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geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to rednekcowboy

Re: CIK Telecom - 150M*/10M - Unlimited

said by morisato:

said by geokilla:

said by morisato:

145/9.8 is great , My concern is other threads suggesting that this Fair usage policy is 2-300gigs. I would download more without a 150/10 connection let alone with..

Also I find there Techsupport Lines to be a Little strange Only offering 24/7 support in Cantonese or mandarin and other languages in short windows.

CIK caters to the Chinese market. Strange thing is, I've never seen them advertise on Fairchild or Ming Pao or any of the newspapers. But then I don't read Ming Pao lol.

said by elwoodblues:

That leaves them an out to throttle you. My habits wouldn't change, but I'd get stuff faster, so I'd probably push 4tb/month

So much porn?

Catering to the Chinese market is fine but they Operate in Canada, Which recognizes 2 languages as primary english and french and They Don't Provide Equal service,Discriminating against English Speaking folks, - i find this Disturbing.
Not to mention As a Company Alienating a market like that seems foolish.

Point? Discrimination is everywhere whether you like it or not

I used to work at a call centre for casino coach buses. Gamblers that didn't play a lot were discriminated because they weren't generating enough revenue for the bus company and for the casino. Customers complained to us and to the casino during the 1.5 years that I worked there. Nothing changed.

said by Satya:

CIK provides a standard 30 day warranty policy for all monthly subscription customers. For whatever reason, service can canceled

"canceled"..you gotta be kidding me..what a joke? There is a reason why noone has heard about them because they are probably like what distributel was long time ago when they started with 3web lol

you are telling me that with wholesale rates going up for rogers for 150/10 and with their unlimited being 170+ and teksavvy at 210..an ISP comes up with 99 a month lol :P

I think any ISP has the right to do that... You gotta show us the whole fine print in order to make a decision on whether they're a "joke" or not. My friend has been with them for a long time and he's never had their service cancelled without warning.

And regarding the rates, read my previous posts on why I think they can implement that. Along with Gone's explanation.

said by rednekcowboy:

said by Gone:

said by Satya:

define peak times..is it 4-12? 3-12? 12-12? 5-12? 6-2? further on how much would they limit you to? 35mbps ? 25mbps? because if the speeds are 150+ only after 12 am at night till upto 8-9 am then it is better to get teksavvy for 89.99 a month..get 150/10 all the time with 300GB and use the 2-8 am for heavy downloading..these days ftp clients , torrent clients..all have time management and auto queue startups.

Who knows. All I know is that North Americans are really the only people in the entire world who expect and demand peak performance out of their Internet connection at all hours of the day. It is because of people who whine and complain about 145Mbit/s instead of 150 at 7PM in the evening that networks need to overbuild and charge customers an arm and a leg for service.

If we were over in Europe, we would not be having this conversation. Let's just say that CIK has taken the European approach rather than the North American one.

Or here's a thought. Instead of selling a service you know you can't possibly provide, how about sell a 100 Mbps 24/7? I know, it makes too much sense to actually be implemented...That and then an ISP can't say "Oh look, we can provide 150 Mbps!!"

I would much rather pay for a set speed and get the speed that I'm paying for 24/7 than pay for a crippled package and only receive the speed I'm paying for half the time.....but that's me and this is why it's good there's competition.

Isn't it set so that if Rogers doesn't provide that tier, then IISPs can't provide it either? I don't know this Internet tariffs and stuff like you guys do so...

Besides, would you really notice the difference between 150mbps and 75mbps? What do you or your family need to do which requires downloading at 150mbps? Assuming download speed gets slashed in half during peak hours of course. I mean, the majority of us on IISPs have 28/1, soon to be 35/3 or 45/4. If you can live with 28/1 now, I'm pretty sure you can live with say 75mbps in the future...


FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to Gone

"Who knows. All I know is that North Americans are really the only people in the entire world who expect and demand peak performance out of their Internet connection at all hours of the day. It is because of people who whine and complain about 145Mbit/s instead of 150 at 7PM in the evening that networks need to overbuild and charge customers an arm and a leg for service.

If we were over in Europe, we would not be having this conversation. Let's just say that CIK has taken the European approach rather than the North American one."

North Americans expect cheap prices and decent if not excellent performance for the price and I don't really see anything wrong with that. North American internet (particularly Canadian) was found to be satisfactory in terms of delivered speeds but lacked in many other categories.

Europe is far superior in terms of Internet delivery and FTTH penetration. FTTH penetration alone in Sweden and Lithuania is the highest in Europe (refer to:

»www.ftthcouncil.org/d/do/4
»www.ftthcouncil.org/d/do/5

You can clearly see that Canada's penetration rate is an abysmal 1.45% and nearly next to Romania at the very bottom of the list. For a First world country to be nearly at the bottom with Romania is an utter emberassment.

The average costs and speeds for high FTTH penetration countries is very low compared to similar services and plans offered in Canada. Even when comparing Cable/VDSL Internet they are light years ahead and Canada is too late to the game playing catch up.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

1 edit
reply to darrylr

said by darrylr:

I hope you dont mean non stop usage. Do ya want to pay the isp cost for that 24/7 100Mb/sec service? It's a lot more than 39.95 a month.

With the current model it all comes down to peak usage so i suspect most isps will have to consider throttling more in prime time if services like 150Mb are sold to lots of customers.

No, what I'm saying is that if it's not feasible without throttling don't offer it and only offer what is feasible.

We have become such a greedy society that we are shooting ourselves in the foot. We want the biggest, the best, the fastest possible and are breaking the system to get it. This is both the consumer's greed and corporate greed.

Rather than sell what is needed (I have 30 Mbps right now and that's plenty fast and I have 3 consoles, 4 laptops, an htpc and some handheld devices) they are selling advertised speeds of 150 Mbps but have to cripple it so you're not really getting that 150, you may at different times throughout the day, but chances are when you really want that speed (peek time) is the exact time that you will be cut off at the knees.

As long as I have the option, I will always go for a lower speed that is constant before paying an arm and a leg for a crippled package. I mean if I'm only to get 75Mbps at peak, then I might as well pay for a package of that speed that is always that speed. That is just common sense to me.

IMHO, and I've said this many, many times on here, I don't believe ISP's should be allowed to sell a package and then throttle that package to "keep up with demand." If demand is that great then they obviously don't have the capabilities to provide that package and should not be allowed to sell it. What they should do instead is sell a lower speed package that is "always on" so to speak.


FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

"We have become such a greedy society that we are shooting ourselves in the foot. We want the biggest, the best, the fastest possible and are breaking the system to get it. This is both the consumer's greed and corporate greed."

The Consumers in Canada unfortunately while they may moan and complain about the pricing and the markups will unfortunately not take action or demand something be done except for a tiny minority as seen during the 2010 UBB Crisis.

The Corporate greed can be attributed due to the lack of competition between Incumbents and their oligopolistic policies due to Crony capitalism. Not to mention that Infastructure rollout is way behind schedule especially in Ontario compared to other provinces. Lack of any effective regulation or nationalization of Bell/Rogers/Shaw/Telus also prevents TPIA providers from effectively creating their own networks due to high capital and cost requirements. Essentially Canada is stagnating in terms of regulation for Bell/Rogers/Shaw/Telus.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to rednekcowboy

said by rednekcowboy:

I would much rather pay for a set speed and get the speed that I'm paying for 24/7 than pay for a crippled package and only receive the speed I'm paying for half the time.....but that's me and this is why it's good there's competition.

And herein lies the rub, because if you want a "set speed" that's guaranteed all the time, you should get an enterprise-grade connection with an SLA that guarantees that. Crying about occasional performance loss on a residential connection when it costs half of what you pay anywhere else is a little silly.

(though I'm not going to lie - I got miffed when my 30Mbit connection was dropping to 7Mbit at night due to node issues. I probably wouldn't if it dropped to 20 and cost half as much as what I pay now, though)


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to FiberToTheX

said by FiberToTheX:

Europe is far superior in terms of Internet delivery and FTTH penetration. FTTH penetration alone in Sweden and Lithuania is the highest in Europe

Irrelevant. A European may have a 200Mbit/s FTTH connection that they pay peanuts for, but they don't expect every site they visit to pull 200Mbit/s any time of day like a North American would. That's why they are able to sell things so cheap over there. A North American in the same circumstances would be threatening a lawsuit.

That, and North America deployed broadband a good 10-15 years before the Europeans did. We were using 10Mbit/s cable modems here when most of Europe was still on ISDN. They started later, when fibre was cheaper and easier to deploy. It takes time for an investment to provide a return, and as a result it's going to take time before we deploy faster networks here. When we do however many years from now it happens, those Europeans with super super fast FTTH networks today will look like ISDN did when we had our super fast cable modems ten years ago. The Europeans will then upgrade a few years later and the cycle will repeat itself.

Also, you really need to learn how to quote properly.


FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by Gone:

said by FiberToTheX:

Europe is far superior in terms of Internet delivery and FTTH penetration. FTTH penetration alone in Sweden and Lithuania is the highest in Europe

Irrelevant. A European may have a 200Mbit/s FTTH connection that they pay peanuts for, but they don't expect every site they visit to pull 200Mbit/s any time of day like a North American would. That's why they are able to sell things so cheap over there. A North American in the same circumstances would be threatening a lawsuit.

That, and North America deployed broadband a good 10-15 years before the Europeans did. We were using 10Mbit/s cable modems here when most of Europe was still on ISDN. They started later, when fibre was cheaper and easier to deploy. It takes time for an investment to provide a return, and as a result it's going to take time before we deploy faster networks here. When we do however many years from now it happens, those Europeans with super super fast FTTH networks today will look like ISDN did when we had our super fast cable modems ten years ago. The Europeans will then upgrade a few years later and the cycle will repeat itself.

Also, you really need to learn how to quote properly.

FTTH connections are 'future-proof' in the sense that there hasn't been found any limits to bandwidth on a GPON FTTH connection. Europe began it early and they now have on average if we look at Lithuania/Sweden as examples 100-300Mb symmetrical (download/upload).

Both Canada and the US for FTTH with a few exceptions don't have symmetrical FTTH whether it is BPON or GPON. Take for example Verizon Fios (Max 300/65) or Sasktel Infinet/Aliant Fibre Op which top 260/30 (60 for Infinet). Bell and Rogers offer symmetrical FTTH but they are Incumbents which began deploying at a later period of time.

I don't really see how it should matter that Europe was on ISDN when Broadband was rapidly expanding in North America. What matters is the current result and they have open-access net neutral networks with 'NO CAPS' and that is emphasized. The situation is much different here with a slow rollout of FTTH especially in Canada (only 170,000 homes connected and a measly 1.74% penetration rate). The network is not open access and there are 'CAPS' here. It's a different situation in Europe because they are 'Future ready' while Canada especially Ontario is in the slow lane on congested cable or VDSL (which is backwards compared to Asian VDSL or EU VDSL).

By the time FTTH is properly deployed like in South Korea / Lithuania / Sweden / Japan decades will go by and I doubt the situation with Rogers or Bell would change at all and open-access and caps. It's no wonder there are more ex-pats from Canada/US going elsewhere.

Satya

join:2011-09-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to Gone

You are missing the point. I am not saying I should get 24/7 150Mbps lol. What I am saying is if during peak times which might last several hours where I would like to download a few things and watch right away, I do not need to be throttled to 25-30Mbps and still pay 100+ dollars per month. That is severe traffic management. I could understand 50-60Mbps even but 25-30 no no no. Even when I get the teksavvy package for 300Gb atleast the throttling will not be that bad. NO ISP including rogers can offer 150 24-7 on a residential connection and I don't expect it either. But there should be a reasonable limit to how low the speeds can go during peak hours.


geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

said by Satya:

You are missing the point. I am not saying I should get 24/7 150Mbps lol. What I am saying is if during peak times which might last several hours where I would like to download a few things and watch right away, I do not need to be throttled to 25-30Mbps and still pay 100+ dollars per month. That is severe traffic management. I could understand 50-60Mbps even but 25-30 no no no. Even when I get the teksavvy package for 300Gb atleast the throttling will not be that bad. NO ISP including rogers can offer 150 24-7 on a residential connection and I don't expect it either. But there should be a reasonable limit to how low the speeds can go during peak hours.

AFAIK, there's no limit given, so why are you guessing that they'll push you down to 25 mbps? And even then, that's probably what you got right now. What's wrong with that?

darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON

The reason why TSI is going to charge $200+ for unlimited 150/10 is exactly that. It seems they won't be throttling even at prime time. All it will take is a small percentage of their overall customers maxing out 150 Mb downloads during primetime to push their bill to Rogers through the roof. Remember it is capacity based billing.

Companies charging a lot less for 150Mb service are going to spread that cost around all their customers or throttle.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by rednekcowboy:

I would much rather pay for a set speed and get the speed that I'm paying for 24/7 than pay for a crippled package and only receive the speed I'm paying for half the time.....but that's me and this is why it's good there's competition.

And herein lies the rub, because if you want a "set speed" that's guaranteed all the time, you should get an enterprise-grade connection with an SLA that guarantees that. Crying about occasional performance loss on a residential connection when it costs half of what you pay anywhere else is a little silly.

(though I'm not going to lie - I got miffed when my 30Mbit connection was dropping to 7Mbit at night due to node issues. I probably wouldn't if it dropped to 20 and cost half as much as what I pay now, though)

I never said anything about technical issues, though if they were constant, I would be pissed. I'm talking about deliberate traffic shaping/throttling/rate limiting/whatever you want to call it.

I also have 30 Mbps and I get that or a little above 24/7, which is the way it should be and what I'm paying for. I would never go for a package that would drop that to 15 Mbps for half a day though.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to FiberToTheX

said by FiberToTheX:

Bell and Rogers offer symmetrical FTTH but they are Incumbents which began deploying at a later period of time.

Actually Rogers - as well as Shaw and Cogeco - have all been deploying FTTH since the early 2000s. The difference is that they use their fibre for RFoG, and many people who have FTTH through a cable provider don't even know it because the service offerings are identical to what is offered over coax. I believe there's even some Rogers areas in the GTA that have been wired with fibre since the 90s. That's not a "later period of time" - that's the beginning. Any one of these companies could light up for GPON-specific services on their FTTH deployments any time they want, they just choose not to.

Bell though... I suspect that if they had gotten the chance to turn into an income trust with the feds not changing the rules in the middle of their transition, things would have been a lot different as far as how much money they would be willing to invest into their infrastructure. They're no worse than anyone else here in North America, but they aren't exactly noteworthy either.

Either way, the point is moot. North American providers for the most part blew their wad on deploying different pre-fibre technologies. Europeans did not, and in turn it was easier and cheaper to deploy fibre when they started to deploy new infrastructure. It takes time to earn a return on an investment. The fact that we all had multi-megabit connections in the 90s and early 2000s here in Southern Ontario is precisely why we don't have FTTH today. Those same European countries that have fibre now were using dialup and ISDN back then. Whether or not you chose to believe or acknowledge this reasoning is irrelevant. All that remains is that it will eventually happen, just not tomorrow.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to rednekcowboy

said by rednekcowboy:

I would never go for a package that would drop that to 15 Mbps for half a day though.

For half the price you might.

BrianON

join:2011-09-30
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to HTCC

As long as they are upfront about managing traffic during peak so users can make comparisons to other services I don't see a problem. It actually makes more sense for unlimited service than in effect throttling off peak by giving everybody lower speeds all the time.

A package with 150/10 off peak and 50/10 on peak likely is not much more expensive to provide than 50/10 all the time but can have some obvious advantages.


moffa

join:2007-10-14
Ajax, ON
reply to HTCC

Just wondering if it's local node congestion or if it's the ISP. I'm not sure how you would check though unless another neighbour had the same package on Rogers.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

Catering to the Chinese market is fine but they Operate in Canada, Which recognizes 2 languages as primary english and french and They Don't Provide Equal service,Discriminating against English Speaking folks, - i find this Disturbing.
Not to mention As a Company Alienating a market like that seems foolish.

If they're applying traffic management strategies to keep the cost down on the 150/10 tier, I think marketing strictly to Chinese communities would be a smart thing to do to keep capacity requirements low.

Also this is nothing new, there have been ISPs since the dial-up days that have marketed their services specifically towards certain ethnic communities.

HTCC

join:2013-03-18
Innisfil, ON
reply to moffa

From What I have been told from CIK and the Fast rates I'm getting since there upgrade - 120 Mbps down load and 9.25 upload - I do not think they are traffic shaping / traffic management


darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON

If they are not now then will they be once they gets lots of download crazy 150/10 customers who start getting busy in prime time?



Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:20

said by darrylr:

If they are not now then will they be once they gets lots of download crazy 150/10 customers who start getting busy in prime time?

The way cable works, they don't have to do any shaping themselves. They just have to delay ordering capacity upgrades from Rogers for as long as possible. The fact that HTCC is getting 120 on a 150 plan AFTER the upgrade is pretty good confirmation that they have no intention of offering full speed 24/7.

And please don't misunderstand, I don't think that is horrible. It sure would be nice if they'd be upfront about it like Acanac is though.
--
electronicsguru.ca


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

Catering to the Chinese market is fine but they Operate in Canada, Which recognizes 2 languages as primary english and french and They Don't Provide Equal service,Discriminating against English Speaking folks, - i find this Disturbing.
Not to mention As a Company Alienating a market like that seems foolish.

Mandarin will most likely supplant all secondary languages accross the globe and maybe one day surpass English in wide usage. Companies catering specifically to the rather large population of Chinese-Canadians is a wise business plan. There's other English/French ISPs out there.

Sanek

join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON
reply to HTCC

They have some nice plans, but the fact that I never really heard about them before and all the Chinese stuff is very worrying to me. My main concerns are:

1. There is barely any feedback as to the actual speeds being provided and their practices. Assuming they are on aggregated, wouldn't capacity concerns be up to Rogers? Throttling during the peak hours would be understandable, but I don't see them saying anything about that.

2. Support - it would really worry me if their support staff all spoke broken English. Again - not much feedback there.

Price is not everything after all...


darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON
reply to Teddy Boom

I agree it isn't a bad way to operate. It just explains why they can offer lower rates than some of the competition. People coming in and expecting to get the same quality of service 24/7 maybe are not going to be happy.



coldpower27

join:2004-02-07
Scarborough, ON
reply to HTCC

Well, $100 for Unlimited 150/10 is not bad at all, I will have to think about it. $40 for Unlimited $25/2 is also very nice when it does come online in GTA.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to HTCC

I asked 4 days ago about throttling, still waiting on an answer.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by elwoodblues:

I asked 4 days ago about throttling, still waiting on an answer.

They probably don't have a throttling policy per se, rather they probably only purchase x capacity from Rogers, and when that capacity is reached everyone slows down.

DFW

join:2013-03-23
North York, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·CIKTEL Telecom
reply to HTCC

Signed up with them for 25/10 DSL as of Thursday. Been reading these forums a long time and decided to register to review this ISP since there's not a lot of info out there. I'll wait a week or so before posting a review but here are some early impressions:

1. Language - during signup process, I spoke with two or three people on the phone. All spoke well and I had no difficulty understanding them. I also spoke with a tech on the installation date and, again, no problem understanding him. I think this is an overrated non issue.

2. Performance/congestion/throttling - don't know yet. I have tried to do speed tests at various times of the day but every time I detect a slow down (so far, for about an hour in late morning and just less than an hour between 9 and 10 pm), I find that a family member has been streaming while another downloading despite my request for a pause for the test. I'll have a better idea in a week but I can say that it has never gotten so slow that anyone noticed while surfing.

So far, so good. But it's too soon to judge congestion/throttling issues. I'll post a review when I have more data.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to HTCC

Does anyone have any experience with these guys on Cogeco's network?


Sanek

join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON
reply to HTCC

Anyone give their 150/10 plan a try?


Satya

join:2011-09-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to HTCC

redflagdeals has a lot of bad reviews about them..not going to even try with them for a cheaper price i will watch from outside the boundary.


HTCC

join:2013-03-18
Innisfil, ON
reply to Sanek

I have been using the CIK Telecom - 150M*/10M - Unlimited and Loving it.

No Problems and Fast speed