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Jayar

join:2005-01-16
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to geokilla

Re: [Cable] Unfair $5 Cost for Rogers Speed Change.

said by geokilla:

said by TSI Marc:

we'll add it to the web site.. that's purely an error that it's not listed.

...read the tariff, it's right in there. that's how we ended up not listing it.. we didn't realise there was a fee at first.

not fair? it's a direct cost. wonky logic there man.

All right that's good then.

Normal consumers are not going to read a tariff on a CRTC decision... Only Internet specialists such as you do.

said by morisato:

You should all Just be greatful for a Existing FTTN Dsl Customer on a 15/1 profile to go to 25/10 its a full Install fee even though all It requires is a Speed Change, provided your hardware supports vdsl. You want a Needless Expensive Fee Thats alot more of a sizeable complaint $5 dollars Expense for you to save 7.. So in the first month you save 2 instead of 7? SO in essence your complaining about Only Saving 2 dollars in month 1 of the changed plan instead of 7 rofl.

Start doesn't charge it. Unless they were only talking about cable and not DSL. So that can potentially be $XX saved.
Yes it's a direct cost, but it doesn't help Teksavvy except that you guys get to save $5/person who switches Internet packages. Start's activation fee, I can understand why they would eat the cost. It's to bring in more customers. But that $5 fee, well it's a simple fee that no one charges but Teksavvy. Take a look at electronic stores that say there is a restocking fee for return items. Electronic stores usually choose not to charge charge that restocking fee because they don't want to make the customer unhappy, thus losing future business. They'd rather give them a full refund, and then sell that return item at a lesser profit margin. And if what I'm told is correct, profit margins on electronics can be very slim.

Start doesn't charge the $5 to change tiers for existing customers... to bring in new customers? Your comparisons are flawed. I'm all for the critique, but when Marc straight up says this is a fee that they don't get a dime from, and seeing as it's listed in the new tariff, I don't see what the consumer-provider beef is. The fact that you've since relegated your argument to "Well, Start doesn't charge the fee." just shows that you're really grasping at straws here. Does Start offer true unlimited usage? No? Well, better try start a shitstorm over there because if TSI offers it that's just unfair to existing Start customers.

camelot

join:2008-04-12
Whitby, ON
reply to geokilla

Are we really making an issue over $5?

You'll probably spend more on lunch today.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

You should all Just be greatful for a Existing FTTN Dsl Customer on a 15/1 profile to go to 25/10 its a full Install fee even though all It requires is a Speed Change, provided your hardware supports vdsl. You want a Needless Expensive Fee Thats alot more of a sizeable complaint $5 dollars Expense for you to save 7.. So in the first month you save 2 instead of 7? SO in essence your complaining about Only Saving 2 dollars in month 1 of the changed plan instead of 7 rofl.

 
Yes, you're quite right that there ARE some other (and much LARGER) stupid unjustified fees (albeit that they are ALSO direct pass-thrus from Bell or whichever incumbent) which are infinitely more deserving of a thread like this.

So you spend $5 ONCE to save $7 plus HST (That's $7.91 for Ontario folks) on each and every month afterwards ?

Methinks some folks complain for the sake of complaining.

Though I DO agree with the one point (which Marc already did too) that the fee should be listed in plain wiew on the TSI site wherever the other fees (such as setup) are shown.

And I reckon that it WILL be, once TSI takes all of this new stuff LIVE.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

Start doesn't charge it. Unless they were only talking about cable and not DSL. So that can potentially be $XX saved.
Yes it's a direct cost, but it doesn't help Teksavvy except that you guys get to save $5/person who switches Internet packages.

Start's activation fee, I can understand why they would eat the cost....

 
Yes, START apparently DOES eat that fee, (and some others - for example they plan to eat the modem rental fee for VDSL, and charge a smaller one of their own IF you end up renting one from them - it looks like BUYING a VDSL modem will be possible soon, if only you buy the CORRECT APPROVED model(s), just like for Cable).

But as another user posted last night, some of the OTHER things about START's packages are not as desirable, such as them offering next to no unlimited plans (only on the slow speed at present), which fortunately is not an issue for me.

NBomb

join:2007-01-23
Etobicoke, ON
reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

Only reason I made this thread is to get this out to the public. It was always hidden in other threads and isn't on your site. Yes it's a small fee, but when no one else is charging it, it's a bummer to us imo. As for those that are saying we can choose not to switch packages, well that's dumb because no one in their right mind is going to continue to pay $47 for 28/1 when 25/2 is $7 cheaper.

You're saying it's a price gouge that you pay $5 to save $7? And not just saving that once, but every month? That seems hardly something to complain about.


cognizantt

join:2009-06-13
Montreal, QC
reply to neuromancer1

oi
they're nickle and diming me back into my pocket once i switch to their voip hehe



dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to fatness

said by fatness:

If people could keep the insults down that would be good. Otherwise mods have to start deleting stuff, which we'd rather not do.

I'll give you a $5 hidden fee if you delete something.

Wait.... what?



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

said by dillyhammer:

I'll give you a $5 hidden fee if you delete something.

Wait.... what?



Mike

Wiseguy !

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Jayar

said by Jayar:

said by geokilla:

said by TSI Marc:

we'll add it to the web site.. that's purely an error that it's not listed.

...read the tariff, it's right in there. that's how we ended up not listing it.. we didn't realise there was a fee at first.

not fair? it's a direct cost. wonky logic there man.

All right that's good then.

Normal consumers are not going to read a tariff on a CRTC decision... Only Internet specialists such as you do.

said by morisato:

You should all Just be greatful for a Existing FTTN Dsl Customer on a 15/1 profile to go to 25/10 its a full Install fee even though all It requires is a Speed Change, provided your hardware supports vdsl. You want a Needless Expensive Fee Thats alot more of a sizeable complaint $5 dollars Expense for you to save 7.. So in the first month you save 2 instead of 7? SO in essence your complaining about Only Saving 2 dollars in month 1 of the changed plan instead of 7 rofl.

Start doesn't charge it. Unless they were only talking about cable and not DSL. So that can potentially be $XX saved.
Yes it's a direct cost, but it doesn't help Teksavvy except that you guys get to save $5/person who switches Internet packages. Start's activation fee, I can understand why they would eat the cost. It's to bring in more customers. But that $5 fee, well it's a simple fee that no one charges but Teksavvy. Take a look at electronic stores that say there is a restocking fee for return items. Electronic stores usually choose not to charge charge that restocking fee because they don't want to make the customer unhappy, thus losing future business. They'd rather give them a full refund, and then sell that return item at a lesser profit margin. And if what I'm told is correct, profit margins on electronics can be very slim.

Start doesn't charge the $5 to change tiers for existing customers... to bring in new customers? Your comparisons are flawed. I'm all for the critique, but when Marc straight up says this is a fee that they don't get a dime from, and seeing as it's listed in the new tariff, I don't see what the consumer-provider beef is. The fact that you've since relegated your argument to "Well, Start doesn't charge the fee." just shows that you're really grasping at straws here. Does Start offer true unlimited usage? No? Well, better try start a shitstorm over there because if TSI offers it that's just unfair to existing Start customers.

I said Start doesn't charge activation fee. Read it again. There's $0 activation fee with them if you have existing cable service. Obviously that is a way for them to bring in new customers.

As for the $5 fee deterring customers from constantly switching packages, how many people actually switch their Internet packages every month? Unless you got a troll subscriber who likes to waste time and money, I'd say virtually 0.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

said by geokilla:

I said Start doesn't charge [an] activation fee....

....There's $0 activation fee with them, IF you have existing cable service.

Obviously that is a way for them to bring in new customers....

 
And they got ME that way last Spring, directly from GOUGEco retail.

It's been good so far.


lleader

join:2011-01-01
Mississauga, ON
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

I dunno man. kind of a bummer for me to read this thread. with everything else going on.. just seems like.. really?


Illegitimi non carborundum.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

hehe tx


Eug

join:2007-04-14
Canada
reply to geokilla

More than fair $5 Cost for Rogers Speed Change.

I think even $10 or $15 would be fair, to be honest. If the mandated charge is $5 for Rogers, then TSI is essentially doing this for free at $5.

It's good that others are doing this for free though. Competition is good, to keep TSI's fee down at $5, which to me is pretty much inconsequential. Seriously, how many times a year would you plan on changing the speed? Even if twice a year, that still works out to less than $1 per month.

If you really want to change your speed 10X per year, there are other options, but I would guess some of those options would get pretty irritated with you as a customer after a while.

--
Everything Apple



Jayar

join:2005-01-16
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to geokilla

Re: [Cable] Unfair $5 Cost for Rogers Speed Change.

said by geokilla:

I said Start doesn't charge activation fee. Read it again. There's $0 activation fee with them if you have existing cable service. Obviously that is a way for them to bring in new customers.

As for the $5 fee deterring customers from constantly switching packages, how many people actually switch their Internet packages every month? Unless you got a troll subscriber who likes to waste time and money, I'd say virtually 0.

The point still stands: TSI doesn't need to be homogeneous to other ISPs in business practices to acquire and keep customers. They have unlimited; Start does not. If you feel so slighted by them, as you said: Start doesn't charge an activation fee if you already have cable with someone else.


Mountie

@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
reply to Eug

Re: More than fair $5 Cost for Rogers Speed Change.

Really? Its $5. I spend more on a coffee sometimes. I even used to spend the same on a Foot long sub as Subway.
This about this. Minimum wage is $10.25 in Ontario.
You have to call in to make the change. Someone will answer the phone and have to make that change for you. Do you think that person works for free? Who do you think pays them to make the switch for you?
Do you also think they sit in there own home with the lights off and no internet connection?
Who pays the building fees?
Who pays the Phone bill?
Who pays the Internet?
I could go on and on about this but I will end here.
Suck it up. Pay the $5 and move on.
Or don't pay the $5 and keep your current package. I for one will gladly pay the low price of $5.


koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to neuromancer1

Re: [Cable] Unfair $5 Cost for Rogers Speed Change.

said by neuromancer1:

You're calling me immature yet, you're insult me because I disagree with you. " Pot meet, kettle." $5 for an upgrade that we didn't ask for is a hidden fee. You must have your own definitions for everything. The it's Rogers fault blame game is old news, we pay TSI for service, not Rogers, it's not are problem.

They aren't forcing you to upgrade... so I don't see the issue.. If you want to upgrade, there is a charge.. but you don't have to... and you will stay at the speeds you got.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to geokilla

Yup, like the DOCIS 3 modem thread, neither this nor a DOCSIS 2 modem are forced or required. Your current service will keep working just fine without them.This is kvetching for the sake of kvetching.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

said by Guspaz:

....This is kvetching for the sake of kvetching.



100%


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to neuromancer1

said by neuromancer1:

You're calling me immature yet, you're insult me because I disagree with you. " Pot meet, kettle." $5 for an upgrade that we didn't ask for is a hidden fee. You must have your own definitions for everything. The it's Rogers fault blame game is old news, we pay TSI for service, not Rogers, it's not are problem.

I see that others have already responded your rather angry response but maybe a repeated clarification will get to you finally.

There is no forced upgrade from legacy TPIA Cable internet packages to the new ATPIA packages once the migration completes. TSI will grandfather you on the plan and you can keep paying the same rate you have before. You have to ask for the upgraqde and there for its your choice to incur the $5 fee. Nothing is hidden about it.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

said by TypeS:

said by neuromancer1:

You're calling me immature yet, you're insult me because I disagree with you. " Pot meet, kettle." $5 for an upgrade that we didn't ask for is a hidden fee. You must have your own definitions for everything. The it's Rogers fault blame game is old news, we pay TSI for service, not Rogers, it's not are problem.

I see that others have already responded your rather angry response but maybe a repeated clarification will get to you finally.

There is no forced upgrade from legacy TPIA Cable internet packages to the new ATPIA packages once the migration completes. TSI will grandfather you on the plan and you can keep paying the same rate you have before. You have to ask for the upgraqde and there for its your choice to incur the $5 fee. Nothing is hidden about it.

And how much would it cost Teksavvy to eat that $5? Not a lot, unless as I said, you got people switching packages every month just to troll Teksavvy. Having said that, I will pay that $5 if I have to.

I thought competition was supposed to bring about lower prices and better packages. And please read my restocking fee analogy.

bbhog

join:2010-07-05
North York, ON

I'm wondering why you haven't left to Start?
Their 25/2 package is the same price as TSI's and you can move there today, at NO COST.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

And how much would it cost Teksavvy to eat that $5? Not a lot, unless as I said, you got people switching packages every month just to troll Teksavvy. Having said that, I will pay that $5 if I have to.

I thought competition was supposed to bring about lower prices and better packages. And please read my restocking fee analogy.

As Marc has already said, the $5 is direct cost from Rogers, so it costs the whole $5 you pay. I'm not sure where you came up with this "doesn't cost them a whole lot" bit.

And again why does TSI have to race to the bottom to match everyone? You said it yourself, this is about competition, not everyone being the same as everyone else. As well, competition does not guarantee lower prices, there's always the value you get what you're paying for. If the dollar amount is all you care about, I'm sure Acanac with their rate limiting should look appealing then.

Sure, Start will eat the install fees from Rogers for switching from pre-existing cable services (honestly that sounds a little fishy though, why don't eat the install fee for anyone signing up?). But they don't offer true unlimited service, have lower caps on many tiers than TSI and at the moment have no caps on overage charges. So if you're going to start comparing TSI and Start, don't nit pick about it, give the whole picture.

Also I don't see why you're bringing up re-stocking charges, I worked a successful computer store and dealt with Canada Computers on a daily basis, neither would budge on re-stocking fee hardly ever if nothing was wrong with the return, if it happened it happened rarely and I have first hand knowledge of that. It costs money to sell an open box item, because the next customer will demand a discount. The store shouldn't have to pay for a customers mistakes in buying a item that didn't work out for them. There's Best Buy for that with their huge profit margins on everything but big ticket items like TVs, consoles & computers.


SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Eug

Re: More than fair $5 Cost for Rogers Speed Change.

said by Eug:

I think even $10 or $15 would be fair, to be honest. If the mandated charge is $5 for Rogers, then TSI is essentially doing this for free at $5.

It's good that others are doing this for free though. Competition is good, to keep TSI's fee down at $5, which to me is pretty much inconsequential. Seriously, how many times a year would you plan on changing the speed? Even if twice a year, that still works out to less than $1 per month.

If you really want to change your speed 10X per year, there are other options, but I would guess some of those options would get pretty irritated with you as a customer after a while.

+1.

Without TekSavvy Canadian Internet access would be in a hell of state.

As my wife says, paying TekSavvy for Internet access is as much about getting access to the Internet as it is about paying someone to make sure we -can- get access to the Internet.

Rogers, I'm quite sure, would be happy to sell us a "lite" version of the Internet, sans streaming video, P2P and VoIP. Companies like TekSavvy have helped keep that commercially unviable.

If TekSavvy wants to earn a profit on the change fee I'm happy to pay it should I choose to change tiers. Passing the $5 cost on means they're spending time and effort for no reward... and -that- would actually be "unfair".

Consider the alternatives.


Taylortbb
Premium
join:2007-02-18
Kitchener, ON
reply to geokilla

Re: [Cable] Unfair $5 Cost for Rogers Speed Change.

said by geokilla:

And how much would it cost Teksavvy to eat that $5? Not a lot, unless as I said, you got people switching packages every month just to troll Teksavvy. Having said that, I will pay that $5 if I have to.

I thought competition was supposed to bring about lower prices and better packages. And please read my restocking fee analogy.

It would cost a lot. TekSavvy has over 100,000 cable subscribers, and pretty much everyone will want a free upgrade (going from 28/1 to 25/2 saves a decent amount of money). That's over half a million dollars in service changes fees to Rogers. So, if you're Marc, is that the best use of $500,000? Might it be better spent on network upgrades? Lower monthly prices? Rolling out new services? ATPIA migration costs? Profit? It's only fair Marc makes some money with all the hours he works.

Marc has clearly looked at it, and the handful of customers they'll lose over a $5 change fee aren't worth $500,000+.

Competition is also about ISPs offering differentiated service. This entire battle was fought so that TekSavvy and other independents had the freedom to set their own pricing and packages. Start offers lower change fees, but they don't offer unlimited. There's also differences in customer service and so on. If TekSavvy doesn't meet your needs then switch, competition isn't about every provider offering the exact same thing. Another provider may better serve your needs.
--
Taylor Byrnes

NBomb

join:2007-01-23
Etobicoke, ON
reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

And how much would it cost Teksavvy to eat that $5? Not a lot, unless as I said, you got people switching packages every month just to troll Teksavvy. Having said that, I will pay that $5 if I have to.

I thought competition was supposed to bring about lower prices and better packages. And please read my restocking fee analogy.

How much would it cost them? $5 per person per switch. How much would it cost you to swallow it? Or how about they raise the monthly rate by $2 and give you the switch for free?

Would you be happier to pay less up front and get jammed long term? I have a 3 year cell phone contract for you to sign.


some1tek

@teksavvy.com
reply to geokilla

I don't think $5 is big deal at all. I will gladly pay this one time fee if I was on 28/1 to save some cash every month or even 18/0.5 if I want higher speeds. I think it's very reasonable price, especially as it's direct cost to Teksavvy from what I read and it's won't be fair for them to swallow the cost instead of using it to pay back the fee to Rogers.

Plus, the fee is optional, no one forces anyone to pay it if you don't want to save on monthly bills or for faster speeds.


geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TypeS

said by TypeS:

Sure, Start will eat the install fees from Rogers for switching from pre-existing cable services (honestly that sounds a little fishy though, why don't eat the install fee for anyone signing up?). But they don't offer true unlimited service, have lower caps on many tiers than TSI and at the moment have no caps on overage charges. So if you're going to start comparing TSI and Start, don't nit pick about it, give the whole picture.

Well for one, they probably don't need Rogers to send a technician over. Teksavvy never sent one over when I switched from Rogers even though there was someone coming. In the end, I don't remember what happened but I got Teksavvy Internet up and running. Plus, promotion to bring in more customers.

Ok let's shift the discussion a bit then. Can't the CRTC decision be appealed to get rid of this $5 fee, and other bogus charges that Robellus are charging the IISPs? I mean, how can MTS cost like $300/100mbps while Cogeco charge... $3000? Or whatever the amounts were. Clearly, something wrong happened. Same for $5 fee about switching packages. Retail customers don't have to pay that, but I'm sure Rogers would love to charge it to their own customers if they can. It's more money in their pockets, and they have to pay for the CSRs that answer the calls.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to geokilla

How is it a bogus change? Say the person on the other end of the phone gets paid $25 an hour, plus benefits which make it an effective (say) $35 an hour, plus overhead (employee needs a computer to use, etc). So let's say the total cost for the company to employ this person is $50 an hour.

Now, they're asked to change a sync rate. $5 gives him 6 minutes to get the request, find the right line in the system, validate the line can support the speed (still applies even to cable, need the right modem, the right area, right line stats, etc), bump it up and potentially validate that the modem has successfully reconnected at the higher speed.

$5 seems perfectly reasonable to me. Expecting them to do work for free is unreasonable. Rogers is a business.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Guspaz:

$5 seems perfectly reasonable to me. Expecting them to do work for free is unreasonable. Rogers is a business.

This.

The fact that TekSavvy is passing on the $5 charge without adding anything for their time and effort in the process is what's 'unfair' about this.

It's $5. Starbucks charges that a LATTÉ. Not a lot to pay to involve a TekSavvy rep, a Rogers rep, and the technical skill from both to the do the job properly.


pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to geokilla

All this over a $5 charge passed on from Rogers, really?

Would you rather pay an extra $1/month every month so that they can suck stuff like this up? I wouldn't.

You're in the Start thread talking about this same thing, but their plans are not as good. Lower caps and the same or higher prices. I'll take a $5 one-time fee over $5 more every month on 45/4, or 100GB less cap on the 35/3 plan for the same monthly price, or half the cap on the 25/2 plan for the same price.