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Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·GoDaddy Hosting
reply to Freddy

Re: [poll] What will happen with Win8?

To each his own, but to make a blanket statement that Metro's All Apps is easier to use then the start menu is pushing reality over a cliff for a lot of people. When I use Metro's "All Apps" I am blanketed with 5- 1920*1080 pixel screens of my programs. The same list is about 1/2 a 1920*1080 screen on the Start Menu. Every time I look for something it is like playing "Where's Waldo". You might say: "just start typing in the name of what you are looking for!" That works just great when you know the name of what you are looking for, but the fact that you are looking for it, really increases the odds you might not be exactly sure of the name of what you are looking for. Any program I use regularly is on my task bar or desktop. If I am looking for some particular tool I downloaded two years ago, it will only be on my program list and I probably don't know the name of it.

I'm not criticizing your post or hint about the shortcut. That is really useful information for someone that likes the Metro tool. I'm just not one of them.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:2

Click for full size
Picture #1
Click for full size
Picture #2
Click for full size
Picture #3
To add a bit more to what Freddy has said, the "All Apps" part of Metro is actually very easy to customize.

Let me explain.

If you look at Picture #1, you will see what my "All Apps" screen looks like.

Now, everything on that screen comes from the following directory: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs. If you look at Picture #2, you will see that.

Take note of the folder names: Applications, Games, Microsoft Office, and so on. If you look at the column headings on my Metro Screen, they match.

If I go to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\System Tools, you will see the icons that appear under the column heading "Windows System".

So, the bottom line is this: If you modify the directory that I referenced, you can fully customize how your "All Apps" screen looks like.

However, I do want to point out a few things that are important

1) DO NOT DELETE the shortcut "Desktop" from the folder structure. If you do that, you loose the icon for "Desktop" on the first screen in Metro (aka your start screen).

2) While the directory will show a folder for "Administrative Tools" as well as "Startup", they will not show on the "All Apps" screen. I think that is because they are some kind of administrative folders, that do not show up in Metro / Start Screen / All Apps. I know if you delete the folder "Administrative Tools", when you go to Control Panel, and then Administrative Tools, that FOLDER IS EMPTY in the control panel. That is where all the icons for "Administrative Tools" is stored. These include the shortcuts for "Event Viewer", "Services", Task Scheduler", and so on.

3) For some reason, changes to this do not happen automatically all the time. What I mean is, you can make some changes, and they happen right away. Others take a reboot to show up. I have attempted to try to figure out what causes the refresh to take place, but I do know if you reboot, whatever the current state of the directory folder(s) are, they will show up in that way inside of Metro on the "All Apps" screen.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·GoDaddy Hosting

I have almost two hundred items (mostly folders) in my Programs list. In order to find something, I have to scroll through 5 screens of Metro or just look at a half of a screen on the desktop using ClassicShell. The former is tedious+ and the latter is easy.


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

1 recommendation

The whole new UI design is a lemon... It works at a presentation time with small amount of programs installed. But it doesn't fit the real demand for actual work, where computer has a lot of programs / tools installed in different places. The only effective way to have a fast access to those is to use well organized (customized by user for his particular needs) menu... And I'm telling that from my experience of keeping hundreds of programs / tools in my computers organized this way. What was so wrong with that old and proven idea so it was abandoned now? I have no clue...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·GoDaddy Hosting

I'm with you. I could almost live with Metro were it not for a few things and that is on the top of my list.

I had someone who is a pretty advanced computer user tell me today she just used WIN8 for the first time and couldn't figure out how to show someone the way to restart their computer. We all know where that is of course. Inexplicably, it is found after you find the sweet spot (and breath a sigh of relief once you have done that) and get to the charm bar and then slide your mouse down to hit "settings" which is of course the most likely place one would find the option to reboot a computer. Then you have to go into the power menu. This is a person that for the first time had to sit down in front of a computer running Windows 8. I don't fault her at all for being confused. Using a mouse, shutting down the computer now involves one tedious hunt, a mouse shuffle and three clicks instead of two easy clicks in Windows 7. Basically the operation is more than twice as hard and you need to go on a treasure hunt to do it.


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

I perfectly remember several occasions, when I needed to safely shut down computer without even looking at monitor (for several different reasons). It was easy to do with XP - Win, Up, Enter and then 'S' (Shut down or 'R' if Restart) and press Enter again. Done... It was a lifesaver (meaning OS life or course) at that time...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx

1 recommendation

reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

I do wonder what people at Microsoft were thinking.

You're too generous.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by jap:

said by nwrickert:

I do wonder what people at Microsoft were thinking.

You're too generous.

Hehehehehe....

I think one of the root cause of confusion is that they 'redefined' certain aspects of how the mouse works.

Previously, in every system I know of, the user had to move the mouse cursor to over some item, and either something would happen automatically, or the user had to perform some action.

With Win8, the mouse has to be moved to areas with *nothing* in there but the desktop background, and if you're lucky and the cursor hit the right place (again, no clear indication of where it should be) something would pop up. Methinks that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
--
Wacky Races 2012!

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by aurgathor:

Previously, in every system I know of, the user had to move the mouse cursor to over some item, and either something would happen automatically, or the user had to perform some action.

Mac OS: hot corners. As far as I know, there's nothing 'visible' to see at the designated corners.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

2 edits

Haven't used a Mac in the last 17 years....

In any case, they shouldn't be copying Apple ( ), and hey should've put something in those corners, at least until users get used to that feature.

Edit:
According to the article you linked, the user has to explicitly set up hot corners, and that pretty much ensures that said user will be aware of that feature. Not so with Win8...



DrModem
Trust Your Doctor
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
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Reviews:
·exede by ViaSat
reply to Kramer

said by Kramer:

I have almost two hundred items (mostly folders) in my Programs list. In order to find something, I have to scroll through 5 screens of Metro or just look at a half of a screen on the desktop using ClassicShell. The former is tedious+ and the latter is easy.

You do know that you can just start typing from the main start screen and it will immediately search for whatever you are typing in the all programs screen right?


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·GoDaddy Hosting

1 recommendation

said by DrModem:

said by Kramer:

I have almost two hundred items (mostly folders) in my Programs list. In order to find something, I have to scroll through 5 screens of Metro or just look at a half of a screen on the desktop using ClassicShell. The former is tedious+ and the latter is easy.

You do know that you can just start typing from the main start screen and it will immediately search for whatever you are typing in the all programs screen right?

I'm quoting myself from a few posts back.

You might say: "just start typing in the name of what you are looking for!" That works just great when you know the name of what you are looking for, but the fact that you are looking for it, really increases the odds you might not be exactly sure of the name of what you are looking for. Any program I use regularly is on my task bar or desktop. If I am looking for some particular tool I downloaded two years ago, it will only be on my program list and I probably don't know the name of it.



DrModem
Trust Your Doctor
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1

Oh sorry didn't see that XD



Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to aurgathor

Love my Windows 8 Surface, love my Windows 8 Phone, and I do use Windows 8 as my main desktop OS, but it doesn't work as well as my Surface or Phone as it seems its caught between two worlds and hasn't fully made that jump across. I said a long time ago here when Windows 7 first came out that it was going to be the next XP as its a hell of an OS, but mobile devices seem to favor Windows 8 type OS as really I'm not going to cut code on a 10" screen, but I do enjoy consuming content with Windows 8 and that is the problem, most people in the world are only content consumers and so tablets etc work great for them and Microsoft had to respond to that market and I'd say they hit it pretty good, but the desktop belongs to content creators so the OS has to be a little different to accommodate their needs and I think Windows 8 has some work left to do here as do the apps as most of them are designed for Windows 7 so we end up with Windows 8 on the desktop having to have a foot in each camp and really doesn't work for either perfectly. Now I'm going to continue using Windows 8 as I need to write code for Windows 8 phones and Surface etc, but I do have some apps that I have to support that use Windows 7, but really Windows 8 isn't that bad and it is a workable bridge that I trust will only get better.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4

2 recommendations

I'm a content consumer but I have no interest in consuming content on a mobile device. I have a new desktop with Win 8. I have NO mobile devices and I purchased a new car that has no wif-fi, etc. I like consuming my content on a POWERFUL desktop with a nice Dell Ultrasharp monitor or on my Samsung Smart TV. When I am away from my home I have plenty of things to do and I don't need a mobile computing device to do any of them. I want to do my computing in the comfort of my home sitting at a desk in the proper ergonomic position (so I have no need of wireless in my home either).

I think Microsoft designed Win 8 SOLELY for young folks who do spend a lot of time running around like chickens with their heads chopped off...I used to do that and now I feel pretty silly when I look back at that mostly mindless hormone driven behavior. I get that young people are the future and that folks around my age are not. However, I think it is stupid and mindless that Microsoft did not do a few simple things so that folks like myself could also enjoy the latest OS. Very sad and condemning of Microsoft that I had to buy one program (and probably a second one soon) from a third party developer that more or less fixes Windows 8 so that desktop users can use it without wanting to tear their hair out.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Link Logger

said by Link Logger:

Love my Windows 8 Surface, love my Windows 8 Phone, and I do use Windows 8 as my main desktop OS, but it doesn't work as well as my Surface or Phone

Windows 8 works very well on the Surface (I actually like it better than Android), but the problem is that the majority of users are using Win8 on desktop PCs and laptops with no touch screen.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

I've run Windows 8 on a variety of different hardware both touch and non-touch. I personally find the difference between touch and more traditional mouse input to be relatively minor. That is to say the experience is very similar IMO.

Also note that touch isn't new. So of the touch supporting computers / screens that were available before Windows 8 ratified the spec many may not work as expected or unimpeded by some oddity.



Faster
Premium
join:2013-03-09
reply to aurgathor

Despite having used every MS OS from 3.1 on extensively up to and including Win 7 64 I actually really know very little about Windows 8. Especially, since I switched about two years ago to another OS as my main or primary OS instead Win 7.

However, as just a casual sideline observer I've all ways had the "gut" feeling based upon commercials for Win 8 and marketing examples of it in use is that it is the first MS OS and maybe main all device OS that is designed for the on the go all ways have a tablet and cellular phone in use plus it is trying to drive the market or users to the touch screen as the de facto standard or usual and customary interface v traditional displays.

As I say, just a gut feeling and impression.

One other thing subjectively that I can say for certainty is that the majority, not all, of the folks that I know that are long-time and heavy PC users having been life-long Windows users is that by far most are unhappy with Windows 8 and disappointed for a variety of reasons. I neither affirm or criticize their opinions, I'm just stating what I've encountered.

We all know MS has been a complete loser in the PR fix it department for the entire history of their existence so if it turns out that Windows 8 is not accepted what they will do? Based on past events unless they have a total mental makeover they will have to introduced a new replacement OS for Win 8.

Given their development, operational and marketing experience with Vista I'm surprised that they have gotten themselves into their current predicament with Windows 8.



NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06

Mostly, M$ just needs to let users of traditional desktops--no touch-enabled anything--choose the UI they want to use. None of them have a reason to replace the Win7 (or earlier Windows version) on their desktops with Win8. I expect large numbers of them who do happen to want a new desktop--still no touch-enabled anything--will find Win8 just plain annoying. For them, the only thing Metro/Modern does is get in the way.

I bought a notebook this week because I finally found the h/w features I've been waiting for at the price I wanted to pay. Naturally, it has Win8 on it. I've left the UI alone for now, treating it more as a screensaver app in and of itself (ooh, look... weather!). The trackpad is [multi]touch-enabled, but the screen isn't. What I'll do with it down the road... I don't know; but I use primarily portable apps, so the way I work won't change all that much (get to Desktop, start programs).
--
"Face piles of trials with smiles; it riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave."



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to aurgathor

There's an option you didn't list.

Bought out by Apple.

I have not used this version yet, even in trial mode, but understand the iPad / tablet / netbook type computer would benefit from such software, the hardware that is small and compact.

However, even though a lot of large desktop computers are coming out with touch screen, I think the mouse / keyboard can not just disappear to the extent this O/S is the only future.
More so specifically for the enterprise workstation, and smaller business.
I know a lot of home users will probably not even care, and as long as it is functional, it will sell.
I have feedback however already coming through of users and Office/Email concerns and it not working, and as a home based fixer/helper with no business for IT help, I can imagine tech shops would see a higher rate and it be of real concern.

But why copy Apple's model, that is going backwards in my view?

I can honestly see 2 arms of Microsoft at this point going forward for the future of computing, but as financial models of late rally around making money and cost-cutting more than ever before, and not specific to electronics, and the decline of a quality product that sells it self, I just hope we don't get cornered into just this design.

Each to their own.

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

said by norwegian:

There's an option you didn't list.

Bought out by Apple.

That is about as likely as an alien abduction of the whole Win8 UI team.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06

Maybe the Win8 UI team wants to go back home?



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

Apple has good office conditions.

Still, it makes me scratch my head on why "copy" Apple....What was so wrong to go this path?
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



ccallana
Huh?
Premium,VIP
join:2000-08-03
Folsom, CA
reply to Faster

said by Faster:

One other thing subjectively that I can say for certainty is that the majority, not all, of the folks that I know that are long-time and heavy PC users having been life-long Windows users is that by far most are unhappy with Windows 8 and disappointed for a variety of reasons. I neither affirm or criticize their opinions, I'm just stating what I've encountered.

You must have a very narrow set of people you have contact with - most of the people I know who have tried and used Windows 8 (actually trying to learn how to use it instead of giving up the second they encountered a new option) actually really like the interface and enjoy using it. To be fair, most of the people I know using it are software engineers, and are paid to use it. And they are the kind of people who by default try to find solutions to problems rather than expect the answers to be handed to them on a silver platter. As a group, we have also been using Win8 far longer than most people as we develop/test software (Graphics Drivers) that run on Windows, so we see things a lot earlier and have more time with them - as well as have direct interaction with Microsoft.

As for copying Apple, who *isn't* trying to copy something from Apple these days?
--
"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.... We are far too easily pleased." C.S. Lewis


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to norwegian

It's not copy Apple, it's go where the market is going, which is away from desktops.



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to ccallana

Microsoft is copying Apple and in more then one way but Apple takes ideas from other companies as well.

I've tried every publicly available prereleased version of Windows 8 and have a Technet subscription. In addition I also bought some Windows 8 Pro licenses. So I've been using Windows 8 for a while albeit not exclusively. I don't love it nor do I hate it but I have no problem using Windows 8 either way. I'm familiar with it and it didn't take long to get accustomed to it nor did I find the learning curve too harsh.

My Wife is a programmer / developer and one day her employer of many years switched from Windows to Apple hardware running OS X. She was given a Mac Book Pro for travel / working at home and a 27" iMac for office work. She didn't have a problem making such a switch but its the type of environment people expect to learn new things when (not if) needed.



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

It's not copy Apple, it's go where the market is going, which is away from desktops.

... except they tried to bring the desktop with them and failed. Apple's smart enough to know a different OS belongs for the right device, a mobile IOS on a mobile device and a desktop OS on a desktop computer.

From a UI perspective, Microsoft failed horribly with the desktop experience but did a decent job with the touch based experience.

or in other words, Microsoft tried to make a "jack of all trades, master of none."


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to Mele20

Welcome to reality Mele20 See Profile the older we get the fewer of us there are and the more of them young chickens there are and ultimately the less we matter. Big businesses like Microsoft have to focus on big numbers in order to stay big and given that IT has always been a young person world, either we stay young in mind and embrace change or we will be left behind. Remember we ourselves created change and created this world, we were agents of change and agents of change we must remain or change will pass us by as it did for the people who resisted the change we created. Kids today think they know the Internet and communication technology, they forget I was part of the group that created it, I have the advantage of knowing why it is the way it is and I can see where we made mistakes and why so hopefully I can avoid similar mistakes in future, they just see the finished product, so if I can remain an agent of change I will have so much the advantage.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to Faster

said by Faster:

We all know MS has been a complete loser in the PR fix it department for the entire history of their existence so if it turns out that Windows 8 is not accepted what they will do?

They just fix the deficiencies in the next version. Because of their dominant (near monopoly?) market share on the desktop PCs they can do that, and whatever sales they lose on Win8, they're likely to pick up on the next release.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to ccallana

said by ccallana:

most of the people I know who have tried and used Windows 8 (actually trying to learn how to use it instead of giving up the second they encountered a new option) actually really like the interface and enjoy using it. To be fair, most of the people I know using it are software engineers, and are paid to use it. And they are the kind of people who by default try to find solutions to problems rather than expect the answers to be handed to them on a silver platter.

There are people who has no other option (like the people you mentioned) or the consumers who can just return the whole system if they get frustrated with the UI.
--
Wacky Races 2012!