Microsoft → [poll] What will happen with Win8?

I didn't have any problem learning the new UI. However, I do find it unnecessarily tedious to use.

I learned how to use Win95 just by simply clicking on things -- no manual, no asking questions, no searching on the internet, and every subsequent version was similar enough that I was able to use them at once without learning. But for Win8, especially on the desktop with no touch -- most everything was a royal PITA. It wasn't obvious if I put the mouse into upper right corner, sometimes the charm bar would appear. But for whatever reason, sometimes it took it took more time than other, and other times when I was moving the mouse down, it would disappear, so I had to get it on the screen again. Arrvgghhhh!!!! (the charm bar works just fine with touch screens, BTW)

After a bit of search I found out that I can also get to the charm bar with Windows-C, and now with Classic Shell and shortcuts on my desktop Win8 works almost as well as other versions.

In any case, I can fully understand why people could get frustrated with it -- the current UI is piss poor on traditional desktops without enhancements.

People say that on every release, and I don't really see how they would expect it to be different.

Version N+1 of software is built on version N. (Now and then, some fool programmer thinks they really should start from scratch again, and the result is always a marketing disaster: incompatibility, slipped schedules, etc).

The much-vaunted Windows XP was built on Windows 2000 which was built on Windows NT; XP was only knock-your-socks off if you were not previously using the NT lineage, but instead came from DOS-based Windows (3.1, 95, 98) which *was* an entirely diferent OS.

Me, I'm happy if version N+1 simply fixes any problems of version N, and keeps up with trends in hardware. I prefer to keep my socks in place.

win 8 will still be there but i'll be using linux suse

or linux xxx with all that data compatible almost free productivity software.

The software I needed were admittedly old. The one that caused me the most grief was a proprietary controller app for a spectrophotometer. I didn't try a lot of others since this is what I needed to work and I knew it worked on Win7. I admit to not trying hard enough but I needed it. I was hoping to dual boot but from what I read that's tricky when Win8 is installed first.

I haven't given up on Win 8. What I did was pull the drive with Win 8. Put in one I had here and installed Win 7. When I have the time and desire, I'll revisit it.

When Vista came out, Microsoft improved it and released Win 7. I would expect the same for windows 8. If sales really do drop off a cliff they're going to have to address it.

Earlier versions of windows 8 had the ability to make metro/start menu optional. If windows 8 really tanks now that the 39.99 offers are gone, I would imagine windows 9 would bring back that functionality.

I refused to buy windows 8 even though I know I can install 3rd party software to fix it. I don't want to give Microsoft the false impression that I support Metro or lack of a start menu.

The only way I'll upgrade is if they fix it, or if at some point win 7 becomes so obsolete I have no choice but to upgrade

All,

Many times people have posted on this forum that the Win8 All Apps screen contains all your programs, except it's easier to use than the Start menu. From the All Apps screen, you can launch any program, just like you could using the Win7 Start menu.

To make it easy to get to the All Apps screen from your desktop, you can create a desktop shortcut that takes you directly to the All Apps screen. To make a shortcut, right-click on your desktop and select New > Shortcut. Copy and paste the following text into the Location box, and then click Next:

%windir%\explorer.exe shell:::{2559a1f8-21d7-11d4-bdaf-00c04f60b9f0}

Name the shortcut All Apps (or whatever you want), and then click Finish. Now, a shortcut to the All Apps screen appears on your desktop.

The All Apps screen includes a full-screen list of all the programs on your computer, or you can start typing the name of a file to initiate a search for a program.

I include an image of my desktop to show what the shortcut looks like on my system. I found some nice icons on the Internet to use on the shortcuts. I'm using a picture of an Angry Bird to designate the All Apps shortcut.

On the desktop, I've also created shortcuts to other programs so that I don't always have to use the All Apps screen to launch a program.

You don't actually need a Start menu. The All Apps screen is easier to use.

Freddy

That pretty much is how I learned to use Win8.

To be fair, I was under no pressure and in no hurry. I really bought the computer to convert to a linux box. But I took a little time exploring Win8. I left Win8 there, and added a second hard drive for linux. But if I need the disk space, then Win8 will go.

I do wonder what people at Microsoft were thinking. They could have provide a choice of user interfaces, instead of foisting a smart-phone interface on desktop users.

This was their Grand Mistake....

They need to roll out and update quickly to allow for traditional UI. Nothing wrong with the last one. "If it ain't broke ___________".

The UI is "okay" if you're using a tablet.

To each his own, but to make a blanket statement that Metro's All Apps is easier to use then the start menu is pushing reality over a cliff for a lot of people. When I use Metro's "All Apps" I am blanketed with 5- 1920*1080 pixel screens of my programs. The same list is about 1/2 a 1920*1080 screen on the Start Menu. Every time I look for something it is like playing "Where's Waldo". You might say: "just start typing in the name of what you are looking for!" That works just great when you know the name of what you are looking for, but the fact that you are looking for it, really increases the odds you might not be exactly sure of the name of what you are looking for. Any program I use regularly is on my task bar or desktop. If I am looking for some particular tool I downloaded two years ago, it will only be on my program list and I probably don't know the name of it.

I'm not criticizing your post or hint about the shortcut. That is really useful information for someone that likes the Metro tool. I'm just not one of them.

To add a bit more to what Freddy has said, the "All Apps" part of Metro is actually very easy to customize.

Let me explain.

If you look at Picture #1, you will see what my "All Apps" screen looks like.

Now, everything on that screen comes from the following directory: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs. If you look at Picture #2, you will see that.

Take note of the folder names: Applications, Games, Microsoft Office, and so on. If you look at the column headings on my Metro Screen, they match.

If I go to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\System Tools, you will see the icons that appear under the column heading "Windows System".

So, the bottom line is this: If you modify the directory that I referenced, you can fully customize how your "All Apps" screen looks like.

However, I do want to point out a few things that are important

1) DO NOT DELETE the shortcut "Desktop" from the folder structure. If you do that, you loose the icon for "Desktop" on the first screen in Metro (aka your start screen).

2) While the directory will show a folder for "Administrative Tools" as well as "Startup", they will not show on the "All Apps" screen. I think that is because they are some kind of administrative folders, that do not show up in Metro / Start Screen / All Apps. I know if you delete the folder "Administrative Tools", when you go to Control Panel, and then Administrative Tools, that FOLDER IS EMPTY in the control panel. That is where all the icons for "Administrative Tools" is stored. These include the shortcuts for "Event Viewer", "Services", Task Scheduler", and so on.

3) For some reason, changes to this do not happen automatically all the time. What I mean is, you can make some changes, and they happen right away. Others take a reboot to show up. I have attempted to try to figure out what causes the refresh to take place, but I do know if you reboot, whatever the current state of the directory folder(s) are, they will show up in that way inside of Metro on the "All Apps" screen.

--Brian

I have almost two hundred items (mostly folders) in my Programs list. In order to find something, I have to scroll through 5 screens of Metro or just look at a half of a screen on the desktop using ClassicShell. The former is tedious+ and the latter is easy.

The whole new UI design is a lemon... It works at a presentation time with small amount of programs installed. But it doesn't fit the real demand for actual work, where computer has a lot of programs / tools installed in different places. The only effective way to have a fast access to those is to use well organized (customized by user for his particular needs) menu... And I'm telling that from my experience of keeping hundreds of programs / tools in my computers organized this way. What was so wrong with that old and proven idea so it was abandoned now? I have no clue...

I'm with you. I could almost live with Metro were it not for a few things and that is on the top of my list.

I had someone who is a pretty advanced computer user tell me today she just used WIN8 for the first time and couldn't figure out how to show someone the way to restart their computer. We all know where that is of course. Inexplicably, it is found after you find the sweet spot (and breath a sigh of relief once you have done that) and get to the charm bar and then slide your mouse down to hit "settings" which is of course the most likely place one would find the option to reboot a computer. Then you have to go into the power menu. This is a person that for the first time had to sit down in front of a computer running Windows 8. I don't fault her at all for being confused. Using a mouse, shutting down the computer now involves one tedious hunt, a mouse shuffle and three clicks instead of two easy clicks in Windows 7. Basically the operation is more than twice as hard and you need to go on a treasure hunt to do it.

I perfectly remember several occasions, when I needed to safely shut down computer without even looking at monitor (for several different reasons). It was easy to do with XP - Win, Up, Enter and then 'S' (Shut down or 'R' if Restart) and press Enter again. Done... It was a lifesaver (meaning OS life or course) at that time...

You're too generous.

Hehehehehe....

I think one of the root cause of confusion is that they 'redefined' certain aspects of how the mouse works.

Previously, in every system I know of, the user had to move the mouse cursor to over some item, and either something would happen automatically, or the user had to perform some action.

With Win8, the mouse has to be moved to areas with *nothing* in there but the desktop background, and if you're lucky and the cursor hit the right place (again, no clear indication of where it should be) something would pop up. Methinks that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Mac OS: hot corners. As far as I know, there's nothing 'visible' to see at the designated corners.

Haven't used a Mac in the last 17 years....

In any case, they shouldn't be copying Apple ( ), and hey should've put something in those corners, at least until users get used to that feature.

Edit:
According to the article you linked, the user has to explicitly set up hot corners, and that pretty much ensures that said user will be aware of that feature. Not so with Win8...

You do know that you can just start typing from the main start screen and it will immediately search for whatever you are typing in the all programs screen right?

I'm quoting myself from a few posts back.

Oh sorry didn't see that XD

Love my Windows 8 Surface, love my Windows 8 Phone, and I do use Windows 8 as my main desktop OS, but it doesn't work as well as my Surface or Phone as it seems its caught between two worlds and hasn't fully made that jump across. I said a long time ago here when Windows 7 first came out that it was going to be the next XP as its a hell of an OS, but mobile devices seem to favor Windows 8 type OS as really I'm not going to cut code on a 10" screen, but I do enjoy consuming content with Windows 8 and that is the problem, most people in the world are only content consumers and so tablets etc work great for them and Microsoft had to respond to that market and I'd say they hit it pretty good, but the desktop belongs to content creators so the OS has to be a little different to accommodate their needs and I think Windows 8 has some work left to do here as do the apps as most of them are designed for Windows 7 so we end up with Windows 8 on the desktop having to have a foot in each camp and really doesn't work for either perfectly. Now I'm going to continue using Windows 8 as I need to write code for Windows 8 phones and Surface etc, but I do have some apps that I have to support that use Windows 7, but really Windows 8 isn't that bad and it is a workable bridge that I trust will only get better.

Blake

I'm a content consumer but I have no interest in consuming content on a mobile device. I have a new desktop with Win 8. I have NO mobile devices and I purchased a new car that has no wif-fi, etc. I like consuming my content on a POWERFUL desktop with a nice Dell Ultrasharp monitor or on my Samsung Smart TV. When I am away from my home I have plenty of things to do and I don't need a mobile computing device to do any of them. I want to do my computing in the comfort of my home sitting at a desk in the proper ergonomic position (so I have no need of wireless in my home either).

I think Microsoft designed Win 8 SOLELY for young folks who do spend a lot of time running around like chickens with their heads chopped off...I used to do that and now I feel pretty silly when I look back at that mostly mindless hormone driven behavior. I get that young people are the future and that folks around my age are not. However, I think it is stupid and mindless that Microsoft did not do a few simple things so that folks like myself could also enjoy the latest OS. Very sad and condemning of Microsoft that I had to buy one program (and probably a second one soon) from a third party developer that more or less fixes Windows 8 so that desktop users can use it without wanting to tear their hair out.

Windows 8 works very well on the Surface (I actually like it better than Android), but the problem is that the majority of users are using Win8 on desktop PCs and laptops with no touch screen.

I've run Windows 8 on a variety of different hardware both touch and non-touch. I personally find the difference between touch and more traditional mouse input to be relatively minor. That is to say the experience is very similar IMO.

Also note that touch isn't new. So of the touch supporting computers / screens that were available before Windows 8 ratified the spec many may not work as expected or unimpeded by some oddity.

Despite having used every MS OS from 3.1 on extensively up to and including Win 7 64 I actually really know very little about Windows 8. Especially, since I switched about two years ago to another OS as my main or primary OS instead Win 7.

However, as just a casual sideline observer I've all ways had the "gut" feeling based upon commercials for Win 8 and marketing examples of it in use is that it is the first MS OS and maybe main all device OS that is designed for the on the go all ways have a tablet and cellular phone in use plus it is trying to drive the market or users to the touch screen as the de facto standard or usual and customary interface v traditional displays.

As I say, just a gut feeling and impression.

One other thing subjectively that I can say for certainty is that the majority, not all, of the folks that I know that are long-time and heavy PC users having been life-long Windows users is that by far most are unhappy with Windows 8 and disappointed for a variety of reasons. I neither affirm or criticize their opinions, I'm just stating what I've encountered.

We all know MS has been a complete loser in the PR fix it department for the entire history of their existence so if it turns out that Windows 8 is not accepted what they will do? Based on past events unless they have a total mental makeover they will have to introduced a new replacement OS for Win 8.

Given their development, operational and marketing experience with Vista I'm surprised that they have gotten themselves into their current predicament with Windows 8.

Mostly, M$ just needs to let users of traditional desktops--no touch-enabled anything--choose the UI they want to use. None of them have a reason to replace the Win7 (or earlier Windows version) on their desktops with Win8. I expect large numbers of them who do happen to want a new desktop--still no touch-enabled anything--will find Win8 just plain annoying. For them, the only thing Metro/Modern does is get in the way.

I bought a notebook this week because I finally found the h/w features I've been waiting for at the price I wanted to pay. Naturally, it has Win8 on it. I've left the UI alone for now, treating it more as a screensaver app in and of itself (ooh, look... weather!). The trackpad is [multi]touch-enabled, but the screen isn't. What I'll do with it down the road... I don't know; but I use primarily portable apps, so the way I work won't change all that much (get to Desktop, start programs).

There's an option you didn't list.

Bought out by Apple.

I have not used this version yet, even in trial mode, but understand the iPad / tablet / netbook type computer would benefit from such software, the hardware that is small and compact.

However, even though a lot of large desktop computers are coming out with touch screen, I think the mouse / keyboard can not just disappear to the extent this O/S is the only future.
More so specifically for the enterprise workstation, and smaller business.
I know a lot of home users will probably not even care, and as long as it is functional, it will sell.
I have feedback however already coming through of users and Office/Email concerns and it not working, and as a home based fixer/helper with no business for IT help, I can imagine tech shops would see a higher rate and it be of real concern.

But why copy Apple's model, that is going backwards in my view?

I can honestly see 2 arms of Microsoft at this point going forward for the future of computing, but as financial models of late rally around making money and cost-cutting more than ever before, and not specific to electronics, and the decline of a quality product that sells it self, I just hope we don't get cornered into just this design.

Each to their own.