200 at 16" O.C. with 3/4" plywood subfloor glued & screwed. But having prior experience walking on floors built that way I knew that would never be acceptable as a choice for a discerning user - me. So we built the floor as TJI400 @ 12" O.C. for what is colloquially called 'No China Rattle' - meaning that bone china plates and crystal glasses touching one another will not rattle as you walk anywhere on the floor vs. the rattle that would have been heard with the other joists.

Another example - a friend's home renovated a while ago has 5/8" plywood screwed-only subfloor but he has a duct installed very close to the subfloor. But because the subfloor isn't stiff enough (ie. 3/4" plywood glued & screwed) whenever he walks over the duct the subfloor flexes enough to impinge on the duct, resulting in a distinct metal compression noise to come out of the register. And this is code compliant and arguably NOT a building defect.


Warzau
Premium
join:2000-10-26
Naperville, IL
kudos:1

Agree or as what a realtor told me once. Code mean its safe to live in, but doesn't mean it's quality work.



CFoo

join:2008-03-19
Nepean, ON
reply to garys_2k

said by garys_2k:

said by 20211120:

what do you mean by expose the connections ?can you clear my doubt?

I think he means open up the wall so that the pipes feeding the valve can be swapped.

Yes, that what I meant.


CFoo

join:2008-03-19
Nepean, ON
reply to nightdesigns

said by nightdesigns:

What builder....Matamay Homes?

No but it does start with M.

Final payment is due when taking possession of the home (in Ontario). They did have a 3 day prior to closing inspection but they did not catch the plumbing problem.

Let see what the builder does with the 30 day inspection report.


nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium
join:2002-05-31
AZ
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

said by CFoo:

said by nightdesigns:

What builder....Matamay Homes?

No but it does start with M.

Good. We were looking at them for a build, an I know they are big in Canada.
--
This Space for Rent...


CFoo

join:2008-03-19
Nepean, ON

Did you mean Mattamy Homes? Please go look at a finish home, not a model home, especially in the basement where everything is exposed.



StepR
Code Warrior
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Elgin, IL

1 recommendation

reply to CFoo

I agree with the others about checking for the Moen cartridge. If so, it is a ten minute fix. (time actually depends on finding the right size hex wrench) The fact that the reversal is present in the shower but not the sink reinforces my opinion. I don't know why Moen can't print instructions on how to predict the direction of the cartridge when it is put in the first time.



Warzau
Premium
join:2000-10-26
Naperville, IL
kudos:1

Whether it's the cartridge or the actual plumbing, the homeowner should be making the installer do it.



jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
reply to CFoo

said by CFoo:

said by garys_2k:

I think he means open up the wall so that the pipes feeding the valve can be swapped.

Yes, that what I meant.

It's code in some U.S. states and standard practice in any good building design to provide an access panel to the piping of all tub/shower mixers. If s/he hasn't already, have your cousin check the opposite side of the wall. If there isn't one and the wall cavity does get opened for repair then insist a tool-less access panel is installed rather than wall-boarding it over again. It's a no-brainer even if you have to get aesthetically creative. Hopefully it's inside a closet.

Please don't tell me it's an outside wall. That would be too goofy.

G'luck


CFoo

join:2008-03-19
Nepean, ON

1 edit

said by jap:

It's code in some U.S. states and standard practice in any good building design to provide an access panel to the piping of all tub/shower mixers. If s/he hasn't already, have your cousin check the opposite side of the wall. If there isn't one and the wall cavity does get opened for repair then insist a tool-less access panel is installed rather than wall-boarding it over again. It's a no-brainer even if you have to get aesthetically creative. Hopefully it's inside a closet.

Please don't tell me it's an outside wall. That would be too goofy.

G'luck

For the tub, the shared wall is with a bedroom and it just a blank wall on the other side no access. The only thing is the faucet and spout is not on the wall. They built a tub enclosure and the controls are placed on the flat surface of the enclosure about 4" away from the finish wall. The tub enclosure is tiled with ceramic. The shower stall shares the wall with the tub so it can be opened up.

20211120

join:2013-03-08
reply to garys_2k

Thanks garys-2k to giving me response.I am satisfy with your answer .Do you think there is need of detection first or not?



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to StepR

said by StepR:

I don't know why Moen can't print instructions on how to predict the direction of the cartridge when it is put in the first time.

Because Moen cartridges don't have sides/directions?
I can't see how they can be reversed as they are perfectly symmetrical (yes I have replaced one in the past).


StepR
Code Warrior
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Elgin, IL

»www.moen.com/consumer-support/in···oen01338
Reversing Hot & Cold

Step 8:
"If you need to reverse the sides for Hot and Cold water first remove the handle. Next, rotate stem exactly 180 degrees and replace the handle."



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

The Moen website seems to be having issues displaying the page...