 ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | reply to Snuffbox
Re: Today's MMO Champion RSS Feed said by Snuffbox:How would you propose Blizzard balances factions? split the servers themselves into "horde" and "alliance" servers and use virtual realming to ensure faction balance.
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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| that is probably the most brilliant thing you have ever typed. |
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 Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:2 | reply to Snuffbox
They had stated they would take it into account when merging servers. So instead of merging two 40/60 ratio'd servers, you could go with a 40/60 and 60/40. There are so many damn servers, lots of options.
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Absolution -- 6/6 MSV, 4/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 12/12 ToT
Pride and Ego -- 6/6 MSV 1/6H, 6/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 11/12 ToT |
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ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | reply to Skittles
said by Skittles:that is probably the most brilliant thing you have ever typed. ... my work here is done. I should take the rest of the day off.
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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 Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Immer
said by Immer:split the servers themselves into "horde" and "alliance" servers and use virtual realming to ensure faction balance. So I was on your server, but got autobalanced and now I'm on a different server without any of my friends?
This also assumes there's a 50/50 overall ratio.
I believe it's actually 40/60 making it impossible. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Carpie
said by Carpie:instead of merging two 40/60 ratio'd servers, you could go with a 40/60 and 60/40. And they will.
They won't exaggerate what's already a landslide therefore extrapolating the issue.
But in your population comparisons above it was .422 and .492 and realistically I believe you won't get much closer than that. |
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ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:So I was on your server, but got autobalanced and now I'm on a different server without any of my friends? alliance and horde are not friends. this argument does not compute. Besides... BattleTag/RealID would remain intact.
said by Snuffbox:This also assumes there's a 50/50 overall ratio. No, it doesn't. I did not say limit virtual realming to a 1-to-1 server linkage. It would be dynamic much like CRZ (lol... sorry... couldn't resist).
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | It would also make realm firsts feel like more of a race. don't have to worry about what horde is doing on my server... I just need to keep tabs on the alliance guilds.
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Immer
Immer,
Lets say I'm Horde on Tich. Horde currently dominates Tich like 70/30.
Your suggestion is to have a Horde server and an Alliance server.
Now, my Horde server is too high of a population, so Blizzard removes me from the Tich Horde server, and puts me on Sargeras Horde server because they're Alliance heavy and I'm no longer with my friends/guilds. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Immer
said by Immer:No, it doesn't. I did not say limit virtual realming to a 1-to-1 server linkage. It would be dynamic much like CRZ (lol... sorry... couldn't resist). I do not follow. If the over all ratio is 40/60 I don't see how you can balance server ratios.
You could have some servers be 50/50, and then a few remaining servers get screwed with a 20/80? |
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ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:Now, my Horde server is too high of a population, so Blizzard removes me from the Tich Horde server, and puts me on Sargeras Horde server because they're Alliance heavy and I'm no longer with my friends/guilds. wasn't even in my discussion. Why are we talking about kicking horde off of a horde server?
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Snuffbox
Otherwise you're suggesting a situation where 30 horde zone into an area that only has 5 Alliance currently (Arena Vendors), so suddenly Blizzard has 25 Alliance players from other servers randomly spawn into the area to compensate?
So one second you're hunting a rare spawn on your server that you know is going to respawn within 15 minutes and then $(#&# you're waste deep in a world PvP fight because Blizzard auto balanced you using CRZ. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Immer
said by Immer:wasn't even in my discussion. Why are we talking about kicking horde off of a horde server? Because apparently I lack the intellect to follow your suggestion. Please explain in layman's terms for me how you feel it is possible to balance without splitting up friends/guilds on top of an overall uneven horde to alliance ratio. |
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 JBStay Gold
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1 | reply to Immer
I picked the server I'm on because of the high horde to alliance population #s, if they change that, then... sigh. |
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 DarkLogixTexan and ProudPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | reply to Snuffbox
How about this rename the horde to "Dances with cows" and see people become ally.
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semper idem
1KTzRMxN1a2ATrtAAvbmEnMBoY3E2kHtyv |
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ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:Because apparently I lack the intellect to follow your suggestion. and the patience to flesh out the suggestion before attacking it.
The hardest part of my suggestion is to handle splitting the servers. There could be a couple of approaches that might minimize heartburn for some... and the rest will just have to gripe because it makes them feel like better/smarter people.
One way (off the top of my head) might be something like this: Since most servers are already named after horde or alliance names... just split those out "horde" and "alliance" only. The rest would simply be aligned by current population split. The background downloader could start modifying how the client saves interface data (by account and then server... start adjusting the server designation before the server split happens, so that you don't loose all macros/UI elements/etc). Now when you go to create a character, your selection for horde/alliance will be based on the server you choose to play on.
We'll take your 60/40 overall split problem for now. In the new server/faction regime, only PVP server balance really matters. PvE server balance only matters in pvp zones or where competing for the same world bosses might become an issue. So, aside from those 2 elements, no one cares if the virtual realming on PvE servers causes a 30-40% shift from time to time, unless the spawn timer on world bosses is off. So, prioritize PvP servers in virtual reamling faction balance to within 10% where possible. Continue using virtual realming to boost same-faction numbers for questing, raiding, partying, and AH economy. If "high pop" servers have a hard cap... offer discounted server transfers. Faction change now involves server change, so adjust that price, too.
that's just what I was thinking with my suggestion. feel free to excoriate it now.
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | said by Immer:and the patience to flesh out the suggestion before attacking it. I do not believe patience to be the issue.
said by Immer:The hardest part of my suggestion is to handle splitting the servers. There could be a couple of approaches that might minimize heartburn for some... and the rest will just have to gripe because it makes them feel like better/smarter people. This is entirely my point. You can't do the above, without many people's relationships/guilds being split. I understand they're still Alliance, but now they're on a different Alliance server.
I would choose a 1 to 10 ratio server before I would play a 50/50 server without any of my IRL friends.
I do not know why you're acting attacked. |
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DarkLogixTexan and ProudPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | How about add in Server first Ally and server first horde achevs and world first ally and world first horde.
then while you're competing with everyone on the server for first atleast if you're first ally you still get a feat for it.
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semper idem
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Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:2 | reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:But in your population comparisons above it was .422 and .492 and realistically I believe you won't get much closer than that. The two realms are an example of NOT faction balancing. Each server has twice as many Horde than Alliance. For balancing purposes, you'd want to combine one of them with a pvp server that had twice as many Alliance than Horde (not that many exist). So in the end you have roughly the same amount on either side.
And even using ratios and words like "twice" is over generalization because you have to take into account the total populations. If you have one server with 100,000 alliance, and 200,000 Horde (twice as much) and combine it with another server that has 2 alliance, and 1 Horde (twice is much), you still end up with a connected realm with twice as many Horde as Alliance.
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Absolution -- 6/6 MSV, 4/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 12/12 ToT
Pride and Ego -- 6/6 MSV 1/6H, 6/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 11/12 ToT |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 |
said by Carpie: While the ratios are close, though both Horde dominant, look at how the numbers will result. It will end up with 34k Alliance and 76k Horde. You're right, without headings I looked at the numbers wrong.
I compared Horde total, to Alliance+Horde (32,167 to 45,819) for example. |
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Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:2 | reply to Snuffbox
Snuff I think the misunderstanding here is that you are thinking you would be "split" from your friends and or guild with Immer's suggestion. You wouldn't be because of the connected realms.
Let's say you are server A and they are going to connect it to server B. You are Alliance dominant so they choose server A to be "the Alliance" server and move all of the Horde from A to B, and all the Alliance from B to A. Now it is true that you are on a different server, and so are all your friends (except Alliance that stayed). But because the two servers are "Connected" it still feels like it is all one realm. The AH is the same, guild would be the same (though his is moot now that the factions have been separated), trade channels would be the same, etc.
As long as the servers are "Connected", there isn't any noticeable split.
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Absolution -- 6/6 MSV, 4/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 12/12 ToT
Pride and Ego -- 6/6 MSV 1/6H, 6/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 11/12 ToT |
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Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:2 | reply to Immer
said by Immer:only PVP server balance really matters. Predominantly this is true. But there are still examples where you would want to be faction balanced. Or let me say... you would NOT want to be be faction imbalanced in a situation where your faction was very low pop. If you were a low pop PvE faction, you'd still want to be merged with a server that had a higher pop of your faction. This way the AH would be better, there would be more guilding/Pugging opportunities, etc.
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Absolution -- 6/6 MSV, 4/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 12/12 ToT
Pride and Ego -- 6/6 MSV 1/6H, 6/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 11/12 ToT |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Carpie
said by Carpie:Let's say you are server A and they are going to connect it to server B. You are Alliance dominant so they choose server A to be "the Alliance" server and move all of the Horde from A to B, and all the Alliance from B to A. Now it is true that you are on a different server, and so are all your friends (except Alliance that stayed). But because the two servers are "Connected" it still feels like it is all one realm. The AH is the same, guild would be the same (though his is moot now that the factions have been separated), trade channels would be the same, etc. ^^^ This doesn't fix ratios. It just eliminates the * at the end of your guild name compared to what is actually happening.
Connecting two servers, or pooling all of the alliance and all of the horde from two servers still gives the exact same horde to alliance ratio overall... |
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Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:2 | Fair point. Now I understand your side of the debate better.
If you were going to try and balance by creating faction specific servers, chances are you would be connected to a different server than your currently opposite factioned server brethren.
In this case, you WOULD be split from friends (as long as they were opposite factioned) but not guildies (who would be same factioned).
Both right. Case closed. Now where in the hell are the brats and mustard?
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Absolution -- 6/6 MSV, 4/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 12/12 ToT
Pride and Ego -- 6/6 MSV 1/6H, 6/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 11/12 ToT |
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ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:I do not know why you're acting attacked. the suggestion was attacked. I'm perfectly fine. I don't give 2 $hits about faction balance since it only matters to pvp. I was just offering up an idea that would work. I just didn't realize I was playing into one of your "the people choose the faction they play, so blizzard can't/shouldn't do anything about it" traps. /meh
virtual realms are already addressing low-pop economies.
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | said by Immer:I don't give 2 $hits Who is this? Because it's not Immer...
You and I have disagreed numerous times. I think we've known each other long enough to debate, or disagree with a suggestion that I don't see working and explaining why I don't see it working and asking for clarification in areas that I may have misunderstood. |
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DarkLogixTexan and ProudPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | said by Snuffbox:said by Immer:I don't give 2 $hits Who is this? Because it's not Immer... Pod person, he sometimes takes Immer's place.
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semper idem
1KTzRMxN1a2ATrtAAvbmEnMBoY3E2kHtyv |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | reply to Carpie
said by Carpie:Fair point. Now I understand your side of the debate better.
If you were going to try and balance by creating faction specific servers, chances are you would be connected to a different server than your currently opposite factioned server brethren.
In this case, you WOULD be split from friends (as long as they were opposite factioned) but not guildies (who would be same factioned).
Both right. Case closed. Now where in the hell are the brats and mustard?
Edit:
My argument was how to balance servers without splitting people up. Not whether or not merged servers would split players up.
Merging the two servers will not have any impact on friends/guilds.
But when you start trying to balance Alliance to Horde ratios - I do not see a way to do it without autobalancing thousands of people and moving them from friends/guildies.
So I was trying to understand Immer's suggestion and see how it improved ratios without jeopardizing relationships. |
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ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8 | reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:Because apparently I lack the intellect to follow your suggestion. this struck me as insincere and sarcastic. I got mad that I had allowed myself to get trolled. Just not in the mood. Faction imbalance (an the defense thereof) only serves the gankers on pvp servers.
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Intelligence is no substitute for Character. |
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Snuffboxnice irlPremium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4 | It wasn't.
Other people seemed to understand your suggestion - I am the only one not seeing how it works, so I criticized my own seemingly inability to understand.
I still don't see how it works. |
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