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george357
Premium
join:2009-09-18
Weaverville, NC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Charter

1 recommendation

reply to La Luna

Re: [poll] What will happen with Win8?

said by La Luna:

I chose #7.

I don't really care what they do as I love Windows 7 and will be sticking with that for as long as possible. Windows 7 is a great OS, probably the best I've used.

^This! Absolutely agree!
--
malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

Cancer Cures Are Just A Crunch Away


Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK
reply to BlitzenZeus
said by BlitzenZeus:

Honestly after using ubuntu it's definitely useable, and an alternative, however when I was previously running ubuntu it was all over the place with it's support.

Please don't form an opinion of Linux based on Ubuntu. New releases are pushed out of the door way too soon and would benefit greatly with far more testing and debugging.
--
Overflow error in /dev/null


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to aurgathor
said by aurgathor:

said by NOYB:

and also Windows 8 is fine as is

There is plenty of hard evidence showing that Windows 8, at least the UI, is not fine as-is. Some people may like it, but this poll is not about personal like or dislike.

While the poll itself isn't based on personal likes or dislikes (as you said) it is asking "What will happen with Win8?" for a reason. You cited usage numbers with a link in your initial post but such numbers can be influenced by likes and dislikes among other things.

Some of the options you provided in the poll suggest there is an inherent flaw with the new Windows 8 UI as well as you just about saying as much directly in your above post.

I neither like or dislike the new UI (or maybe there is a balance between the two that negate the choices) but I do find it "serviceable". So such an assertion of a flaw seems more like opinion,......IMO.

I understand that the Windows 8 UI is not well liked by a very vocal group but I'm not clear on if this group is capable of separating their opinion (dislike) from real flaws (bugs).


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Octavean:

I understand that the Windows 8 UI is not well liked by a very vocal group but I'm not clear on if this group is capable of separating their opinion (dislike) from real flaws (bugs).

In any company I've worked for, if a new design did not work as well as the previous one in the eyes of the customer, it was considered flawed. It had nothing to do with bugs but how well the product performed the task the customer expected.
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

"Omne ignotum pro magnifico."


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Octavean
When a small number of people doesn't like something, that can chalked up to variations in taste and one can claim that those people have certain shortcomings. But when the majority of users are unhappy with something and don't buy the product, or return other products (computers) in large numbers because of a usability issue with the OS installed on them, that's a bit more than just a personal dislike of a small number of people.

If you learned to drive a car with a steering wheel, brake and accelerator, you may have issues if you suddenly got one with just a joystick.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
said by aurgathor:

When a small number of people doesn't like something, that can chalked up to variations in taste and one can claim that those people have certain shortcomings. But when the majority of users are unhappy with something and don't buy the product, or return other products (computers) in large numbers because of a usability issue with the OS installed on them, that's a bit more than just a personal dislike of a small number of people.

If you learned to drive a car with a steering wheel, brake and accelerator, you may have issues if you suddenly got one with just a joystick.

Large group or a small group concurrence doesn't mean flaw or defect. Its evidence of agreement by those choosing to opt out of buying / using Windows 8. Its not evidence of why. Nor is it evidence of that "why" being a "flaw".

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
said by Octavean:

said by aurgathor:

When a small number of people doesn't like something, that can chalked up to variations in taste and one can claim that those people have certain shortcomings. But when the majority of users are unhappy with something and don't buy the product, or return other products (computers) in large numbers because of a usability issue with the OS installed on them, that's a bit more than just a personal dislike of a small number of people.

If you learned to drive a car with a steering wheel, brake and accelerator, you may have issues if you suddenly got one with just a joystick.

Large group or a small group concurrence doesn't mean flaw or defect. Its evidence of agreement by those choosing to opt out of buying / using Windows 8. Its not evidence of why. Nor is it evidence of that "why" being a "flaw".

When the majority of people don't buy something and/or don't like or accept it, that's pretty good evidence that something is not right. Unless the company's goal is to sell as little as possible of that product...


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
I don't think there has been any establishment of majority or quantity of people not buying or liking Windows 8 due to the UI. Furthermore an initial perception of a change from what a person is accustom to may be overcome with experience of the "new".

I know for me it was at first glance, uh no way this is not for me. But then once I had a few days usage and became accustom to getting around in the new UI. It's no big deal. Spend most of the time in desktop view anyway with commonly used apps either pined to desktop or task bar. So rarely go to the new UI.

Most people I've heard talking trash about the new UI are just echoing sentiments of others they've heard and clam up when I start drilling them on it. Usually they just haven't learned to use it yet. People can be so sheeple sometimes.

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Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
56% of the people polled here think that "MS will quietly abandon Windows 8"... that's a majority, and you don't "quietly abandon" anything except a failure.

I also think most of the people here (in this poll anyway) have probably actually used it for some period of time, and have formed definite opinions about it. I know I have, for a few months. Let's face it. It's not a good thing....


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Kerodo
said by Kerodo:

said by Octavean:

said by aurgathor:

When a small number of people doesn't like something, that can chalked up to variations in taste and one can claim that those people have certain shortcomings. But when the majority of users are unhappy with something and don't buy the product, or return other products (computers) in large numbers because of a usability issue with the OS installed on them, that's a bit more than just a personal dislike of a small number of people.

If you learned to drive a car with a steering wheel, brake and accelerator, you may have issues if you suddenly got one with just a joystick.

Large group or a small group concurrence doesn't mean flaw or defect. Its evidence of agreement by those choosing to opt out of buying / using Windows 8. Its not evidence of why. Nor is it evidence of that "why" being a "flaw".

When the majority of people don't buy something and/or don't like or accept it, that's pretty good evidence that something is not right. Unless the company's goal is to sell as little as possible of that product...

A beef salesman wonders why he can't sell any of his product to the people around him,....the meat must be bad he thought, he was sure of it. Little did he know that the people around him were all Hindu and were therefore culturally / religiously predisposed to never consume such a meat product.

With Windows and its users, years of experience with a specific set of expectations (like the Start button for example) may predispose users to a similar phenomena resulting in unceremonious rejection of anything signicently different,.......such as Windows 8.

It may be a subtle point but I am not questioning the existence of a phenomena but rather its cause or causes.

Saying the equivalent of "something is rotten in the state of Denmark" is vague at best. It doesn't even come close,...

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08

1 recommendation

I think the root cause of the dissatisfaction with 8 is Metro. In a nutshell, it simply has no appropriate place on any non-touch oriented desktop or laptop. When people see it there, they wonder why it's there at all, and they find it's in their way, slowing down their work and productivity, and their main thought and wish is that it would just disappear. They don't like how it's being forced on them, they don't like how their pdf's and pictures and music all open in the idiotic Metro apps by default, and they find it annoying. It doesn't really get any plainer or simpler than that.....


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to aurgathor
What majority is that?

Positive:720
Neutral:127
Negative:578

»www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows···indows+8

Ratings of previous Windows versions

»Re: [WIN8] Just how much do people hate Windows 8
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
That's just polling the people who bought it, a small number. What about all the masses who didn't buy it? And of those who did buy it, that's a pretty terrible rating overall....


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
reply to Kerodo
Fine that you have formed your own opinion, as have I. Many have not and are simply echo's of others sentiments. Which is what I witness most of the time.

But to cite the poll here as representative of the majority of users is pathetic at best.

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Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to digitalfutur
This is from Newegg. 90% of the reviewers of Windows 7 gave it 4 or 5 eggs. Only 3% gave Windows 7 one egg. Windows 8 received 28% one egg. That is amazingly bad. 50% gave it four or five eggs. Imagine what the numbers would be if Microsoft only applied Metro to touch enabled hardware.

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to NOYB
Lol... it always amuses me to see how some defend the disaster.. We will all see how this turns out in time...


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
reply to Kramer
Still not representative of the masses.

Probably mostly "geeks".
Relatively very small sample size.
After low bar set by Vista geeks are naturally going to be favorable the successor Windows 7.
After Windows 7 the bar is much higher for it's successor Windows 8. So anything less than perceived perfection is going to meet resistance.

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OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to NOYB
said by NOYB:

But to cite the poll here as representative of the majority of users is pathetic at best.

When Vista came, some folks here always made the pitch - you have to install it before you can tell that you don't like it and why... (in plain text that means - pay money to the company first and then you may express what you think about the product). It was a nice marketing trick at that time...

Now, with W8, there is another one - taking into consideration the opinion of majority of users is pathetic at best. Who cares about majority of users. They can't learn how to use it, because they're obtuse, don't want or simply can't learn. Buy it yourself without looking at polls and see...

I wonder, what trick they will use to sell W9?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to Octavean
Why does everyone say the lack of the Start button is the big problem? It is not the deal breaker with Win 8. The deal breaker is the god-awful Charms bar and the huge, ugly, black, redundant clock that keeps popping up constantly when you don't need them. Besides, both are extremely hideous and can't be changed at all. Then there is the fact that the gigantic black clock is totally unneeded. There is a clock on the task bar. Why would Microsoft foist ANOTHER one of gigantic size onto the user? Why would anyone need TWO clocks? And the name "Charms" bar is so insulting...childish and dumb...just that damn bar.

I could live without the Start menu if the Charms bar had a better name and looked appealing with appealing icons and never popped up unless I called it. As for the hideous clock...I am not blind so I don't require a gigantic black clock popping up constantly for no reason. The user should be able to dismiss it entirely. Plus, the fact that it and the Charms bar are married to each other (so they always appear together) is another total inanity. In contrast, the lack of a Start button is not welcome but not nearly as bad as the other two items.

I wonder if I had this if I would feel differently?
»www.amazon.com/Logitech-Recharge···093H4WT6

Since I just have a laser mouse, I had to get Start8 to stop the Charms bar and the big black clock from almost constantly popping up except when I needed the Charms bar and then nothing would get it to pop up).

--
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Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to NOYB
said by NOYB:


Still not representative of the masses.

Probably mostly "geeks".
Relatively very small sample size.
After low bar set by Vista geeks are naturally going to be favorable the successor Windows 7.
After Windows 7 the bar is much higher for it's successor Windows 8. So anything less than perceived perfection is going to meet resistance.

If anything "geeks" would be more inclined to like Windows 8, then dislike it by my estimate. The problem with these ratings is not sample size, but sample randomness, which you are pretty much alluding to. Unhappy people generally tend to fill in these surveys more than happy people. If I see a dissatisfaction rate of 20% or less (noted by one or two eggs) on Newegg, I usually ignore that. A dissatisfaction rate of 40% shouldn't be ignored. It is an abysmal score. If you are trying to argue that Windows 8 is a resounding success, then we don't have a lot to discuss. Clearly WIN8 has failed in the marketplace.

I'm not sure how I would rate Windows 8 at Newegg, were I to do so. There are many advances worth commending. I think the UI fails for businesses, but for the home user, you can either learn it or install third party software to get around it. The biggest question I have about Windows 8 concerns the very large gamble that Microsoft has made that touch is the future. I'm not so sure that is a wise gamble when it comes to business or serious home use. There is no doubt that MS sees Metro as the future UI. They have to convince a lot of developers to gamble their future on that. When we moved from DOS to Windows, the process took ten years but I don't remember the resistance I see with Metro. No one disliked Windows 3 for it not for the instability and constant GPFs. It was fun to use as long as it would run. Once there are some serious apps for Metro, we shall see. Right now Metro exists like Windows 2 existed. There was no compelling reason to use Windows 2 as there is no compelling reason to use Metro. The first people I ran into that used Windows did wysiwyg professionally. They published a newspaper. That was a substantial argument for the GUI. What will be Metro's substantial argument? Touch?


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Why does everyone say the lack of the Start button is the big problem? It is not the deal breaker with Win 8. The deal breaker is the god-awful Charms bar and the huge, ugly, black, redundant clock that keeps popping up constantly when you don't need them. Besides, both are extremely hideous and can't be changed at all. Then there is the fact that the gigantic black clock is totally unneeded. There is a clock on the task bar. Why would Microsoft foist ANOTHER one of gigantic size onto the user? Why would anyone need TWO clocks? And the name "Charms" bar is so insulting...childish and dumb...just that damn bar.

I could live without the Start menu if the Charms bar had a better name and looked appealing with appealing icons and never popped up unless I called it. As for the hideous clock...I am not blind so I don't require a gigantic black clock popping up constantly for no reason. The user should be able to dismiss it entirely. Plus, the fact that it and the Charms bar are married to each other (so they always appear together) is another total inanity. In contrast, the lack of a Start button is not welcome but not nearly as bad as the other two items.

I wonder if I had this if I would feel differently?
»www.amazon.com/Logitech-Recharge···093H4WT6

Since I just have a laser mouse, I had to get Start8 to stop the Charms bar and the big black clock from almost constantly popping up except when I needed the Charms bar and then nothing would get it to pop up).

I said "like the Start button for example". I didn't say I thought that was definitely the issue but a lot of people have complained about it just the same. Not me personally because I can navigate easily enough with or without it.

Anyway, I hear what you are saying. I also hear that some people may take issue with other things but none of what I have heard you say actually constitutes a flaw or defect IMO. What I'm hearing is a preference and opinion based on likes and dislikes.

I can say that I am more then a little surprised someone would take such issue with something as inane as a name,...especially if it isn't offensive in some way,..

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Octavean:

I can say that I am more then a little surprised someone would take such issue with something as inane as a name,...especially if it isn't offensive in some way,..

I must say I don't like "charms", but then again I dislike much Windows GUI verbiage: I don't like the "my" prefix on some file system directories ("My Documents", etc); I don't much like the concept of "favourites" as opposed to say "bookmarks" (favourites indicates some degree of emotional involvement that I just don't have); and so on. I prefer neutral terms; the Windows guys seem to try too hard to make up appealing terms, and they fail to appeal to me.

But I don't go as far as some members of this forum and experience this poor choice of naming as "insulting". "Insulting" indicates some degree of emotional involvement that I just don't have.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
Yeah I don't get the emotional end of it either. Beyond that a rose by any other name IMO,....


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to Kramer
said by Kramer:

said by BillRoland:

Its even worse when you realize they were almost giving it away for several months.

The first thing Microsoft needs to do is oust Steve Ballmer. This company has been completely adrift since Bill Gates left.

I'm not sure Gates doesn't deserve some of the blame too. I'm not sure Microsoft ever had the ability to innovate, but whatever ability it had disappeared long before Gates left the company.

People don't get windows for innovation, they get windows to be able to work.

The only innovation MS needs to worry about is integrating new tech into the OS so people don't have to install crappy 3rd part hacks to get things to work. (Bluetooth I'm looking at you)
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Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

I was really being unfair. Microsoft has innovated quite a bit. The improvements we look forward to with every Windows release are a good example. The innovations are mostly transparent, but they do exist. There are lots of creative people at MS. You don't succeed as a technology company over the long term without innovating. It is the blockbuster innovations that MS so sorely needs to create. The iPads, the Facebooks, the iTunes, the search engines and infrastructure. You can't lead from behind but for so long. I get frustrated that that is basically what Microsoft has done during their modern history. It has cost the company dearly.