OS and Software > Microsoft Help > [poll] What will happen with Win8?

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Re: [poll] What will happen with Win8?

Which again had nothing to do with the comment, and modernmix is a 3rd party fix which shouldn't have been necessary. Modernmix is also not free.

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reply to Octavean
Octavean:

Im not sure you understand where I am coming from. When talking about Apple Computers and Laptops, they are running x86 hardware for the most part the same as a Desktop PC.

However the Apple Store based systems :ie the IPhone, Ipad, etc are running IOS in most cases ARM based systems.

Now Microsoft has stated ARM is the future for the Desktop. AMD is investing heavily in beginning to produce ARM chips that can be used more mainstream in desktop systems.

Windows RT is the future vision of Microsoft for the mainstream users...Windows RT, the ARM version of Windows, is a "walled garden" environment. Microsoft has no plans of changing that.

I fully believe Windows 8, and perhaps Windows 9 will be "transition OS" as Microsoft exhorts pressure on the OEM's to begin pushing ARM hardware for Windows.

Once Dell, HP, Acer, and the other OEM's are pushing ARM based desktops and laptops...the walled garden will begin. Microsoft has no intentions of opening up the ARM platform. The ARM platform, such as Windows RT will not run x86 based applications. The only way to install new programs on a RT based system is either by jailbreaking it, or through the Windows store.

In essence they are pushing for a walled garden environment.

Will Microsoft still sell a "pro version" of Windows that runs on x86 hardware? perhaps, but it won't be the mainstream offering. Prices for it will be much higher then the ARM counterpart they wish to push, and put front and center.

For the home user, only those that buy their own x86 hardware IE: System builders who build their own PC will be able to afford to have an x86 based machine.

ARM desktops could sell for as little as $250 bucks....a comparible x86 based machine would cost twice as much....whats the consumer going to buy? I know it, and MS knows it...they will buy the ARM one that is a walled garden and a cash cow for Microsoft.

Those who think a walled garden is not in the future for Windows on the desktop is not paying attention. Microsoft has already locked down the ARM RT version of Windows...it won't run any apps outside the Windows Store under most circumstances.

Microsoft gets 30% cut of all sales made through the store...this is why Microsoft is pushing Metro...they want to get the "masses" (I say tongue in cheek) assimilated to the UI that will lead to the future walled garden known as Windows.

In the future, if you don't want to be restricted to a walled garden....you will have to pay handsomely to do so....

the OEM's may not even sell x86 based systems to home users at all...as being restricted to the walledgarden known as the Windows Store will greatly reduce technical support costs and increase the OEM's bottom line.

These are all issues to think long and hard about....in the future Windows that isn't stuck to a walledgarden will be available...but you will pay a premium price on it, and outside of buying Businesses editions from the OEM(that most home/consumer buyers doesn't even know exists) building a PC by buying your own hardware will be the only real cost effective option of doing so.

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Just like their vision of Zune being successful in the market?

reply to Woody79_00

Octavean: in my first post I meant to include ARM devices, but perhaps may have gotten lost as I was also posting a reply on another site with a similar topic. The lack of ARM devices in my first post was clearly the disconnect, which I apologize for the confusion.

As for your comments on the industry's direction, I agree with you. Even though Windows RT isn't selling well right now, it may in the future now that the Xbox and Its apps are locked into the same platform/Windows Store. the new Xbox is slated to debut before years end.

Windows RT may be a platform Microsoft is willing to take losses on in the short term and invest heavily in it, for benefits accrued later.

(See Bing search, it has made major strides in the market the last few years, it has actually become a small competitor and will continue to gain market in that area as long as MS continues to promote it. Bing is making slow progess, but it is gaining users every quarter, it may be a slow process but MS will get a decent share of the market as long as they continue the improvements and basis of their stated mission with bing.)

I agree that switching to Linux won't save us from hardware prices going up.

I also agree about AMD/Intel having a lot to lose with an ARM takeover. Its why im hoping Intel and AMD can price their Jaguar and Atom platforms around the same power, efficency, and price comparable or cheaper then the ARM chips....that will be key in keeping x86 around mainstream.

As long as x86-x64 is around and popular, the chances of being walled off is much less which is good for everyone all around including the consumer.

I also don't think its time to quake in our boots just yet, but depending on reception, and various other factors. It may be an idea Microsoft explores at some point in the future...that is something yet to be determined.

good conversation by the way Octaven Very good, well reasoned and thought out responses! I hope your monday at the office is treating you well!

Thanks, I enjoy our talks too

I do respect your point of view,...

I'm actually on something of a vacation right now but am getting snowed out (yesterday) and rained out (today) but I'm cool with it.

Anyway, I think Intel can and will bring the fight to ARM devices in due time. It does sort of make some sense for AMD to make ARM chips and X86 / X64 chips as well though. There are even rumors that Intel foundries are in talks for ARM manufacturing too,...

As oddball as it might be I'm interested in buying the ASUS Fonepad which is Android on Intel Atom:

ASUS FonePad official: 7-inch tablet with phone functionality, priced at $249 (hands-on) Hands-on

It seems reasonably cheap and functional. It could serve as a nice GPS for the car (I think) and an in car phone (if I forget my phone).

I don't think the history is written just yet, Intel has a chance to pull this out of the fire.

Microsoft has money to throw at their problems but with Zune they proved that they were also willing to cut their losses and run. So who knows how hard they are willing to push Windows RT. Still, Windows RT seems like or feels like (IMO) the answer to a question a lot of people never asked.

One thing is for sure though. Intel and Microsoft's WinTel alliance was in lockstep for quite some time (AMD as well). Something happened to fracture that covenant

reply to Woody79_00
And where exactly in that article Michael Angiulo states that "ARM is the future for the Desktop"?

reply to Octavean

Well without knowing the full technical specs, I'd say x86/64 bit being a jack of all trades generally being a little slower than the more linear processors like gpus as they have a far bigger instruction set. I'd almost say if they could drop some legacy from the x86 instructions which would unfortunately cause problems for some software, and operating systems would allow them to be faster on the same or less power. It would just mean that this new hardware would need a new os, and newer software, however even adoption of 64-bit software on Win 64-bit has been slow with many still only releasing 32-bit software. All tablets currently to my knowledge with the exception of the surface pro are 32-bit.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.

Adding to the instruction set seems to be the way of the industry rather then detracting from it. Some special cases might call for it though, I wouldn't really know,...

My aging ASUS Eee slate EP121 Core i5 tablet PC pre-dates Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge but is still reasonably powerful. It shipped with the 64bit version of Windows 7 Home Premium and now runs Windows 8 Pro 64bit. Microsoft Surface Pro isn't really anything new. It seems to be getting undue attention due to being Microsoft branded and it seems some people didn't even know PC tablets existed until Microsoft brought attention to it with the Surface Pro.

One thing I find interesting though is Ubuntu for Smartphones and tablets. My main interest here is that apperently it can be installed on a range of ARM devices. until now, i havent really come across an OS that was intended to be installed on devices that originally shipped with dissimilar OSes.

Why should anyone care about this? Well that is the type of flexibility that helped Microsoft gain such a large market share. If a company comes along with a slick OS that can be installed over iOS, Android and Windows RT devices it could erode the market for these companies,....especially if its an easy to use relatively open platform.

Even if such an OS doesn't take over ARM devices it could force the popular ARM OSes into being a little more flexible and open. It could also force them to support their hardware longer or risk it running a competing OS,....