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signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

Vexing issue: Replacement video card...

About a month or so ago I came here talking about my GTS450 (EVGA) video card having artifacts (small sparkles and instability). I was given a Radeon card and have been using that until my replacement came, which came today.

With the Radeon card, no sparkles (HDMI full size connector). But with the replaced GTS450 card, I am getting the same sparkles as before. I have to use a micro HDMI connector adapter to connect on it, and I am wondering if that connector is suspect.

If I use VGA by using a DVI adapter, there's a lot of noise on the screen, but not so with the Radeon card.

I also wonder if it is the driver that is the problem...
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
Well, now my system crashes after installing the latest beta, so I've just installed a January version (older) to see what is happening, and using the DVI port with a VGA adapter. At first, the screen looked good, but now there is all that analogue noise again, but no artifacts.

Interestingly, the artifacts with this EVGA card are with the HDMI mini connector (Using HDMI regular to HDMI mini adapter). Could it be the adapter? And why does my system lock up with this card?

I wonder if they just sent my old card back to me, or if the card has the same problems somehow?
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.

NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to signmeuptoo
I know this is going to sound stupid, but have you checked to see whether your system's BIOS has had an update recently?

Driver conflict sounds likely based on what you describe but I would also check out the system BIOS too. Can't hurt to check it out.

NefCanuck


Dissembled

join:2008-01-23
Indianapolis, IN
reply to signmeuptoo
First thing I would do is run Drive Sweeper and then redownload the latest (non-beta) drivers.

After that, if still not fixed, I would go invest in a new set of cables. Preferably ones that do not require you to even use an adapter.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to NefCanuck
I've had the evga card for 8 months, the replacement for today. My motherboard is EOL, I updated BIOS back when I could. It was fine before all this. It is fine with the ATI card. I think they sent me back my old card, I have to check my emails to verify, in the middle of doing a system restore...
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to Dissembled
Using those cables with the ATI card and they are fine.

I have removed the EVGA card because it almost completely hosed Windows, I had to do a system restore.

I tried several different versions of the driver, beta, non beta, old versions, too.

I tried different power cable.

Just got off the phone with EVGA, something that is very odd: The old card and new card have nearly identical numbers, and with the old card I didn't have my magnifier so even though EVGA insists it is a different card, and insists that they have tested the previous card and this card, something's up.

I agreed to put the replacement card into my other system first just in case, they are sending me a return label and will send another card when they get this second one back.

It can't be the motherboard or SMPS, the motherboard and SMPS work fine with the ATI card and the 7850GT EVGA cards.

They gave me the third degree.

I'm going on about 4 hours sleep so I will test the offending card in my other system again tomorrow.

The one thing I wonder about is the HDMI to mini HDMI adapter, but even with the DVI to VGA adapter, it was crashing my system.

I Wonder, the problems started a few weeks after I changed to Windows 8 from 7. My other system has 7 on it.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to signmeuptoo
What is the make and model of your monitor? What kind of video inputs do you have on it?

BTW, I found that some ATI cards have exceptionally good analog (VGA) output, practically indistinguishable from DVI on some better monitors.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
HPw2338h, it was my father's. It's worked flawlessly for a few years. It only has VGA and HDMI, no DVI input.

I did put the suspect card in my other system before taking a nap that got interrupted by a wrong number dialer (seems to happen a lot lately). While napping I see that it BSOD'd. The other monitor uses DVI and can use VGA.

What I wonder is the manufacturer says that maybe the SMPS or motherboard is damaging the cards, so I agreed to test the next card in my other system first.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.

James_C

join:2007-08-03
Florence, KY
reply to signmeuptoo
It isn't likely to be the adapter, sparkles are usually due to defective memory chip(s), or their solder joints on the PCB (or excessive overclocking).

It is unlikely a BIOS or driver issue, and while there is a little more chance it is a power supply problem, that would more likely cause the card to run at reduced clockspeed or lockup without any sparkles.

It is probable the card either arrived defective or was damaged by ESD during handling/installation. When I send a component like that in for warranty replacement, I take a marker and put a little dot on it so I know if it was the same part returned.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to signmeuptoo
You should have no problem measuring the raw voltages to see if they are within spec. However, beyond that it's a bit tricky because you'd need a scope or some other equipment. However, since video cards get most of their power from the 12V lines, they have to have their own, onboard voltage regulators, so as long as the supply is capable supplying the needed current, the quality shouldn't matter that much. So unless your PS lets out some huge spikes or somesuch, I don't think the 'damaged by PS' is a likely scenario.

If you had BSOD, you may be able to figure out from the dump what was causing it, or at least narrow down the possibilities.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to signmeuptoo
I'm inclined to believe the problem you're experiencing is related to faulty memory on the EVGA card. You can test this if you want: see my last paragraph in this post. There is also EVGA's own memory tester which only works on EVGA cards (I have no experience with it).

Have you tried using something other than the micro-HDMI connector, to rule out idiocy going on there? Try temporarily using native DVI, even if you temporarily have to buy a long DVI cable and run it across the living room or something to that effect.

I know this isn't the time/place for opinions, but I stopped buying EVGA cards after repeated artefacting, even on cards which were RMA'd. A colleague of mine in Sweden also had the same experience I did. Since then, we've both pretty much both boycotted the company -- their failure rate is just too high; the US$20-30 cost savings in comparison to other companies isn't worth the risk.

There was a huge scuffle with EVGA some time ago where someone somewhere dug around and proclaimed that they were using memory modules that were "3rd class", which indicated the modules were functional but would emit soft errors intermittently (the results being visual artefacting) -- whether or not this is true I don't know, but given that I used to work a job building Sun workstations (particularly IPC/IPX) and had to become familiar with hardware memory testers + got familiar with soft vs. hard errors, the theory is plausible.

When considering a product, I always check out a company's Support forums first -- if they're filled repeatedly with the same type of complaint, I tend to avoid the vendor.

--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
I've been secretly thinking about this koitsu. This isn't the first time I've had to return an EVGA card. They gave me the third degree on the phone and insisted I was required to test the card on another system (I did), but what about folks that don't have another system? I got through with one guy, and he passed me off to another guy who continued to give me the third degree. They insisted that my computer is damaging the cards, but how can that be, if I've put two other cards in the same computer and both of them are working flawlessly?

I am flat broke, but I'll buy a cable when I can. But the offending card caused BSODs and F@H failures in my other system, using the DVI and another monitor. So I've tried the mini HDMI ~and~ the DVI in DVI and in VGA mode. On my main system the VGA via the DVI gives a very noisy crappy screen. On my main system the mini HDMI gives the sparkles. On my second system the DVI sees crashes as it does with the other two (all three ways both computers see computer failures).

What a crap week it's been...
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
It's possible a PSU could damage a video card, especially given how much power they draw/need these days (really? Two 12V connections? Days of slot-powered cards are coming to an end, sadly :-( ). It's hard to test for this sort of thing without a logging multimetre (some models of Fluke can do this) + leaving it hooked up to some solder points or rails indefinitely to see if there's very large spikes. I'd personally be hard-pressed to do that though, as I have a general fear of electricity. You probably know this stuff already though (you and aurgathor See Profile tend to be more hardware-oriented than I am).

Voltage-related problems on video cards absolutely can cause artefacting. As i understand it, this can happen as a result of the voltage dropping below tolerable ranges, which in turn affects the refresh cycles of the RAM on the card; suddenly those 1s become 0s, after the next video refresh/redraw, you end up seeing visual artefacts.

The Radeon-based card might not have this issue due to different circuitry -- capacitor sizes, voltage regulators, etc.. It's the only thing I can think of that might explain what's going on.

What saddens me the most about this situation: late last year I sold the spare nVidia GTX 560 Ti I had. If I still had it, I'd send it to you as a test card, just so you could troubleshoot/rule things out. But sadly right now I have no spare video cards (sans a very low-end (we're talking US$20) nVidia card with TurboCache or whatever (ugh), and is primarily a 2D card).

I don't know much about HDMI, but it's supposed to be more or less (barring HDCP) fully compatible with DVI. Unless of course there's some kind of HDCP compatibility issue going on, although from what I understand that manifests itself usually as "I get no video signal" not artefacting.

The part that confuses me/surprises me the most is that when you used a DVI-to-VGA adapter (which simply reroutes the analog R/G/B pins on the DVI connector (yes, DVI-I provides both digital and analog output!) to a classic DSub connector), you saw no artefacts but did see VGA noise (I imagine this means blurry/shimmery video, often the result of bad quality adapters, bad shielding on VGA cables, and (most of all) video resolution used). If you were using the same video resolution as with HDMI, then I can't explain what's going on here. If you used a different resolution with VGA than what you used with HDMI, then yes, I would say voltage or RAM issues are plausible.

If you have a spare PSU, you might try hooking that up to the system and see if the problem goes away.

I'd offer to try the video card myself (though you'd be without a video card for a few weeks), but I don't have any display devices that accept HDMI; my computer monitor does VGA and DVI, and my TV is a 13" Sony Wega with component, composite, and RF input which I use exclusively for my NES/Famicom.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
I will take this system over to BIL's since I no longer have a multimeter to take readings. Yes, the ATI card COULD load the supply less.

The Supply is a 750 watt rated Seventeam I got from Jonnyguru himself. Jonny did test it on a sunmoon I think years ago. I'm overdue for a new unit, but frankly, I can't even budget groceries very well right now, so a new SMPS is way down the ladder.

I don't suspect the SMPS, but I'm also wanting to look at every possibility.

The thought that the Seventeam would have become so weak that it couldn't support a low end gamer card and 3 HDs, I seriously doubt it. Especially when my 380-400(?) watt Corsair in the other system supports it, but the system BSODs eventually, without artifacts.

The only thing that I think it could be is high ripple current damaging it, but if that were the case, the CPU or at least the mainboard would be hosed by now since they are much older.

I think the odds are they did indeed send me a replacement that isn't any better and maybe my mini HDMI adapter is also a factor.

This is all so aggrivating, I've got a bunch of problems I am dealing with right now (my girl's health, work, my health, other things) and the last thing I need is this crap. When it rains, it pours.

I sure wish I still had a meter and a scope!
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
I could temporarily send you my Fluke 115 metre if it'd be of some help, but I definitely do not have an oscilloscope.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
Heh, thanks, but BIL has a meter and a scope, I'll bring the beast (what I call the computer) over to his place this weekend. Different softwares report different readings, one reports 14 volts on the 12V rail (a very old program, I don't trust it), other softwares, and BIOS show well within the 5% spec. Only way to know is to measure all the yellow 12V wires, the PEG connectors AND the mainboard connectors. I'll do that this weekend.

I think this Seventeam has 2 12V rails, but I don't know if they have separate regulation.

I used to have a Beckman true RMS meter. I used to have a really cool old Tektronix scope. Both are in TN along with my other former possessions, and heaven only knows if they are still there, heh.

Hold on to that Fluke, they're my favorite brand, BTW.

When I get out of school in a few years and have a real job again, I'm gonna get a good Fluke and a scope, it feels naked not having such stuff. I don't even have car tools any longer, I feel like some Manhattenite or something!

Just looked at meters and scopes on ebay. Some of those 1GHz scopes look very sweet!
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to signmeuptoo
Ok guys, this is really starting to drive me up a wall.

BIL came over a few days ago and he brought his meter and I read the voltages from my SMPS and they are fine, in fact, very good, on The Beast (the suspect system).

I ran Furmark for a day and a half on the Backup system with the suspect card, after removing the ATI drivers, and it was just fine, indicating that the card should be ok.

So I thought, gee, maybe I need to remove the ATI drivers from my Beast as that might be the problem? Ok, did that, and twice now the Windows 8 has had to reset explorer on me. Also, I left to work this morning at 5:xx AM and set my system to shut down, but the system won't shut down entirely. Screen goes blank, hard drive stops, but damned if the on light stays lit and the fans keep running. I came home this afternoon to that.

I don't know what the hell is going on with this system, but with the ATI card and the OLD 7850GT nVidia card, it runs just fine, but this 450GTS just keeps giving The Beast fits.

Are there some settings in BIOS to check? Voltages? I am not overclocking because of this.

I only have a couple weeks left to ship this back if it needs to, but frankly, I am starting to suspect The Beast has a borked OS or BIOS settings aren't good, or SOMETHING.

Please respond, I need some heads on this, please.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
Is this with the EVGA card? Try giving it a modest voltage bump. I have ran into several EVGA cards that are unstable at stock voltages, but didn't put 2 and 2 together until Darklogix mentioned something similar happening to him as well.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
How do I bump the voltage up, is that in a BIOS setting? Which value is it?


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
Use MSI Afterburner or EVGA E-LEET, either of them allow you to unlock voltage control.

Then run Furmark (it's embed within OCCT) or another graphics stress-test to ensure stability.

I had several EVGA cards that would crash under stress where the engine was using DX11. Upping the voltage probably would have fixed it.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
I am fed up. And I officially HATE windows 8. It is impossible to get the damned OS to load in safe mode, I've read how to do it, and it doesn't work. Now one of my important hard drives is hosed and I am having to use a restore point. I suspect that windows 8 is WHY the nVidia card isn't working right. I've tried for a month now to make it work. I've had it. I will not be buying another EVGA card and if I have to reinstall OS, I'm back to 7. 8 is a steaming pile of dog crap.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
That's why we continue to suggest Windows 7 in all current builds. It sucks you are having this issue.

Any help on the EVGA forum?
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
I haven't gone there, for one because I don't want anything that might be said affect warranty replacement, but also because quite frankly, I am at my whit's end now.

I am having a problem with a family member also, they are doing something very selfish and unreasonable and taking advantage of me. They are virtually rich, I am poor, and the issues is the rich taking more and more (I Jerry-fixed a computer he abandoned a year and a half ago, and now he is demanding it back, and doesn't want to give me anything for the fix or the parts, as a result, I'm spending Easter alone).

Ah well. Something good is around the corner I think...
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.