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El Quintron
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reply to EUS

Re: Is It Time To Enforce a Gamers' Bill of Rights?

said by EUS:

Doing it this way I've felt I felt that I've made a bad purchase only one time since ~'98.
To each their own.

I think that's pretty good of you, and demonstrates a good deal of self-restraint.

But I don't think it encourages companies to change what I consider to be a less than idea situation.

If I were to compare it to my life, I got rid of cable (and all paytv) years ago. I generally think it isn't worth the money, and they won't get my disposable income as a result.

However, last I checked paytv still sucked, so if I were boycotting, rather than just not caring I'd be a little disappointed.
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Jay_
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1 recommendation

reply to Savious Zero
I know easily 2 dozen people who played Diablo and D2 almost daily for years. From release to THIS DAY. They played D3 and quit almost as fast as I did.

The game left a sour taste in hardcore Diablo fans and those new to the series both. Stop deluding yourself into believing the only reason people hate D3 is because they hate "Diablo" games...

Diablo 3 had good game mechanics but that's it. Huge waste of money..
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Savious Zero
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reply to El Quintron
I didn't say it worked, but it's better than CD keys.


El Quintron
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said by Savious Zero:

I didn't say it worked, but it's better than CD keys.

How so?
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Savious Zero
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reply to Jay_
I know. I still play D2 occasionally. I played D3 a lot but the lack of meph runs, Baal runs, various character builds and reasons to reroll is why I stopped.

Regardless, Diablo 3 was still a descent game, not the epitome of a bad game.
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Savious Zero
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reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

said by Savious Zero:

I didn't say it worked, but it's better than CD keys.

How so?

Are you trolling, or seriously asking how always online requirements are better than a CD key?
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El Quintron
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said by Savious Zero:

Are you trolling, or seriously asking how always online requirements are better than a CD key?

I'm not trolling you at all, do you need clarification as to what the question was?
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Savious Zero
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said by El Quintron:

said by Savious Zero:

Are you trolling, or seriously asking how always online requirements are better than a CD key?

I'm not trolling you at all, do you need clarification as to what the question was?

I think I do, honestly.
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puppy

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reply to El Quintron
CD keys are useless since they can be copied easily. This is why all the companies want to move to online only, since that's the only way they can control one copy in use at a time (especially if they add IP checking).


Savious Zero
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Also, CD key generators.


El Quintron
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reply to Savious Zero
said by Savious Zero:

I think I do, honestly.

Fair enough; assuming DRM gets more and more hardcore, (eg online requirements for single player games/modes) why am I punished for buying this crap?

What's the motivator to stay legit, or even buy it at all? That's what I was asking you, I wasn't saying that "always online" was less effective than CD key, I was saying "what's in it for me?"
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El Quintron
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reply to puppy
said by puppy:

CD keys are useless since they can be copied easily. This is why all the companies want to move to online only, since that's the only way they can control one copy in use at a time (especially if they add IP checking).

I'm aware of the logic behind it, I was just trying to get some beneficial justifications for draconian DRM.
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Savious Zero
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said by El Quintron:

said by puppy:

CD keys are useless since they can be copied easily. This is why all the companies want to move to online only, since that's the only way they can control one copy in use at a time (especially if they add IP checking).

I'm aware of the logic behind it, I was just trying to get some beneficial justifications for draconian DRM.

Draconian? That's a little far. It is frustrating if you don't have reliable internet access, but what are game companies supposed to do?

Continue to lose revenue or increase security measures. Either way they take a loss, but they looked at numbers, and the numbers spoke.

Our anger should be focused on the people that ruined it for the rest of us, not for companies protecting their products.

I equate it the annoying plastic around things you buy, the stuff you need a chainsaw to get through. Think that companies found it more profitable to spend money on that compares to the losses they were taking on theft.
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me1212

join:2008-11-20
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Yes its draconinan, once the companies take the servers offline for that game it will never again be playable. I hate piracy as much as most people here, but it doesn't happen at near the level the game companies would like you to believe, and they are still making loads of money. There is protecting your product, then there is treating your paying customers like shit/a criminal in the waiting which is what companies(EA) are doing with always online drm.


Savious Zero
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They could easily patch it and make it offline playable if the servers are going to be shut down.
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me1212

join:2008-11-20
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IF the company cares enough to do so, and even so thats no excuse for always online drm.


Savious Zero
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You look so dashing in your tin foil hat.

me1212

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1 edit
never mind, this is getting off topic.


Savious Zero
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Not really. Has anyone suggested a viable alternative to DRM?


El Quintron
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reply to Savious Zero
said by Savious Zero:

Continue to lose revenue or increase security measures. Either way they take a loss, but they looked at numbers, and the numbers spoke.

I'm not sold on that assertion at all, Steam, GOG, Humble Bundle, Indie Royale, Desura all seem to be doing fine with little to no DRM.

said by Savious Zero:

Our anger should be focused on the people that ruined it for the rest of us, not for companies protecting their products.

A business model that relies on digital locks rather than innovation isn't something worth protecting. Do you know why I buy from Steam instead of pirating? Because Steam provides a better experience than piracy overall. In a nutshell they've chosen to compete rather than fuck me over.

I'd like to see EA and Ubi (amongst others) do the same.
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Savious Zero
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Steam is DRM with a different presentation.


Savious Zero
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Besides, comparing Call of Duty or Diablo to the humble bundle is embarrasing.

IamGimli

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reply to Cthen
said by Cthen:

That argument will fall on deaf ears around here. Making bad excuses is the king of why they should continue to give these companies money letting them know they are just fine with what these companies are doing.

I know. What's really hilarious is all these sheep calling for the doom of the industry if software distributors were made to be forced to give refunds on software yet they all seem to have missed the post from the European guy who clearly said that's exactly the case in Europe yet the industry seems to be doing just fine over there. Most of the really good smaller studios that have produced awesome games over the last decade have come out of Europe as a matter of fact.

I just don't know whether it's more hilarious or sad.


Savious Zero
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Be more specific in your post. Do you have any numbers?


El Quintron
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said by Savious Zero:

Steam is DRM with a different presentation.

I did say acceptable level of DRM...

said by Savious Zero:

Besides, comparing Call of Duty or Diablo to the humble bundle is embarrasing.

Would you care to elaborate?
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Snakeoil
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reply to Savious Zero
said by Savious Zero:

Not really. Has anyone suggested a viable alternative to DRM?

The only alternative to DRM that I can think of is a web based/portal based game.
For example:
Farmville, requires an internet connection to play. Has no DRM [that I am aware of].

Warface: Uses the gface portal, and runs outside of a browser full screen. As far as I can tell there is no DRM, but then again, I'n not sure as to how much of Warface is being downloaded to your PC at any given time. Meaning I don't think you get the entire game on your system, just the map you are currently playing.

I've played both, and never stumbled upon DRM. Mainly because you are only downloading "chunks" of the game at any given time, if you download anything at all.
Maybe more games are headed in that direction, which I don't see as a problem. As long as they are free to play.
But if I have to pay for the game, then IMO, there should be an offline option for single player play.
For example Shroud of the Avatar. It's a single player game offline, but you can jump online and meet up with friends and go on adventures together. It's pay to own the game, free to play after that. [still in kickstarter phase].
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Savious Zero
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reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

said by Savious Zero:

Steam is DRM with a different presentation.

I did say acceptable level of DRM...

said by Savious Zero:

Besides, comparing Call of Duty or Diablo to the humble bundle is embarrasing.

Would you care to elaborate?

Production cost, player population, popularity, etc....
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El Quintron
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said by Savious Zero:

said by El Quintron:

said by Savious Zero:

Steam is DRM with a different presentation.

I did say acceptable level of DRM...

said by Savious Zero:

Besides, comparing Call of Duty or Diablo to the humble bundle is embarrasing.

Would you care to elaborate?

Production cost, player population, popularity, etc....

»blog.humblebundle.com/post/36817···-arrived

Is all triple A titles, there are lots of other games in the Humble Bundles who may not cost as much as an EA or other large studio game, but the production values are just as high.
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EUS
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reply to Savious Zero
said by Savious Zero:

Not really. Has anyone suggested a viable alternative to DRM?

No DRM?
But seriously, since DRM has been present since entering cd keys, it is not going anywhere. Out of all newer DRM systems, my personal fav is Stardock's goo.
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El Quintron
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said by EUS:

Stardock's goo.

I bought Sins, but I'm really not familiar with their DRM as I haven't played it yet, and I bought it on Steam.

Would you mind getting into some details for the sake of the thread?
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