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doubleohwhat

join:2008-10-25
Birmingham, AL

1 recommendation

reply to mackey

Re: New speeds coming

said by mackey:

Actually, if you have the block of static IPs the Motorola NVG510 (ADSL2+) supports pass-through BEAUTIFULLY right out of the box, no hacking needed

/M

Yep. I know several people who have used that modem with a block of IPs with success. However, those of us on VDSL are still stuck up a tree with no solution (to my knowledge anyway).


mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:12
reply to dragonman300
said by dragonman300:

said by doubleohwhat:

You may or may not have this information but I figured I'd ask all the same:
1) Do you know the model of the new gateway?
2) Do you know if it will support proper bridging?

1) Motorola NVG589
»www.motorola.com/us/consumers/NV···,pd.html
This link indicted that Motorola NVG589 is coming to At&t Uverse

It's clear the NVG589 is built for AT&T; the product photos and user manual have "AT&T" plastered all over them. It looks very much like the NVG510.

The OP claimed the new RG will have "dual band" 5GHz capability; the NVG589 does not have this however. None of the testing or other docs at the FCC site mention anything about operating in the 5 GHz band; they do however say it's 2x2 MIMO in the 2.4GHz B/G/N band.

Basic overview is:
Single and 2-pair bonded VDSL and ADSL2+ WAN
Gigabit Ethernet WAN port for FTTP/ONT installs
HPNA 3.1 coax port
4x Gigabit Ethernet LAN ports
2x FXS VoIP ports
1x USB 2.0
400 mW wireless radio

The posted NVG589 user manual makes no mention of the "Cascaded Router" or 1:1 NAT features the NVG510 is capable of, but I don't think the posted manual for the NVG510 had it listed either. It does seem to have the same "legendary" IP Passthrough options as the NVG510 though

/M

dragonman300

join:2011-03-02
Anaheim, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Time Warner Cable
·Dish Network
reply to Fakarooz
If anyone want to know what Motorola NVG589 look like??? Here are some pics
Credit to mackey.





--
Curious about Sprint improved 3G and growing 4G LTE network? Then check it out at www.s4gru.com


whocares256
Tag?, What Tag? TAG You're it.

join:2002-03-10
Anna, TX
reply to Fakarooz
Will they be expanding Uverse in Northern Collin County where it is an ATT area? North of McKinney?


Mangix

join:2012-02-16
united state
reply to dragonman300
Is that a USB 3 port I see? This will definitely increase the amount of tech support calls asking why the Wi-Fi is terrible XD.


fakarooz

@sbcglobal.net
reply to dragonman300
Yes the NVG589, this will be used on all installs where the customer orders fast enough internet service or needs pair bonding to achieve ordered speeds. The gateway seems to be finalized and as someone pointed out that it is not dual band. I guess they omitted that feature out. Like the 3800HGV-B and 3801HGV, this is ready to support line vectoring. As part of the rollout, pair bonding will be done only if there is a second pair available. You may see AT&T workers at pedestals around your neighborhood conditioing the pairs and making sure there are extra pairs available. Sometimes there are pairs dedicated to addresses that never existed.

45/6 is not the only speeds that you will be seeing. 45/6 is our initial speed launch and we will progressively add higher speeds including ones beyond 100mbps. Many if you think this will only be available to people who are close to the VRAD, but these speeds can be achieved at homes at least 1300-1500ft away. Speeds of at least 75mbps will be available to almost 90% of our FTTN customers.


fakarooz

@sbcglobal.net
reply to Fakarooz
I found my spec sheet for the NVG 589. According to this there is 5Ghz and 2.4GHz dual band on this RG. Did they choose to omit this recently and my sheet is outdated?


Darknessfall
Premium
join:2012-08-17
kudos:6


tigerpaw509

join:2011-01-19
reply to Fakarooz
Comcast just doubled my speed,25/5 to 50/10 for free.Wondering if U's speed increase will be free?????


fakarooz

@sbcglobal.net
As for why AT&T is no longer using the Pace gateways and moving to Motorola has to do with Pace buying out 2wire. AT&T and other telcos around the world in a partnership helped create 2wire as an independant company. When the company got sold to Pace a while back, AT&T is no longer obliged to buy from Pace. Thus they can now shop around and look for better hardware offered.

nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX
So fakarooz any word if for customers with higher bandwidth profiles they will be able to receive higher bitrates for TV channels?

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to fakarooz

new speeds only more than 100× slower than the competition

said by fakarooz :

45/6 is not the only speeds that you will be seeing. 45/6 is our initial speed launch and we will progressively add higher speeds including ones beyond 100mbps. Many if you think this will only be available to people who are close to the VRAD, but these speeds can be achieved at homes at least 1300-1500ft away. Speeds of at least 75mbps will be available to almost 90% of our FTTN customers.

I call that wishful thinking. This whole upgrade will double the speed at most, then potentially some extra tiny increase from vectoring in the future. So, if AT&T didn't offer any tiers higher than 24/3 with a single pair, and when it's taking them several years to upgrade bonded pair from 18/1.5 to only 45/6, how long will it take before they start rolling out at least 50/50 to those who qualify? Probably not before the pigs fly!

My guess is, by the time AT&T decides that anyone would find any use of 50/50, providers like »Paxio.net in the Bay, »Fiber.USInternet.com in Minneapolis, Minn and »BurlingtonTelecom.net in Vermont will be offering 10000/10000, symmetric 10GigE, to every home, for under $150/month! I'm collecting a whole list of such providers at »bmap.su, and these 3 already offer symmetric GigE for under $150/month! Yeap, you heard that right, symmetric GigE for under 150 bucks!

AT&T offers only 6Mbps upload with their not-yet-public 45/6, the other firms already publicly offer 1000Mbps. AT&T U-verse 45/6 highest tier is 166× slower than these other offers. Paxio's slowest tier is 5/5 at $28.50/month, 15/15 @ $38.50; US Internet's — 15/15 @ $25/month. AT&T's fastest tier is slower than the slowest tiers of these other providers; will it be priced accordingly, in the $30/month range? How will AT&T be able to make any money off of these outdated speeds?

Do you know how long it takes to upload a picture or an album, or perform a backup, with 6Mbps? I still have some back pain. And I bet AT&T's 75Mbps tier, IF they even have one in the first place in any foreseeable future, will still have pathetic upload speeds.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to fakarooz

Re: New speeds coming

Moving away from 2Wire PoS is probably the best news here.


mmisek

join:2013-03-03
Cleburne, TX
reply to ConstantineM

Re: new speeds only more than 100× slower than the competi

said by ConstantineM:

[Do you know how long it takes to upload a picture or an album, or perform a backup, with 6Mbps?

Try 768kbps....*cringes*
--
Tier II Advanced Tech Support, AT&T U-verse
Fort Worth, Texas


rolande
Certifiable
Premium,Mod
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
kudos:6
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·ViaTalk

1 recommendation

reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

Do you know how long it takes to upload a picture or an album, or perform a backup, with 6Mbps? I still have some back pain. And I bet AT&T's 75Mbps tier, IF they even have one in the first place in any foreseeable future, will still have pathetic upload speeds.

This all goes back to having no strategic long term vision around the last mile delivery method with respect to consumer demand and capacity. They made their bed by choosing to stick with copper, especially with a largely decaying copper infrastructure already in the ground. It is an uphill battle because they "chose poorly". Sure fiber costs a lot to bury and deliver to each new customers home but it future-proofs your business model. I'd be curious the year over year cost comparison between fiber delivery and copper with respect to truck rolls per customer on infrastructure related issues.

As you can see, they can't react fast enough to the explosion in market demand, as everyone predicted years and years ago when they chose this route. The little they do react is relatively more costly, years late to the party, and not even half what consumers are needing and wanting by the time they deliver. The problem is with a market stranglehold, they can choose the "slow and steady wins the race" approach and kind of get away with it.

Now the question is when they pair bond, will they increase the gateway profile such that TV no longer eats into the data capacity? I'm guessing the gateway profiles will move up into the 40+Meg range. Even at 50Meg, the max data profile we might see is 86Meg down and maybe 8Meg up with 2 pairs.

What would really be groundbreaking is if they decided to have a last mile FTTH option from the VRADs. Copper is included and fiber is a premium install. One can dream, can't they?
--
Scott, CCIE #14618 Routing & Switching
»rolande.wordpress.com/


Rangersfan

@sbcglobal.net
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

I call that wishful thinking. This whole upgrade will double the speed at most, then potentially some extra tiny increase from vectoring in the future. So, if AT&T didn't offer any tiers higher than 24/3 with a single pair, and when it's taking them several years to upgrade bonded pair from 18/1.5 to only 45/6, how long will it take before they start rolling out at least 50/50 to those who qualify? Probably not before the pigs fly!

From last year's press release:

"Speed Upgrades. The Project VIP plan includes an upgrade for U-verse to speeds of up to 75Mbps and for U-verse IPDSLAM to speeds of up to 45Mbps, with a path to deliver even higher speeds in the future.

In the 25 percent of AT&T's wireline customer locations where it's currently not economically feasible to build a competitive IP wireline network, the company said it will utilize its expanding 4G LTE wireless network -- as it becomes available -- to offer voice and high-speed IP Internet services. The company's 4G LTE network will cover 99 percent of all in-region customer locations. AT&T's 4G LTE network offers speeds competitive with, if not higher than, what is available on wired broadband networks today. And in many places, AT&T's 4G LTE service will be the first high speed IP broadband service available to many customers."

»www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=2···id=35661


Wily_One
Premium
join:2002-11-24
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

My guess is, by the time AT&T decides that anyone would find any use of 50/50, providers like »Paxio.net in the Bay...

This intrigued me since I am also in San Jose. Checking their website, they clearly do NOT offer FTTH to most residences; only the very few new developments they've managed to get into. So until there's fiber coming to my demarc, Paxio is irrelevant.

Small companies like that are easy to start up, but they simply do not have the infrastructure of miles of cable already laid. This is why AT&T and Comcast continue to rule the roost; they've got the cabling in place.


rolande
Certifiable
Premium,Mod
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
kudos:6
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·ViaTalk
said by Wily_One:

Small companies like that are easy to start up, but they simply do not have the infrastructure of miles of cable already laid. This is why AT&T and Comcast continue to rule the roost; they've got the cabling in place.

Too bad it's the wrong kind of cabling.
--
Scott, CCIE #14618 Routing & Switching
»rolande.wordpress.com/

WhyMe420
Premium
join:2009-04-06
kudos:1
reply to Fakarooz

Re: New speeds coming

Will customers with Internet-only and say, a 3800 on a single pair with the 32/5, take advantage of any speed upgrades from the 24/3? Will I need pair bonding and/or a different modem?


Darknessfall
Premium
join:2012-08-17
kudos:6
reply to Fakarooz
So would it be possible to get the modem even if you aren't subscribing to the new tier?

nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX
reply to Fakarooz
Click for full size
So from looking in the manual from the FCC website i found a good picture of the ports on the back of the RG. I can see from the note that you use the splitter but it seems to be only for the VoIP phones that you would connect to the RG for service.

From the picture and reading in the manual there is only one DSL broadband port that you would plug in the RJ11 cable. Before I saw the manual i was expecting two DSL ports for the pair bonding connection.

So does this mean a splitter will go into to the DSL WAN port and you plug the two data RJ11 phone lines into it?

or will there still be a NID outside the home?


Wily_One
Premium
join:2002-11-24
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to rolande

Re: new speeds only more than 100× slower than the competi

said by rolande:

Too bad it's the wrong kind of cabling.

Gotta crawl before you can run, but I'm not disagreeing.

The reality is running fiber to every home would cost millions/billions of dollars, while at the same time consumers want affordable service. The old-guard behemoths like AT&T don't want to eat the cost of that outlay, especially when they know they will be forced to "share" the infrastructure like they had to with telephone wire.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

AT&T offers only 6Mbps upload with their not-yet-public 45/6,

I don't mean to nitpick but from what I understand this will be a new profile correct?

Which means the new internet speed will probably be close to 35/4

Matt7

join:2001-01-02
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Insight Communic..
reply to nephipower

Re: New speeds coming

said by nephipower:

So does this mean a splitter will go into to the DSL WAN port and you plug the two data RJ11 phone lines into it?

or will there still be a NID outside the home?

No my understanding is -- The pair bonding will be done via the cable strands and into the RJ-DSL WAN Connector.. Basically the cable coming into your house can have multiple pairs and typically for telephone (or DSL) they use a specific pair to a connector what they will do is combine the pairs in that connector to do the pair bonding instead of having an outside iNid doing it.

nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX
Oh yeah, i don't know i didn't think of that that totally makes sense.
For RJ45 on a regular cable you only use 2 out of the 4 pairs. So for some VoIP systems they use the extra pairs or some enterprise APs they use what is called power over ethernet so you have to have an outlet whereever the wireless AP is placed.

So for RJ11 there are 3 pairs is it normally that just 1 pair right now is used for data. So with paired bonding for the new RG that it would use 2 out of the 3 pairs?

antennaman19

join:2010-01-18
Painesville, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to ConstantineM

Re: new speeds only more than 100× slower than the competi

How nice for you and your list of isp's that don't come within 500+ miles of my house! I have a choice between AT&T and TW. The devil or the deep blue. I choose the devil I know. Until I get a legitimate, reliable alternative, I'll stand pat.

I would dream of at least 5-6 mb upload though. I'm already pair-bonded. Bring it on.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to Rangersfan

Do you think being faster is better than being slow?

said by Rangersfan :

said by ConstantineM:

I call that wishful thinking. This whole upgrade will double the speed at most, then potentially some extra tiny increase from vectoring in the future. So, if AT&T didn't offer any tiers higher than 24/3 with a single pair, and when it's taking them several years to upgrade bonded pair from 18/1.5 to only 45/6, how long will it take before they start rolling out at least 50/50 to those who qualify? Probably not before the pigs fly!

From last year's press release:

"Speed Upgrades. The Project VIP plan includes an upgrade for U-verse to speeds of up to 75Mbps and for U-verse IPDSLAM to speeds of up to 45Mbps, with a path to deliver even higher speeds in the future.

In the 25 percent of AT&T's wireline customer locations where it's currently not economically feasible to build a competitive IP wireline network, the company said it will utilize its expanding 4G LTE wireless network -- as it becomes available -- to offer voice and high-speed IP Internet services. The company's 4G LTE network will cover 99 percent of all in-region customer locations. AT&T's 4G LTE network offers speeds competitive with, if not higher than, what is available on wired broadband networks today. And in many places, AT&T's 4G LTE service will be the first high speed IP broadband service available to many customers."

»www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=2···id=35661

For AT&T wired networks, yes, precisely. Their fastest U-verse upload speed is probably indeed much slower than the upload speeds on LTE. I mean, if the 45Mbps tier has only 6Mbps upload, how much slower can you get? It's so slow they're even ashamed to include the upload speeds into their price list, let alone a press release.

nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX
reply to nephipower

Re: New speeds coming

said by nephipower:

Oh yeah, i don't know i didn't think of that that totally makes sense.
For RJ45 on a regular cable you only use 2 out of the 4 pairs. So for some VoIP systems they use the extra pairs or some enterprise APs they use what is called power over ethernet so you have to have an outlet whereever the wireless AP is placed.

So for RJ11 there are 3 pairs is it normally that just 1 pair right now is used for data. So with paired bonding for the new RG that it would use 2 out of the 3 pairs?

Nvm, what i said, i had accidentally looked at RJ12 picture instead of RJ11

mdpeterman

join:2010-10-10
Westerville, OH
reply to Fakarooz
Do you think with the speed upgrade they will bump caps for users on the faster packages? I'd think of switching to AT&T, but I think 250GB seems cramped. While I don't think it would be an issue I have been buying TV seasons on my Apple TV and using up about 160-200GB a month so far and I can see using more in the future.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to Wily_One

Re: new speeds only more than 100× slower than the competi

said by Wily_One:

said by ConstantineM:

My guess is, by the time AT&T decides that anyone would find any use of 50/50, providers like »Paxio.net in the Bay...

This intrigued me since I am also in San Jose. Checking their website, they clearly do NOT offer FTTH to most residences; only the very few new developments they've managed to get into. So until there's fiber coming to my demarc, Paxio is irrelevant.

Small companies like that are easy to start up, but they simply do not have the infrastructure of miles of cable already laid. This is why AT&T and Comcast continue to rule the roost; they've got the cabling in place.

Wrong way to look at it. Paxio does have the cabling in place; they could probably wire down your whole neighbourhood for 500$/house, which, I must say, is REALLY cheap and is a great deal, and you could be having 1000/1000 for 140$/mo after that.

The problem is not a level-playing field. AT&T has the free copper, and lots of existing customers that generate lots of revenue, so they could easily shell out a 500$/house passed (like Verizon did with FiOS), yet they still won't. But Paxio simply doesn't have that kind of money yet. Let's hope Sonic.net upcoming GigE in SF is successful, and would spread. If you're in the Bay, and MDU, you might also check out »WebPass.net, they offer 100/100 @ 50$, and use a line-of-sight wireless-to-the-building model.