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TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to InvalidError

Re: Usage - overages

said by InvalidError:

said by TSI Marc:

and basically.. if they want more details.. go see this thread to see exactly how we calculate it... ?

Maybe not this thread since the work-in-progress bits would likely confuse the heck out of people.

Sort it out, clean it up, make a new sticky one and link to that.

right..
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
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reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

Only because you said it like that... Following the first few posts and explanations and I just don't understand it. I myself would much prefer paying the difference between the two and get bumped up to Unlimited tier if I go over 300GB for any given month. Makes more sense, is more fair (imo), and easy to follow and understand. And note I don't use more than 200GB on a month, so this doesn't even concern me to begin with!

You gotta remember that not everyone comes to DSLR and is as knowledgeable as us. A lot of your customers just want a good alternative to Robellus and Cogeco.

well actually, my way is even more fair (or lenient.. or to be blunt, would cost you less than your way) than what you're suggesting. by quite a bit really.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Davesnothere
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reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by Davesnothere:

I like your simpler approach too, but why does the max bill need to be higher than unlimited for that tier ?

Averaging.

People on permanent unlimited always pay for more than 300GB regardless of whether or not they actually use it. People on 300GB cap who end up on "unlimited a-la-carte" however will ALWAYS be exceeding 300GB. The $20 is the premium for not having to commit to paying extra on a monthly basis.

 
OK, but in that case, I think that even $10 above unlimited as an admin penalty would be enough to accomplish that purpose.

Enough folks here have whined about $4 - think MLPPP fee.


TSI Marc
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kudos:28

said by Davesnothere:

said by InvalidError:

said by Davesnothere:

I like your simpler approach too, but why does the max bill need to be higher than unlimited for that tier ?

Averaging.

People on permanent unlimited always pay for more than 300GB regardless of whether or not they actually use it. People on 300GB cap who end up on "unlimited a-la-carte" however will ALWAYS be exceeding 300GB. The $20 is the premium for not having to commit to paying extra on a monthly basis.

 
OK, but in that case, I think that even a $10 admin penalty would be enough to accomplish that purpose.

Enough folks here have whined about $4 - think MLPPP fee.

I had it at 150% of the difference between the lowest and highest. (but that's, again, complicated to explain)
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


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said by TSI Marc:

I had it at 50% more than the difference between the lowest and highest. (but that's, again, complicated to explain)

I just edited that post - please re-read.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by geokilla:

Only because you said it like that... Following the first few posts and explanations and I just don't understand it. I myself would much prefer paying the difference between the two and get bumped up to Unlimited tier if I go over 300GB for any given month. Makes more sense, is more fair (imo), and easy to follow and understand. And note I don't use more than 200GB on a month, so this doesn't even concern me to begin with!

You gotta remember that not everyone comes to DSLR and is as knowledgeable as us. A lot of your customers just want a good alternative to Robellus and Cogeco.

well actually, my way is even more fair (or lenient.. or to be blunt, would cost you less than your way) than what you're suggesting. by quite a bit really.

But if it doesn't make sense or is easily understood, you'll have trouble with the public. I may be negative, but I think my negativity and concerns opens up new ideas and problems that you may not have thought about before... I don't know. I don't work for Teksavvy and I'm not TSI Marc but to me, it's a valid concern.

Plus as a business, you need revenues. You can always adjust the packages and make them cheaper by $2 or whatever once you got a better sense of what happens once APOI hits. We welcome price decreases more than price increases you know


TSI Marc
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Chatham, ON
kudos:28

said by geokilla:

said by TSI Marc:

said by geokilla:

Only because you said it like that... Following the first few posts and explanations and I just don't understand it. I myself would much prefer paying the difference between the two and get bumped up to Unlimited tier if I go over 300GB for any given month. Makes more sense, is more fair (imo), and easy to follow and understand. And note I don't use more than 200GB on a month, so this doesn't even concern me to begin with!

You gotta remember that not everyone comes to DSLR and is as knowledgeable as us. A lot of your customers just want a good alternative to Robellus and Cogeco.

well actually, my way is even more fair (or lenient.. or to be blunt, would cost you less than your way) than what you're suggesting. by quite a bit really.

But if it doesn't make sense or is easily understood, you'll have trouble with the public. I may be negative, but I think my negativity and concerns opens up new ideas and problems that you may not have thought about before... I don't know. I don't work for Teksavvy and I'm not TSI Marc but to me, it's a valid concern.

Plus as a business, you need revenues. You can always adjust the packages and make them cheaper by $2 or whatever once you got a better sense of what happens once APOI hits. We welcome price decreases more than price increases you know

oh totally a valid concern. I dont see it that you're being negative.. - constructive criticism..

my concern is that I want something that makes sense and that I can live with myself when charging these overages...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by TSI Marc:

I had it at 50% more than the difference between the lowest and highest. (but that's, again, complicated to explain)

I just edited that post - please re-read.

I just edited my post - please re-read (LOL that's too funny)

I think we're almost saying the same thing.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

oh totally a valid concern. I dont see it that you're being negative.. - constructive criticism..

my concern is that I want something that makes sense and that I can live with myself when charging these overages...

Simple yet effective and is reasonable is the best way to go. You shouldn't sacrifice profits to make yourself happy. Like I said, if you find yourself making too much (which no company should be sad or not like), then drop your package pricing by $2 or whatever to make yourself even more competitive!


TSI Marc
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said by geokilla:

Simple yet effective and is reasonable is the best way to go.

ok so, what do you see as simple again?
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

OK, but in that case, I think that even $10 above unlimited as an admin penalty would be enough to accomplish that purpose.

The thing is it may not be only an administrative cost.

Over 300GB/month is ~6h/day of streaming at 4Mbps and that means ~$50/month during peak hours on GAS or ~$100/month on Rogers/Videotron, which is quite a bit more than $10 extra cost to potentially have to assume.

Of course, not everyone busting their 300GB cap uses all of it during peak hours but it is a real possibility that a fair chunk of it still will.


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said by InvalidError:

....Of course, not everyone busting their 300GB cap uses all of it during peak hours but it is a real possibility that a fair chunk of it still will.

It's really hard to say for sure, isn't it ?

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by geokilla:

Simple yet effective and is reasonable is the best way to go.

ok so, what do you see as simple again?

What I proposed earlier, with the automatic bumping up in tiers if you go past 300GB for a specific month, then charging the difference between Unlimited and 300GB for that month.

Or as elitefx suggested, usage blocks, which I'm in total support of as well as long as they are reasonable.


TSI Marc
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said by geokilla:

said by TSI Marc:

said by geokilla:

Simple yet effective and is reasonable is the best way to go.

ok so, what do you see as simple again?

What I proposed earlier, with the automatic bumping up in tiers if you go past 300GB for a specific month, then charging the difference between Unlimited and 300GB for that month.

Or as elitefx suggested, usage blocks, which I'm in total support of as well as long as they are reasonable.

hum. that would mean that there's no reason to take anything other than the lowest usage package...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
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I'm more leaning towards:

"The max you would pay is $X more than the unlimited tier."

things at this point.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



Montreal DSL

join:2011-02-02
Montreal-DSL
reply to TSI Marc

Now, that's simple

I like it



Davesnothere
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

hum. that would mean that there's no reason to take anything other than the lowest usage package...

 
Cell providers offer data packs like that, where they bump you to the next data amount each month if you exceed the one below it.

Some call it 'Flex'.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

It's really hard to say for sure, isn't it ?

Streaming video is the single biggest traffic growth driver and time-shifting viewing to off-peak would be pretty hard to do unless you work evening shifts... so most people using internet mostly during peak hours (ed: and increasingly so) seems like a pretty safe bet to me - there wouldn't be such a think as peak/rush hours in the first place if such were not the case.


Davesnothere
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

I'm more leaning towards:

"The max you would pay is $X more than the unlimited tier."

things at this point.

 
...which is fine, but now, how do we GET there ?

IOW, by what cost steps per GB or whatever ?


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

said by Davesnothere:

said by TSI Marc:

I'm more leaning towards:

"The max you would pay is $X more than the unlimited tier."

things at this point.

 
...which is fine, but now, how do we GET there ?

IOW, by what cost steps per GB or whatever ?

voodoo majik!
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

hum. that would mean that there's no reason to take anything other than the lowest usage package...

Then make it the difference X 125%? Make them think twice before signing up for 300GB. So if you were at 45/4, the difference would be $56.25. That 25% can be quite costly...

I guess that goes back to your following though.

said by TSI Marc:

I'm more leaning towards:

"The max you would pay is $X more than the unlimited tier."

things at this point.



elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

hum. that would mean that there's no reason to take anything other than the lowest usage package...

Final thought: a lot of guys have been suggesting a tier/price between 300GB and Unlimited. You could incorporate the automatic usage blocks AND the Unlimited plus $20 for 100GB over and up. Got to have an incentive for folks to play by the rules.

Straight up Unlimited plus $20 may unfairly penalize a user who simply downloads 5 or 10GB too much. Although that's a judgement call.


TSI Marc
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reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

said by TSI Marc:

hum. that would mean that there's no reason to take anything other than the lowest usage package...

Then make it the difference X 125%? Make them think twice before signing up for 300GB. So if you were at 45/4, the difference would be $56.25. That 25% can be quite costly...

I guess that goes back to your following though.

said by TSI Marc:

I'm more leaning towards:

"The max you would pay is $X more than the unlimited tier."

things at this point.

yeah exactly.. no matter how you try to simplify it.. you always end up with "oh and there's also a 25% additional hit"

or something you have to add to make it add up.

thinking that it's complicated. there's no way around it. but it's the right thing. it's different but in a good way. and the net result is that we've got your back.. if you go over by a bit.. we wont even charge you for it. if you go by a lot but you dont usually do it.. we'll charge you a little.. and if you're always going over.. you really should upgrade to the higher tier but until you do, here's a little something to make you think twice about it.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
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join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

said by TSI Marc:

hum. that would mean that there's no reason to take anything other than the lowest usage package...

Final thought: a lot of guys have been suggesting a tier/price between 300GB and Unlimited. You could incorporate the automatic usage blocks AND the Unlimited plus $20 for 100GB over and up. Got to have an incentive for folks to play by the rules.

Straight up Unlimited plus $20 may unfairly penalize a user who simply downloads 5 or 10GB too much. Although that's a judgement call.

yeah.. my way.. my original post does exactly. that.

..so i'm inclined to stick with what I originally though but not even try to explain it and just say: you'll never pay more than $X above unlimited. for more details go here...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Doeboye

join:2006-11-07
Canada

25% higher then unlimited for the 150/10 Cable account seems a bit steep... My math shows a one month cost of $275 instead of $85...

Adding intermediary packages between unlimited and 300 for all speeds, with an extra penalty on top, might be the solution.

You go over your package limit, you get temporarily bumped to the next tier and penalized on top. That would stop people from gaming the system by taking the lowest tier always, as well as encourage people to select the correct tier for their usage. At the same time, someone who downloads an unusual amount of data one month, will not get overly penalized...

Combine that with a rolling average, and the people that go over a bit won't get penalized, while the abusers will pay the price...



TSI Marc
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um. my ideal situation is that everybody is in their right usage tier with no overages..

overges are a pain.. it changes the amount that comes out of your account.. so then you get in to things like NSF fees.. it causes all sorts of calls...
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



TypeS

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reply to TSI Marc

Man, I had too much to drink last night to make sense of half of what is being thrown around in this thread.

But I agree, the penalties should not let people just pick the lowest priced tier and abuse the system.

The simplest it could get is if Marc let go of his conscience for his customers and just charged per GB overage with either no cap or a very high overage cap likes Rogers. Of course that is not what anyone has come to expect of TSI, so hence the complex waters Marc is treading through to make it as fair as possible for both TSI and it's customers.



Davesnothere
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by Davesnothere:

said by TSI Marc:

I'm more leaning towards:

"The max you would pay is $X more than the unlimited tier."

things at this point.

 
...which is fine, but now, how do we GET there ?

IOW, by what cost steps per GB or whatever ?

voodoo majik!

you mean Tim-Bits


Davesnothere
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

....if you go over by a bit.. we wont even charge you for it. if you go by a lot but you dont usually do it.. we'll charge you a little.. and if you're always going over.. you really should upgrade to the higher tier but until you do, here's a little something to make you think twice about it.

 
And if your name is ANGELO, we HIRE you.

mlord

join:2006-11-05
Nepean, ON
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reply to TSI Marc

This discussion, originating from TSI Marc, is very encouraging. I do wish other ISPs would take note!

Waiting for the day when I can switch back to TSI on ATPIA!