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geobrick

join:2008-06-01

1 edit

KNBC SD (Standard Definition) Squeezed Again (Anamorphic)

Verizon is doing it again.

KNBC, a local Los Angeles OTA channel is being squeezed again by Verizon in Ventura. This has been a problem on and off since verizon switched to all digital set top boxes. This latest problem started at least a month ago.

I know this is caused by Verizon because when get the signal on an OTA digital converter box, it's not being squeezed. So KNBC is broadcasting the signal properly.

Does anyone else notice the problem?

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: KNBC SD Squeezed Again (Anamorphic)

said by geobrick:

Verizon is doing it again.

KNBC, a local Los Angeles OTA channel is being squeezed again by Verizon in Ventura. This has been a problem on and off since verizon switched to all digital set top boxes. This latest problem started at least a month ago.

I know this is caused by Verizon because when get the signal on an OTA digital converter box, it's not being squeezed. So KNBC is broadcasting the signal properly.

Does anyone else notice the problem?

I am in Long Beach CA so I get the same feed as you do from the Pomona VHO. I just checked and both channel 004 (KNBC SD) and 504 (KNBC HD) have the correct aspect ration (not squeezed).

It may (underlined) be the way you have your TV and/or STB set up. For me:
- STB SD Override set to off
- STB TV set to 16x9
- STB resolution set to 1080i
- TV (a Panasonic Plasma) set to full

geobrick

join:2008-06-01
PJL, Thanks for the reply.

It seems you have an HD box and HD TV. The problem exists on their standard definition boxes (QIP2500 and DCT700). I've never used my HDTV to look at channel 4 (always use 504 for that) but see my note at the bottom because I just tried it.

The SD boxes can't access the HD channels and don't have the settings you describe. Same goes for an old SD TV.

Verizon is supposed to take the 'over the air' signal and either crop it or letter box it. They are squeezing it. See this thread if you want to see a picture. »Anamorphic SD locals

The issue has come up several times since Verizon switched to all digital. KNBC was good for almost a year but this latest issue started about 2 or three months ago.

Note from above: I checked this out on one of my HDTVs with an HD set top box. Take a look at your TV again. Note how channel 7 looks compared to channel 507 and then compare that to how channel 4 looks compared to channel 504. Verizon is doing it correctly for channel 7. Channel 7 is cropped at the SD border. Channel 4 is squeezed into the SD boarder. With an HDTV, you can stretch channel 4 to fill the screen and it would look fine (still SD but with the right aspect ratio). If you did the same on channel 7 it would look stretched (everyone wider than they're supposed to be). They are doing SD correctly on channel 7 but not on channel 4.

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by geobrick:

PJL, Thanks for the reply.

...
Note from above: I checked this out on one of my HDTVs with an HD set top box. Take a look at your TV again. Note how channel 7 looks compared to channel 507 and then compare that to how channel 4 looks compared to channel 504. Verizon is doing it correctly for channel 7. Channel 7 is cropped at the SD border. Channel 4 is squeezed into the SD boarder. With an HDTV, you can stretch channel 4 to fill the screen and it would look fine (still SD but with the right aspect ratio). If you did the same on channel 7 it would look stretched (everyone wider than they're supposed to be). They are doing SD correctly on channel 7 but not on channel 4.

I looked again at both 004 and 504, and then 007 and 507. Both SD channels were cropped (non-letterbox, SD size) images of their HD counterparts, and all aspect ratios were correct -- neither stretched nor squeezed on both KNBC4 and ABC7.

geobrick

join:2008-06-01
Interesting. Maybe it's only like this in Ventura or it's too subtle to notice. When things are squeezed into the SD size, everyone looks thinner so maybe it looks good to most people. It's easier to see if there's something round on the screen like a circular logo or a basketball. They'd look oblong instead of round. I'll see if I can post a picture where I catch something that's supposed to be round.

geobrick

join:2008-06-01

1 edit
Here are 2 pictures from tonight's NBC Nightly news. One picture from channel 504 (HD) and one from channel 4 (SD)

There was a commercial for baseball which was perfect because it shows something that's supposed to be perfectly round and shows how squeezing it makes it look distorted.

This is from channel 504. Viewed on an HD TV.


This is from channel 4. Viewed on an HD TV.


This is from channel 4. Viewed on an SD TV.


I can show some with people too but the ball makes it very clear what's going on when you look at channel 4 on an older SD TV with an SD set top box.


Andy from CA
Premium
join:2008-09-05
Anaheim, CA
reply to geobrick

Re: KNBC SD (Standard Definition) Squeezed Again (Anamorphic)

I'm down in Menifee and KNBC has been anamorphic for some time now. I just checked and it's still a squeeze play (to play off the baseball pics )

geobrick

join:2008-06-01
Andy,
You were one of the original posters on this subject. Why do so few of us care?

It's odd how things change on this over time. At one time the problem existed on several channels but channel 4 was good. Then the other channels were fixed and a few weeks later channel 4 went anamorphic (maybe some others as well). It's hard for me to say how long it's been like this (at least 3 months i think).


Onedollar

join:2001-08-27
Pomona, CA
kudos:6
reply to geobrick
I noticed this squeeze on sd channel 4 couple days ago while viewing live tv on my tablet. I have a cable card setup. This issue was detected in Ventura county

O1OOO1O

join:2005-12-23
Lewisville, TX
reply to geobrick
Have any of you guys contacted KNBC and asked them what the AFD value is in the copy of their signal they are sending to Verizon? Or asked Verizon this?

geobrick

join:2008-06-01
I haven't contacted KNBC but I posted something on the verizon direct forum. They've had it fixed in the past so I thought I'd try them again.

I don't know what the AFD value is set to by KNBC but it looks fine on my OTA digital converter box.

kes601

join:2007-04-14
Virginia Beach, VA
kudos:2
reply to geobrick

Re: KNBC SD Squeezed Again (Anamorphic)

Having same problem here on two locals. Left a message in the Direct Forum. Basiclly told me to contact the stations. So I did so but asked why a customer must do so as Vz would probably want the stations to display properly on their system. Received another response indicating "not our problem". One of the stations got back to me, first time indicating cox, dish, etc had no issues so must be a Vz issue. I thanked him for his time and told him I agreed but didnt figure Vz would fix if unless I did my due diligence. Anyway, got an email back from him that he had contacted Vz and indeed Vz acknowledged a problem and were working on it.

geobrick

join:2008-06-01
I agree. It has to be Verizon's fault because my over the air digital converter box displays the picture correctly.

geobrick

join:2008-06-01
If anyone is still having this problem, can you confirm here and maybe post something on the Verizon direct forum.

They've been going back and forth with me for about a week now and they are really trying to resolve it but they haven't yet. I'm starting to think that they think it's something I'm doing wrong or just my eyesight.

The problem is channel 4 (KNBC) in the LA area when viewed on an SD 4:3 screen using an SD box.

kes601

join:2007-04-14
Virginia Beach, VA
kudos:2
A big part of the problem is that the first level support guys seem to refuse that Vz could have a problem...that if it's displaying that way then that is what the network is sending.

I've heard back from both stations here that have a squeezed image and both indicate it isn't the first time they've had the problem on Vz, and are attempting to get it resolved, but have a difficult time finding people to fix the issue.


Andy from CA
Premium
join:2008-09-05
Anaheim, CA
reply to geobrick

Re: KNBC SD (Standard Definition) Squeezed Again (Anamorphic)

Just had a thought; If the 2500s can manipulate the picture to squeeze it down to a small square why can't they have a setting to letterbox or center cut an anamorphic channel? That way every 16:9 channel (HD simulcast) can be anamorphic and the viewer can decide for themselves how to watch it. I know 4.2 on my clear QAM is recognized as a 16:9 480i channel.

Either this or kill the SD simulcasts, pull the SD only boxes and make room for more HD QAM and HD VOD.

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to geobrick
I just checked again and I am now seeing the "squeezed" look on KNBC-SD FiOS channel 4 as displayed in the prior post. I have a 7232 STB. All other SD channels display correctly. This is the only channel that displays the 16x9 squeezed into the normal SD area on my 16x9 TV.

geobrick

join:2008-06-01
Exactly. Even when channel 4 is viewed using an HD box through an HD TV, it's still squeezed into a 4:3 size. But at least on an HD TV, you can change the display mode if you want.
Of course, I don't need channel 4 on an HDTV because I can watch channel 504 in real HD (or use the over the air antenna input).

webcobbler

join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ
kudos:2
reply to PJL
This may not be related, but the only Standard Def channel I have come across that truly fills the screen (just like a HD channel) , but is not as clear of course, is channel 317 WFN.

When watching this in SD, the channel does not have any black boarders around it, like all the rest of the SD channel I watch and know of. MY SD override is set to OFF, btw.

IDK if the channel provider chooses to broadcast this way, but to me, it just seems odd that it is the only one SD channel to do this.

If anyone has this channel in their subscription, check for yourself and get back to me. You will know what I am talking about.

this could be put in to a new thread, but...Also, just to put it out there: I wonder if when there is finally a Ultra HD channel available , will HD channels be shown like this WFN Standard Def channel is, full screen just blurrier than it's HD equivalent, with no black boarders around it. Or will there be black boarders around HD channels on a Ultra HD tv set? Just like SD is when watching on a HDTV.

I guess that is a question reserved for when these channels become mainstream.