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Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to d4m1r

Re: Usage - overages

[said by d4m1r]
....Anyway, the last thing I'd comment is the grouping of Rogers, Videotron, and Cogeco. Especially having Cogeco and Rogers in the same group (and therefore same cost per GB over and max charge) doesn't make sense to me given how different your capacity costs are across those networks. Cogeco should be on its own tier while Rogers at least (and possibly tied with Videotron too if close enough to Rogers, can't remember the rate atm) should be in its own tier. Should allow you to charge 40c/GB lets say for Rogers but still $50 max cap.

 
Looks better (and simpler), as I posted a few above, but yes, if there was ANY tweaking to still consider (and I do not have all of the wholesale CBB rates exactly memorized), it would be something like that.

PROPOSAL :

For Bell, Aliant, Shaw, Telus (unchanged) :
Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.25/GB to a maximum of $25/month.

For Rogers :
Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.35/GB with a maximum of $35/month.

For Videotron :
Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.40/GB with a maximum of $40/month.

For Cogeco (unchanged) :
Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.50/GB with a maximum of $50/month.

My number choices are based upon what I THINK I remember the CBB rates are, but other factors may need to influence these numbers too.

And, BTW, I am in Cogeco-Land.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

JonyBelGeul
Premium
join:2008-07-31
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

Seems like we're basically looking at this:

For Bell, Aliant, Shaw, Telus

Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.25/GB to a maximum of $25/month.

For Rogers, Videotron and Cogeco

Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.50/GB with a maximum of $50.

except for speeds 60 and above that may need a higher max or maybe even unlimited.

I just noticed this. Go with it. It gets my vote. It's loads better than your original idea. It's even more simple than my suggestion, it's just as simple as current overage scheme, it's more fair too. And if you're still worried you're not fair enough, go with the either-or upgrade program I suggested.
--
My blog. Wanna Git My Ball on Blogspot.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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said by JonyBelGeul:

I just noticed this....

Check my latest suggestion too.

BTW, does anyone have all of the exact CBB rates handy to post or link ?


callous99

@voxility.net

up to a penalty of $50 for Rogers customers is a bit much. $35 might be ok. $50 was the penalty for Rogers not that long ago, and wouldnt go down well with present Teksavvy customers.

Not everyone means to go over.



d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
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said by callous99 :

up to a penalty of $50 for Rogers customers is a bit much. $35 might be ok. $50 was the penalty for Rogers not that long ago, and wouldnt go down well with present Teksavvy customers.

Not everyone means to go over.

$35 would be even better but it depends what Marc can work out based on their costs...I don't know if $50 was a rough estimate on his part or a final figure he came up with after calculations...

Either way, MUCH better than Rogers directly who cap overages at up to $100...$50 sets TSI apart and could save you $50 everything depending on your usage.
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

Seems like we're basically looking at this:

For Bell, Aliant, Shaw, Telus

Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.25/GB to a maximum of $25/month.

For Rogers, Videotron and Cogeco

Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.50/GB with a maximum of $50.

Ya, this reads very nicely. For lower speeds it is punitive enough to keep people behaving, but very competitive and pretty fair. However...

said by TSI Marc:

except for speeds 60 and above that may need a higher max or maybe even unlimited.

I think so. Obviously you need to look at the real per user numbers, but the risks on those fast tiers are killer....
--
electronicsguru.ca


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
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kudos:21
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

well. I'm gonna go try and catch some shut eye.

And the very next post: "Marc, you will lose customers"

No sleep, sleep and you'll lose!!!
--
electronicsguru.ca

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by geokilla:

Simple yet effective and is reasonable is the best way to go.

ok so, what do you see as simple again?

Submission to the Borg is the simple solution.
Bell will file an R&V of the latest decision the day after you publish your updated price list, thereby forcing you back to the drawing board anyway.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

the things that upsets me about this is that this is exactly the kind of thing that makes us look like the incumbents.

one by one independents will now have huge overage fees. that's exactly what we used to say about incumbents. all artificial.

systematically getting picked apart like a glacier - inch by inch.

SO write Blais and let him know that the CRTC decisions have made it seem like everyone is an incumbent now. There's no clarity for customers - the CRTC rulings have made all the indie packages just as confusing as incumbent ones - which your customer base hates....... you're spending more time now explaining CRTC rate aberrations than you are selling to new customers.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by TSI Marc:

the things that upsets me about this is that this is exactly the kind of thing that makes us look like the incumbents.

one by one independents will now have huge overage fees. that's exactly what we used to say about incumbents. all artificial.

systematically getting picked apart like a glacier - inch by inch.

SO write Blais and let him know that the CRTC decisions have made it seem like everyone is an incumbent now. There's no clarity for customers - the CRTC rulings have made all the indie packages just as confusing as incumbent ones - which your customer base hates....... you're spending more time now explaining CRTC rate aberrations than you are selling to new customers.

Move to second Maynard's motion!
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


Rickkins

join:2004-04-05
Mtl, Canada

Third.


JonyBelGeul
Premium
join:2008-07-31
reply to TSI Marc

An important point to consider. Now, you're explaining it to us on the forum, and we sorta kinda get it (by "we", I mean not me personally. I is confusioned.). But what happens when a customer calls one of your CSR's, and then he tries to explain it over the phone? It's going to be a mess if you go with your original idea. I mean, your CSR's have been really good to me and all, but when I imagine them trying to explain this stuff, it's not a pretty sight. Sure, they could just refer the customer to the website, but it won't look pretty when the CSR's are like "Euh, look, we barely understand it ourselves, so go on the website, please. May I help you with anything else?" Besides the effect on the customer, think of the effect on your CSR's confidence in doing their job.

It's got to be simple for that reason alone. Go with the $0.25/$25 - $0.50/$50, or with other schemes presented here that are just as simple.
--
My blog. Wanna Git My Ball on Blogspot.


ShetiPhian

join:2011-12-29
Belleville, ON
reply to TSI Marc

Marc's method isn't that complicated and it is better then $x/xGB upto $x
Its also a nice change for the usual.

As far as explaining it the chart he posted makes it very clear, it is a simple formula after all, and can be easily displayed on the invoice.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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START Today!
kudos:7

said by ShetiPhian:

....As far as explaining it the chart he posted makes it very clear, it is a simple formula after all, and can be easily displayed on the invoice.

 
Hmmmm, "One PICTURE...."

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to ShetiPhian

said by ShetiPhian:

Marc's method isn't that complicated and it is better then $x/xGB upto $x
Its also a nice change for the usual.

As far as explaining it the chart he posted makes it very clear, it is a simple formula after all, and can be easily displayed on the invoice.

It may have been that in the past TSI's customer base could largely do some algebra, and that most (but not all) who frequent DSLr can even manage a regression analysis.

Bit I'd wager TSI Marc's Timmies franchise that the average TSI customer today would have difficulty understanding a 3-level If, then, else statement -- which is effectively what Marc & some others have proposed as alternatives.

This whole fiasco is beginning to remind me of as cross between ROBELLUS and their multitude of conditional, optional, and nonsensical fee structures and the Clinton-era debate on the definition of the word "is". For you youngsters, »www.slate.com/articles/news_and_···_is.html

ali gil

join:2009-08-21
North York, ON
reply to TSI Marc

Hey guys I have vdsl 25/10 and heard about upload not counting as part of the 300gb usage. Is this policy effective as of now or yet to be implemented.



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5

said by ali gil:

Hey guys I have vdsl 25/10 and heard about upload not counting as part of the 300gb usage. Is this policy effective as of now or yet to be implemented.

Not implemented yet, right now these are all projections as to what may eventually become reality AFTER the move to aggregated POI is set up and operational.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

Threz

join:2011-02-02
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

Seems like we're basically looking at this:

For Bell, Aliant, Shaw, Telus

Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.25/GB to a maximum of $25/month.

For Rogers, Videotron and Cogeco

Overage on all packages that are not unlimited will be charged at $0.50/GB with a maximum of $50.

except for speeds 60 and above that may need a higher max or maybe even unlimited.

I like this simple explanation. The difficulty is of course with the higher tiers where unlimited is more than a $50 increase from the previous tier (ex: Rogers 150/10 $84.95 300G -> $219.95 Unlim). As you've pointed out, there has to be some reason to choose unlimited vs 300G (or whichever) and so the penalty has to be higher than the difference, which in this case would be $135.

Which essentially means that you'll have to use a "complicated" unlim + penalty explanation for those tiers anyways. Personally, I would prefer to have the same calculation on all tiers in a given region. In the above example the $50 overage fee is harsher compared to the unlimited plan for those on smaller plans, and less harsh for those on higher plans.

I think much of the confusion stems from what the overage charges actually "mean" for the customer. Are they a simple "punishment" for going over their plan, or are they trying to be an incentive to move to the unlimited plan?

From some of your other comments in this thread, it seems like you want it to be an incentive to move to the unlimited plan. If that's the case, then under this model I've quoted there's actually less incentive the faster the plan - because the penalty is a flat $50 but the difference between a 300G plan and an unlimited one increases as one goes up the tiers.

For example:

Assuming $50 max penalty:
6/0.256 mbps
300 Gigs - $30.95
Unlimited - $40.95
Difference: $10
"Incentive" felt by customer to switch to unlimited: $40

25/2 mbps (ATPIA)
300 Gigs - $39.95
Unlimited - $59.95
Difference = $20
"Incentive" felt by customer to switch to unlimited: $30

45/4 mbps (ATPIA)
300 Gigs - $54.95
Unlimited - $99.95
Difference = $45
"Incentive" felt by customer to switch to unlimited: $5

In the first plan, there is great incentive to switch to unlimited if you go over. You would be dinged four months worth of unlimited charges compared to just choosing unlimited.

Compare that to the 45/4 plan. There is essentially no reason to ever switch to unlimited for hitting the $50 penalty fee. The difference in cost in paying for unlimited vs paying the fee is only $5 per month - you'd have to hit the penalty for 10 months consecutively before switching to unlimited starts to make sense.

Therefore, I really think that even though a max penalty of "unlimited + $x" might seem more complex, it makes more sense in terms of customers calculating which tier they should be on. Customers that spend less will see their bills go up by less if they do go over, but customers that spend more will see a comparatively larger increase. You also wouldn't have to make a special rule for tiers where the difference cost between unlimited and 300G is greater than the proposed penalty. It would be one, consistent calculation.

Also, I really do like the rolling 2 month average. I think that's a very big sell compared to the incumbents. You can really spin the flexibility of a rolling average compared to how strict the incumbents are with their data overage policies. Had some family over during the holidays and they all brought laptops and streamed a bunch of movies, pushing you over your limit? On Teksavvy - no big deal as it averages out. On Rogers? Bang. Charges.

It feels like customers have a "pass" once every blue moon their usage isn't the same as the rest of the year.


random

@teksavvy.com
reply to MaynardKrebs

>Bit I'd wager TSI Marc's Timmies franchise that the average TSI customer today would have difficulty understanding a 3-level If, then, else statement

A T4 is way more complicated than that, but most manage to do it somehow. ;P

Threz:
The overage fee is supposed to be away to recover the cost to TSI. TSI works out the fee for "unlimited" as a price point that they can comfortably provide a service. At higher speeds, the cost for doing so is much higher.

The $20 is the fine/punitive damage/incentive for the customer to move to the unlimited tier if he/she persists to download as much for more than a blue moon. There is always the option of the customer switching from 300GB to unlimited for a few months when they need to and back on their own.


Eug

join:2007-04-14
Canada
reply to TwiztedZero

said by TwiztedZero:

said by ali gil:

Hey guys I have vdsl 25/10 and heard about upload not counting as part of the 300gb usage. Is this policy effective as of now or yet to be implemented.

Not implemented yet, right now these are all projections as to what may eventually become reality AFTER the move to aggregated POI is set up and operational.

He's not on cable.
--
Everything Apple

condor11

join:2007-10-12
reply to TSI Marc

Could someone confirm is Teksavvy charges to change plan from Unlimited to 300Gb?


ShetiPhian

join:2011-12-29
Belleville, ON

said by condor11:

Could someone confirm is Teksavvy charges to change plan from Unlimited to 300Gb?

Don't know if they do now, but it will be $5 with the new plans

»[Cable] NEW RATES - Cogeco
"switching to lower tiers or speeds costs $5 to the incumbent.. so it's easy to change.." -Marc

condor11

join:2007-10-12

said by ShetiPhian:

Don't know if they do now, but it will be $5 with the new plans

That seems to apply if changing speed. In any case, I don't think Incumbents would even know that Tek customer is changing from Unlimited to 300G. I can understand they may have administrative cost to such a change. But even if they do, perhaps in light of recent shakover they could waive it?


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
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reply to condor11

said by condor11:

Could someone confirm is Teksavvy charges to change plan from Unlimited to 300Gb?

It does NOT cost anything to change between plans on the speed tier as Rogers doesn't need to get involved...
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www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting

ShetiPhian

join:2011-12-29
Belleville, ON
reply to TSI Marc

I took "tiers or speeds" as two different things.
Seeing how speeds are self explanatory I figured tiers must mean the tiers within the current speed (aka the download cap)

But costing nothing to change your cap seems right, as the incumbent wouldn't be involved.


JonyBelGeul
Premium
join:2008-07-31

Yeah, sorry. It's my fault. I was confused when I suggested an "upgrade program" to go from one tier to another within the same speed tiers for free, thereby implying that this is usually done for a fee. There's a fee when changing speed from DSL10 to DSL15 for example, but there's no fee when going from 75GB cap to 300GB cap for example.
--
My blog. Wanna Git My Ball on Blogspot.